Our obligation to accept scientific knowledge as truth

Our obligation to accept scientific knowledge as truth

Christian traditionalists believe the Bible is factually inerrant, therefore rejecting facts inferred through empirical means that contradict their (presumably literal) understanding of Scripture. However, it looks like the entire space of scientific knowledge they're rejecting concerns specific events in the past (i.e., Creation) or in the future (the end times). In other words, it appears that Christrian traditionalism is concerned with particular consequences more so than the structure of empirical models.

I'm not so sure I see a problem with this. A model where cryptic divine creation and apocolypse buffet an otherwise empirically understandable reality is certainly less parsimonious than a materialist view, but it doesn't obviously lack anything in the way of predictive or explanatory power.

Keep the faith 🤘

Originally posted by whirlysplat
Our obligation to accept scientific knowledge as truth

Christian traditionalists believe the Bible is factually inerrant, therefore rejecting facts inferred through empirical means that contradict their (presumably literal) understanding of Scripture. However, it looks like the entire space of scientific knowledge they're rejecting concerns specific events in the past (i.e., Creation) or in the future (the end times). In other words, it appears that Christrian traditionalism is concerned with particular consequences more so than the structure of empirical models.

I'm not so sure I see a problem with this. A model where cryptic divine creation and apocolypse buffet an otherwise empirically understandable reality is certainly less parsimonious than a materialist view, but it doesn't obviously lack anything in the way of predictive or explanatory power.

Keep the faith 🤘

😕 Please repeat it slowly.

In essence the only science that the bible says is wrong is creation and doomsday, apart from the odd abberation in between the rest is fine with Christian fundamentalists.

🙂

odd aberrations like giant floods, talking snakes, dragons, angels, talking bushes...

Originally posted by Tex
odd aberrations like giant floods, talking snakes, dragons, angels, talking bushes...

😄

I <3 Tex...........

let us not forget men being eaten by giant fish and living inside...........men walking on water, turning water into wine........etc.

Originally posted by whirlysplat
In essence the only science that the bible says is wrong is creation and doomsday, apart from the odd abberation in between the rest is fine with Christian fundamentalists.

🙂

We believe that everything in the Bible is the truth because it is the word of God and inspired by God. So We do not need science to proof what we already know in our hearts.

Then why were only 4 gospels picked out of over 100 texts??? They all claimed to be the word of God.

None of these things impinge on scientific knowledge 😄 Its not against the bible you see 😄 except in thee cases I menteioned 😄

Originally posted by debbiejo
Then why were only 4 gospels picked out of over 100 texts??? They all claimed to be the word of God.

All the books in the Bible were chosen according to specefic criteria to make sure that they fit together and are true to the rest of the books. Many books that were left out was because the authers were not know, were not close to the apostles or disciples or did not know them, some books clearly shown that the authors did not live in that centuary so they could not be trustworthy. Some of the books contradicted Jesus' teachings and the 4 gospels. And as Matt, luke James and John were close to Jesus and with him all of the time they were chosen to be the most correct portrait of Jesus and his teachings. If you met a person only once or he knew a friend of yours, and this person then wrote a biography of your life would you trust that it would be a accurate portrait of you or would you entrust this to someone close to you?

There were other writings by James, Thomas, and Paul...Why weren't those included as well?

All the books in the Bible were chosen according to specefic criteria to make sure that they fit together and are true to the rest of the books.

Yes, and the point about his divinity was debated a few hundred years later at the council of ???, I forget the name, but at that council is when it was decided BY A GROUP OF ROMAN CATHOLIC MEN, that Jesus was indeed God.

Study the the original documents of the church. This isn't a secret.

Why did the Roman church chose to wipe out the other beliefs? Why the Jewish 1st century CE: There were at least three distinct divisions within the Christian movement: the Jewish Christians (led by Jesus' brother James, with Jesus' disciples, and their followers), Pauline Christians (followers of St. Paul) and Gnostic Christians (people who believed that salvation came through secret knowledge). Each believed themselves to be the true church, and were highly critical of the other two.
4th century CE: The Roman Emperor Theodosian issued a series of decrees to "suppress all rival religions, order the closing of the temples, and impose fines, confiscation, imprisonment or death upon any who cling to the older [Pagan] religions." 2 The church used the power of the state to begin programs to oppress, exile or exterminate both Pagans and Gnostic Christians. Church authority had became concentrated in the five bishops or patriarchs located in Alexandria, Antioch, Constantinople, Jerusalem and Rome. Although they were officially given equal status, the Bishop of Rome was considered the first among the equals. 3
6th century CE: Only Pauline Christianity had survived in the Mediterranean area, in the form of a deeply divided Catholic church. Gnostic Christianity had been suppressed; Jewish Christianity had died out. There were independent Christian groups in Egypt, India and elsewhere which were not part of Catholicism.
1054 CE: The great schism formally divided Christendom into two main groups: Roman Catholicism in western Europe, and the Eastern Orthodox churches in the east.
1517 CE: Martin Luther triggered the Protestant Reformation.
16th century to the present time: Protestantism fragmented into more than a dozen families of denominations, and thousands of individual faith groups -- over 1,000 in North America alone.

Why was the church willing to persecute the Jewish Christians and the Gnostic Christians??? Would God set up mere men to dictate His authority? Is this church practicing what Jesus taught? This church started with repression, persecution, and other evils...THIS CHURCH HAD AN AGENDA.

Originally posted by debbiejo
There were other writings by James, Thomas, and Paul...Why weren't those included as well?

If I wrote a book about your life and I did not mention the theme of all your birthday parties you had as a child or certain things that happened at school does it mean that the book is false, or did I merely chose the most important material and tried not to have a duplication of events
that might have happened more than once. This is very much what happened here.

This is very much what happened here.

Originally posted by sonnet
If I wrote a book about your life and I did not mention the theme of all your birthday parties you had as a child or certain things that happened at school does it mean that the book is false, or did I merely chose the most important material and tried not to have a duplication of events
that might have happened more than once. This is very much what happened here.

Well, if it was my book, I'd say put it all in, and don't leave anything out...I have such an interesting life. 😄

There are ulterior reasons why certain books we left out...Why not just include them all...

On a scientific note:
Genesis really doesn't contradict with the scientific understanding of creation. It is merely the literalist sects of Christianity that refuse to accept anything other than the Bible as strict fact who ardently believe that that creation took 7 days.

Current science (quantum physics and whatnot) is beginning to reaffirm the presence of, if not divine, then at least intelligent design by some higher being. We have been able to calculate the approximate mass of the entire universe, and in doing so realized how unlikely it would be for us to even exist. During the big bang, if the mass of the universe had been 'off' one direction or another by 0.000...6% (60 zeros before the 6) we would have either had too much mass, and the universe would have collapsed back in on itself, or we wouldn't have had enough mass for the energy to slow down enough to form into planets and stars and such. A cosmic calculation that is so finely tuned for producing not just life, but matter at all, suggests some higher intervention...which doesn't necesarily endorse any one religion, but certainly isn't at odds with many religions.

Attempts have also been made to determine the probability of life forming as it exists on Earth. Any studies done in this field all suggest that the universe hasn't been around for long enough to reasonably assume that even simple single-celled organisms and strains of amino acids should have been able to form...let alone complex organisms and creatures as complicated as human beings. Such complexification of life over a relatively short amount of time (even though billions of years seems long to us) blatently suggests some sort of intelligent design.

If need be, I can produce more specific examples of where I am getting this data from. But that is mostly just to let you know that I'm not making these things up and have researched this before speaking on it.

And of the non-included books of the Bible...I agree that it seems rather arbitrary and the decisions of a group of men back in the 4th century should not be entirely trusted, but that, in and of itself, does not discredit the existing books of the Bible. Perhaps it merely suggests that the information they wish to convey is in some way incomplete or flawed. To suggest that they have little or no value (which no one has yet done on this thread...so I'm not accusing) would also be discrediting many religions, as there are more themes, stories, and rules in common between many of the major religions than most people realize.

To use an example, one need not believe in the divinity of Jesus to accept the message of Jesus' life. It is an important distinction, and one that may still lend some credence to a religion such as Christianity that has such a spotty and controversial history...including, but not limited to, the inclusion of only certain books for use in the Bible.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
On a scientific note:
Current science (quantum physics and whatnot) is beginning to reaffirm the presence of, if not divine, then at least intelligent design by some higher being. We have been able to calculate the approximate mass of the entire universe, and in doing so realized how unlikely it would be for us to even exist. During the big bang, if the mass of the universe had been 'off' one direction or another by 0.000...6% (60 zeros before the 6) we would have either had too much mass, and the universe would have collapsed back in on itself, or we wouldn't have had enough mass for the energy to slow down enough to form into planets and stars and such. A cosmic calculation that is so finely tuned for producing not just life, but matter at all, suggests some higher intervention...which doesn't necesarily endorse any one religion, but certainly isn't at odds with many religions.

Attempts have also been made to determine the probability of life forming as it exists on Earth. Any studies done in this field all suggest that the universe hasn't been around for long enough to reasonably assume that even simple single-celled organisms and strains of amino acids should have been able to form...let alone complex organisms and creatures as complicated as human beings. Such complexification of life over a relatively short amount of time (even though billions of years seems long to us) blatently suggests some sort of intelligent design.

If need be, I can produce more specific examples of where I am getting this data from. But that is mostly just to let you know that I'm not making these things up and have researched this before speaking on it.

Yes, yes yes....I totally agree....Any Atheists listening????

It would also be great if you gave some other examples too....Ya gotta help all those atheists ya know.