Originally posted by Bluesteel
Ok people, whoever says Ali would even stand a chance needs to watch the Randy Couture vs James Toney fight. That is what happens when those boxers try to go head to head with a powerful martial artist.Its a no contest show. Ali tried to kick he will already have stepped over to uncharted territory and Lee would punish him severly. He sticks to his punching and hes already got a sever handicap. There is just no way a boxer has enough to work with against a guy like Bruce.
Crosstraining is an ancient concept; however, "complete" fighters are a fairly recent(or at least recently revived) phenomenon.
Originally posted by MRasheed
No, Bruce Lee really was a great fighter/martial artist. He was the real thing and the father of MMA. He was also an actor.
A great fighter will little fight record and questionable of who he fought against. He wasn't "the father" of MMA, it was around before him, he might have brought it into the light more due to his movie-star status, arguably.
I'm a Bruce Lee fanboy too, but get Bruce out of your ass, will ya.
Originally posted by MRasheed
Robtard it's prtetty clear you don't know anything about Bruce Lee. What kind of fan are you supposed to be exactly?What mixed martial arts was going on in the '60s? They barely knew anything about karate.
LoL. I've forgotten more about Bruce Lee than you'll ever know, going from your post.
Epic fail, bro. Pankration(strikes, grappling, submissions etc), for one. Was round 2,500+ years before Bruce Lee. Learn something.
Who are you referring to with "they"?
Originally posted by Robtard
LoL. I've forgotten more about Bruce Lee than you'll ever know, going from your post.
I was just thinking that about you.
Originally posted by Robtard
Epic fail, bro. Pankration(strikes, grappling, submissions etc), for one. Was round 2,500+ years before Bruce Lee. Learn something.
And that was going on in the '60s? Where?
Originally posted by MRasheed
I was just thinking that about you.And that was going on in the '60s? Where?
A "no you!" response, brilliant.
Various schools, Pankration isn't some newly re-discovered dead discipline. It grew in popularity in the late 60's or early 70's and became more well known. Which again, could be argued that Bruce Lee had something to do with MMA becoming more popular. But "the father of MMA", not by a long-shot.
Sambo is another MMA that was around before Bruce Lee. The Soviets implemented it as part of their military training in the 20's.
Who were you referring to with your "They barely knew anything about Karate" comment?
Originally posted by Robtard
Matt Hughes ****ed him up. Granted, Royce wasn't in his prime, but the fight wouldn't have gone much differently had he been.
Originally posted by MRasheed
Robtard it's prtetty clear you don't know anything about Bruce Lee. What kind of fan are you supposed to be exactly?What mixed martial arts was going on in the '60s? They barely knew anything about karate.
MMA, in its current form, wasn't around; however, Bruce is hardly responsible for its rise.
Originally posted by Robtard
Various schools, Pankration isn't some newly re-discovered dead discipline. It grew in popularity in the late 60's or early 70's and became more well known. Which again, could be argued that Bruce Lee had something to do with MMA becoming more popular. But "the father of MMA", not by a long-shot.
Originally posted by Robtard
A "no you!" response, brilliant.
And your "...get Bruce out of your ass" line was supposed to make you a genius? I'm trying to just have a regular discussion, and you start off as an @sshole. So now it's up to you to reveal something actually 'brilliant,' Robert the 'tard.
Originally posted by Robtard
Various schools, Pankration isn't some newly re-discovered dead discipline. It grew in popularity in the late 60's or early 70's and became more well known.
There were pankration schools before Lee got popular? Where?
Originally posted by Robtard
Which again, could be argued that Bruce Lee had something to do with MMA becoming more popular.
"Again?" Are you back-tracking again?
Originally posted by Robtard
But "the father of MMA", not by a long-shot.
Bruce is the first modern fighter to incorporate the types of training currently done in MMA circles, including one-on-one sparing. His incorporating physical conditioning to a martial artist's training also inspired the new school.
Originally posted by Robtard
Sambo is another MMA that was around before Bruce Lee. The Soviets implemented it as part of their military training in the 20's.
Were Americans doing it, or even aware of it, in the '60s?
Originally posted by Robtard
Who were you referring to with your "They barely knew anything about Karate" comment?
It was a flip, sarcastic, exaggerated comment that was not meant seriously. Try focusing on the real parts of the conversation, 'tard.
Originally posted by MRasheed
And your "...get Bruce out of your ass" line was supposed to make you a genius? I'm trying to just have a regular discussion, and you start off as an @sshole. So now it's up to you to reveal something actually 'brilliant,' Robert the 'tard.There were pankration schools before Lee got popular? Where?
"Again?" Are you back-tracking again?
Bruce is the first modern fighter to incorporate the types of training currently done in MMA circles, including one-on-one sparing. His incorporating physical conditioning to a martial artist's training also inspired the new school.
Were Americans doing it, or even aware of it, in the '60s?
It was a flip, sarcastic, exaggerated comment that was not meant seriously. Try focusing on the real parts of the conversation, 'tard.
The "Bruce out of your ass" was humor, you sensitive girl.
Jim Arvanitis (a Greek American) for one started practicing it in the 50's and he's noted for making (of helping) it to be better known in the US by "inventing" his own form of it. I'd imagine there were schools in Greece too, as I said, it didn't completely die and then come back somehow.
Back tracking again? Fail. My first post to you I said: "He[Bruce] wasn't "the father" of MMA, it was around before him, he might have brought it[MMA]into the light more due to his movie-star status, arguably."
Yeah, no. Cross-training is various disciplines was around before Bruce. He's no "MMA father."
LoL, so now that you've got no argument and it's clear you can't wiggle out, you move the goal-post to "Americans doing it." EPIC FAIL. You claimed Bruce Lee 'fathered MMA'; he clearly didn't, MMA goes back long before Bruce Lee, accept it and move on. I do realize you've now read the Wiki on MMA and are trying to know move the topic to a "In the West/US" argument concerning Bruce.
Na, you just said something that you hoped no one would call you on it.
Originally posted by Robtard
The "Bruce out of your ass" was humor, you sensitive girl.
That kind of insulting "humor" that came out of no where, clearly showed you got sentitive about something said maybe over in the Religion Forum.
Let's just agree to keep it civil and keep your lame @ss "humor" to yourself.
Originally posted by Robtard
Jim Arvanitis (a Greek American) for one started practicing it in the 50's and he's noted for making (of helping) it to be better known in the US by "inventing" his own form of it. I'd imagine there were schools in Greece too, as I said, it didn't completely die and then come back somehow.
So other than you and his mom, who else knew about this guy in the '60s martial art community? Are you officially entering his name as a possible father of MMA over Bruce?
Originally posted by Robtard
Back tracking again? Fail. My first post to you I said: "He[Bruce] wasn't "the father" of MMA, it was around before him, he might have brought it[MMA]into the light more due to his movie-star status, arguably."
Alright, I'll take back the "back-tracking" comment. You're still an @sshole though. 😎
Originally posted by Robtard
Yeah, no. Cross-training is various disciplines was around before Bruce. He's no "MMA father."
To the degree it's done today?
Originally posted by Robtard
LoL, so now that you've got no argument and it's clear you can't wiggle out, you move the goal-post to "Americans doing it." EPIC FAIL. You claimed Bruce Lee 'fathered MMA'; he clearly didn't, MMA goes back long before Bruce Lee, accept it and move on.
Even though the karate comment was meant as a throwaway gag, it still reflected the fact that most Americans weren't into martial arts yet to the degree they would later become (the average American thought 'karate' was a chop across the neck). It wasn't cool yet. And I was talking about America in the 1960s in the first place.
Originally posted by Robtard
Na, you just said something that you hoped no one would call you on it.
Nope, not true. You can tell by the way I said it it was just a throwaway gag...
...well, not you, of course, who obviously had a problem with it. Someone else who isn't a 'tard.
Originally posted by MRasheed
That kind of insulting "humor" that came out of no where, clearly showed you got sentitive about something said maybe over in the Religion Forum.Let's just agree to keep it civil and keep your lame @ss "humor" to yourself.
So other than you and his mom, who else knew about this guy in the '60s martial art community? Are you officially entering his name as a possible father of MMA over Bruce?
Alright, I'll take back the "back-tracking" comment. You're still an @sshole though. 😎
To the degree it's done today?
Even though the karate comment was meant as a throwaway gag, it still reflected the fact that most Americans weren't into martial arts yet to the degree they would later become (the average American thought 'karate' was a chop across the neck). It wasn't cool yet. And I was talking about America in the 1960s in the first place.
Nope, not true. You can tell by the way I said it it was just a throwaway gag...
...well, not you, of course, who obviously had a problem with it. Someone else who isn't a 'tard.
Oh, my, yet even more "tard" comments and goal-post moving. Super.
Read up on MMA and martial arts if you actually want to learn. I love Bruce's movies too, but you know, they're films.
And no, I'm obviously not saying Arvanitis is the father of MMA, as I clearly have said MMA has been around for 2+ thousand years at least, genius. I don't know who the "father of MMA" was, probably some Neanderthal that first punched and choked out another. But Bruce Lee didn't "father" it, he popularized it, if anything.
Originally posted by Robtard
Oh, my, yet even more "tard" comments and goal-post moving. Super.
Humor. 😄 Stop bein' a girl about it.
Originally posted by Robtard
Read up on MMA and martial arts if you actually want to learn. I love Bruce's movies too, but you know, they're films.
Why would a Muhammad Ali versus Bruce Lee thread mean a boxer versus an actor? Bruce may not have been fond or even interested in official tournament fighting, but he was a real life close combat fighter.
He used to teach close combat before his star rose.
Originally posted by Robtard
And no, I'm obviously not saying Arvanitis is the father of MMA, as I clearly have said MMA has been around for 2+ thousand years at least, genius. I don't know who the "father of MMA" was, probably some Neanderthal that first punched and choked out another. But Bruce Lee didn't "father" it, he popularized it, if anything.
He's the father of it in the modern way it is practiced. His popularization was the birth of it in modern times.
Originally posted by MRasheed
Humor. 😄 Stop bein' a girl about it.Why would a Muhammad Ali versus Bruce Lee thread mean a boxer versus an actor? Bruce may not have been fond or even interested in official tournament fighting, but he was a real life close combat fighter.
He used to teach close combat before his star rose.He's the father of it in the modern way it is practiced. His popularization was the birth of it in modern times.
Because Bruce was an actor. While he was also a trained martial artist, the hype around him being able to kick anyone's ass comes from his acting/movies. Jean-Claude Van Damme is also a Martial Artist, but yet again the ass-kickery surrounding him comes from his screen-feats. Though Van Damme actually has a decent fight record, compared to Bruce's.
Back-tracking eh, now it's "modern"? Anyhow, I'd also argue how modern we're talking. MMA as it is now in the US started becoming huge/popular when Dana White was hired as President of the UFC and changed it from a freak-show to an actual sport. But this is arguable.
well like, I don't think you can argue that Lee had a major effect popularizing MA in America. I think he tended to potray a very "orientalized" image of eastern MA to a culture that eats that mystic stuff up (be like water...) rather than providing any major revolution in the way martial arts were practiced. I don't know my facts absolutly, but wasn't he one of the first to set up dojos that would teach "whites", or is that just mythology?
anyways, ya, hes elvis. Swung his hips and people thought he invented dancing.