Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
If Ali lands a punch, stick a fork in Bruce, because he's done.However, we know that won't be easy and Bruce has power, speed and more available moves. I doubt he can overwhelm Ali with power but Ali CAN be caught off guard.
-AC
Most of Ali's available moves are useless in combat and I think between us we have proved Bruce had very little available power.
Anyone can be caught off guard but Bruce is a lightweight I doubt his strikes would mean much to Ali.
Most of Ali's available moves are useless in combat and I think between us we have proved Bruce had very little available power.
Anyone can be caught off guard but Bruce is a lightweight I doubt his strikes would mean much to Ali.
very little power? are U NUTS? HE HAD MORE POWER IN A SINGLE KICK THAN A MAN MORE THAN TWICE HIS SIZE AND BODY WEIGHT, HE ONCE KICKED AND BROUGHT down krim abdul jabbar who was an extremely well built basketball player and martial artist and was over 7 feet tall, with a single kick!!, not only that but any of the jeet kundo students who studies from bruce had to wear a chestplate before recieveing a kick from himn and even then they thought that bruce KILLED them each time they recieved a kick from the guy, also bruce brought down the martal arts world champion of the time with a punch that travelled only 1 inch. bruce had a lot of power, it just wasnt apparent because of his fugure.
Originally posted by leonheartmm
very little power? are U NUTS? HE HAD MORE POWER IN A SINGLE KICK THAN A MAN MORE THAN TWICE HIS SIZE AND BODY WEIGHT, HE ONCE KICKED AND BROUGHT down krim abdul jabbar who was an extremely well built basketball player and martial artist and was over 7 feet tall, with a single kick!!, not only that but any of the jeet kundo students who studies from bruce had to wear a chestplate before recieveing a kick from himn and even then they thought that bruce KILLED them each time they recieved a kick from the guy, also bruce brought down the martal arts world champion of the time with a punch that travelled only 1 inch. bruce had a lot of power, it just wasnt apparent because of his fugure.
😑
Read back we have what he lifted and the power of a martial arts strike. You usually rad a thread leon and are better researched than that mate.
Originally posted by leonheartmm
Most of Ali's available moves are useless in combat and I think between us we have proved Bruce had very little available power.
Anyone can be caught off guard but Bruce is a lightweight I doubt his strikes would mean much to Ali.very little power? are U NUTS? HE HAD MORE POWER IN A SINGLE KICK THAN A MAN MORE THAN TWICE HIS SIZE AND BODY WEIGHT, HE ONCE KICKED AND BROUGHT down krim abdul jabbar who was an extremely well built basketball player and martial artist and was over 7 feet tall, with a single kick!!, not only that but any of the jeet kundo students who studies from bruce had to wear a chestplate before recieveing a kick from himn and even then they thought that bruce KILLED them each time they recieved a kick from the guy, also bruce brought down the martal arts world champion of the time with a punch that travelled only 1 inch. bruce had a lot of power, it just wasnt apparent because of his fugure.
hmm so this is nothing ok, good argument there you have me beat 😄
Originally posted by whirlysplat
Of course a very small man would beat the champion of the world. Martial arts punching has no power, it can break boards but its actual force is limited. Lees kicking reach is probably less than Ali's reach and Ali has 40 odd pounds on him at least.Problems with martial arts strikes. Most people think because boxers don't break boards that they do not hit as hard.
A martial artist will tell you that 4 elements are involved
1) Equilibrium (Balance)
2) Breath Control
3) Reaction Force
4) Concentration
To translate that in to the real world we need Science 😄
Physics 101 coming up
Force = Mass x Velocity2
In other words, force is accumulated in the form of speed, and at the end of the movement, speed is converted into striking force.
But were does the fourth element (concentration) come into play?
The concentration aspect of power, is not one of mind, but of area. As we concentrate that force into a smaller area, the power is increases proportionately. It is like putting a small nozzle on a garden hose... the stream of water exiting the hole is much more powerful than if we just let the water flow without. OR if you look at it from the other direction... a 200lb man standing on thin ice wearing skis... He does not fall through the ice because his weight is dispersed over a large area..
And finally the element called "Reaction Force"
Reaction Force is a very important factor in two ways... In the first way Velocity is affected. i.e. If a car traveling 50mph crashes head on into another car traveling 50 mph, the combined velocity is 100mph. Same is true with a punch or kick... If your opponent is moving in on you when you through your punch, the speed of the punch increased due to the advancement of your aggressor. This is good to know, but reaction force plays an even greater role in our power.
Newton's Law states, "For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction". In the martial arts, we are constantly retracting one hand to our belt as we send the other one out in a punch. The resulting reaction-force is passed on through the body and arm to the striking hand. In an even more complex fashion, when the hand actually strikes the target, the shock of the blow is passed through the body to the legs to the floor and then is reversed back to the punching hand, adding further force to the blow.
So often in the arts you hear, that size doesn't matter. We demonstrate this with a little person throwing a big person to the ground. But does size matter in breaking? It is my opinion that YES it does, but it can be overcome with the increased speed that smaller people often poses.
The faster you punch, the smaller the area you make contact with, and how fast you pull that hand back after the strike, are bigger factors in the break than size or "Mass".
So Why don't Boxers break Boards? In Mr Lees own immortal words
"Boards do not fight back"Of course, the best boxers can punch as quickly and powerfully as any black belt. Why can't they break concrete blocks too? The answer lies in the nature of their punches. When a boxer throws his fist, he usually ends the movement with follow-through. This gives the punch maximum momentum (golf and tennis players follow through for the same reason), and it can help knock an opponent down. But the impact itself is diffuse: It's meant to jar an opponent's brain, not break a board.
So why are martial arts strikes crap?
Solid as they seem, all materials are at least slightly elastic. Whack them in the right spot and they will start to oscillate. A punch with a follow-through would dampen such oscillations, but a karate chop, by pulling away at the last moment, lets them move freely. If you tweak a rubber band it goes up and down, and the same is true if you tweak a board or a brick with a much greater force. When they reach their elastic limits, they start to yield. In other words, they break.
Fortunately for most of us, reaching that limit in bones is no easy matter. Bone can withstand 40 times more force than concrete, and a cylinder of bone less than an inch in diameter and 21Ú3 inches long can withstand a force of more than 25,000 newtons. Hands and feet can withstand even more than that, because their skin, muscles, ligaments, tendons, and cartilage absorb a great deal of impact. As a result, a well-kicked foot can absorb about 2,000 times as much force as concrete before breaking.
So Martial artists strikes are effective at Breaking boards but to break bones you need force (unless your very lucky) a martial arts strike simply cannot deliver.
However the momentum from a Boxers punch which actually generates more force. if you wish I will explain why in another post.
For this reason alone Ali will knock Lees block off 😆
I hope this ends the Argument to everyones satisfaction 😄
Keep the faith 🤘
Stay Whirly 🙂
Hmm Mr Smiley posted these misconception Alpha Centurai
Originally posted by mr.smiley
here's a cool link.Not about the two fighting,but just about Lee misconceptions
http://www.myodynamics.com/articles/bruce.html These must be nothing as well and sho we all know nothing where of course you have produced copius evidence 😄 beyond a position without any evidence to support it. Please read back through the thread, before making just a statement😄
ali would win he is a straight puncher but if bruce kicked him i do think that it will hurt ali but not much but really ali weighed about 221 lbs and how much did lee weigh about 120 and i dont thank that it will hurt him much but yeah lee would get a few good KICKS in no puches at all and ali hit him hes down i mean 221 lbs of pure muscle hitting him hes either dead or paralyzed and i aint kiddin
That's all nice and everything Whirly, I can attest to alot of it being a martial artist myself.
However, how much of literal physics do you think will come into play in an Ali Vs Lee fight?
Let's be realistic. If the two met in the ring, all of your "Look how pseudo-smart I am" post would go out of the window.
If Ali cracks Lee around the head, it's done and over.
Lee has alot more at his disposal and admittedly it's probably not gonna trouble Ali THAT much, but Lee has enough power in him to win the fight.
Anyone who studied the man (me) can clearly see that.
So to reiterate, anyone who claims Lee has very little power, knows nothing.
This is fun, this.
-AC
Bone has 40 times the resilience that brick has due to its elastic point, and I have a couple of black belts myself 😄 which means little in an argument like this. Its not really "fun" as we provide evidence Smiley, myself and the others who argue Ali and everyone else who argues Lee, says Bruce Lee "because he can do this" (because he said so). Its not pseudo smart, its science fact. I am no longer posting on this thread as its not even a debate. Its just silly now. Until people start providing hard evidence to counter anything in the two posts above. I'm out of this 😄
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
That's all nice and everything Whirly, I can attest to alot of it being a martial artist myself.However, how much of literal physics do you think will come into play in an Ali Vs Lee fight?
Let's be realistic. If the two met in the ring, all of your "Look how pseudo-smart I am" post would go out of the window.
If Ali cracks Lee around the head, it's done and over.
Lee has alot more at his disposal and admittedly it's probably not gonna trouble Ali THAT much, but Lee has enough power in him to win the fight.
Anyone who studied the man (me) can clearly see that.
So to reiterate, anyone who claims Lee has very little power, knows nothing.
This is fun, this.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
If Ali lands a punch, stick a fork in Bruce, because he's done.However, we know that won't be easy and Bruce has power, speed and more available moves. I doubt he can overwhelm Ali with power but Ali CAN be caught off guard.
-AC
😆 😆 😆
This fight goes nothing like this.
Originally posted by leonheartmm
Most of Ali's available moves are useless in combat and I think between us we have proved Bruce had very little available power.
Anyone can be caught off guard but Bruce is a lightweight I doubt his strikes would mean much to Ali.very little power? are U NUTS? HE HAD MORE POWER IN A SINGLE KICK THAN A MAN MORE THAN TWICE HIS SIZE AND BODY WEIGHT, HE ONCE KICKED AND BROUGHT down krim abdul jabbar who was an extremely well built basketball player and martial artist and was over 7 feet tall, with a single kick!!, not only that but any of the jeet kundo students who studies from bruce had to wear a chestplate before recieveing a kick from himn and even then they thought that bruce each time they recieved a kick from the guy, also bruce brought down the martal arts world champion of the time with a punch that travelled only 1 inch. bruce had a lot of power, it just wasnt apparent because of his fugure.
Guess you didn't go to the link.
Originally posted by whirlysplat
Bone has 40 times the resilience that brick has due to its elastic point, and I have a couple of black belts myself 😄 which means little in an argument like this. Its not really "fun" as we provide evidence Smiley, myself and the others who argue Ali and everyone else who argues Lee, says Bruce Lee "because he can do this" (because he said so). Its not pseudo smart, its science fact. I am no longer posting on this thread as its not even a debate. Its just silly now. Until people start providing hard evidence to counter anything in the two posts above. I'm out of this 😄
I see where your coming from Whirly.Lee supporters are more based on fandom (like i said,one guy realy thought Lee could have beat the Hulk) and Ali fans are based more on fact.