All Yoda's Fault.....

Originally posted by Lazerlike42
Indeed. Had Qui-Gon trained Anikan, he would have been there for the boy. As much as Obi-Wan was and was close to him, everything in his training was about dogma and rules. Neither he nor Yoda nor Mace paid any attention to Anikan's feelings. That's not to say that his feelings should take place over the responsibility of being a Jedi, but the fact remains he is human and humans have feelings. Qui-Gon would have been someone to go to for Anikan, and would have taught him how to control himself better. His feelings would have been tended to while still taking second place to the way of the Jedi.

This is the reason that when we see Luke being trained, Yoda and Obi-Wan pay more attention to his feelings (while not obsessing over them). They also warn him left and right about the dark side, whereas it seems in the time of ROTS nobody talks about it and the young padawans are left in a position where any one of them would easily succumb to temptation as they have not been warned. The reason Yoda and Obi-Wan behave differently is because Qui-Gon has been training them in these ways for 20 years, and this is why Luke is able to resist Palpatine.

Okay. This is real simple. Its not Padme's falut or Obi's or Yoda's or Mace's or Qui Gon or any body like that. I think we can all agree it's palpatine's falut! If he didn't want to rule the galaxy none of this would have happened! Every thing would go on just as it had for centurys. every bad thing that happens in Star Wars is all Palpetine's fault. Just think about it! 😄 😄

mysterio69 (why qui-gon? if you were him and tested a little kid's midi-blah-blah count and he had even more than yoda, would you just say, "meh" and leave him there?)

Lazerlike42 (Qui-gon was the only Jedi left that was in-tune with the force and acting according to it's will. The rest of the Jedi were straying away from the ideals of the Jedi and becoming more political and dogmatic than anything. Yoda and Mace Windu are very much to blame, just as much as the rest of the council. They did not see the dark side rising and were duped by Palpatine because they were being politicians, not being Jedi. That is why Qui-gon was not on the council and often ignored them, because he was following the force and not them.
That is why Yoda becomes Qui-gon's apprentice at the end of the film; Qui-gon instructs Yoda and helps him to go back to the correct ways.)

Rogue (Jediwhat? qui gon, had he lived, would have been the perfect master for annie. in my opinion, annie should have never been trained. he was, so thats that. but, i think the job should have fell upon yoda or mace windu to train him.)
You can't blame Yoda he and Mace said Anikan shouldn't be trained and if Yoda or Mace mostly Yoda had trained him that would be a distaster Anikan would be powerful and almost unbeatable good thing Obi-wan trained him he became stronge but not close to being all powerful and if they did leave Anikan their like mysterio69 said their would be no more movies it would be pointless you would see less fighting and more council talking junk and Lazerlike42 i so agree with you yeah for a while the Jedi were a mess they were politians not being Jedi like at really except in fighting that all till the third movie which rocks out loud 😄

It's Obi-Wan's fault.

I mean...why didn't he just stab Anakin as he lay there with his legs missing? Hel-loooooo...look what he created out of sheer negligence.

Well if Yoda did his job Palpatine wouldn't have been able to go back and save Vader...

Violin Vixen good point it's all stupid Palpetine's fault he has to try and take over the galxy bigger than the world what would he do any ways if he controlled the galaxy it would be dull he would just laugh to him self i am powerful i have killed all the Jedis than it would hit him like his lightning what do i do now for fun ? or anything for that matter noooooo! and the goodside had more point of wining the darkside would do nothing with the power really except think that life is pointless after they accomplish it they have no hobbie no goal well that all i have to say for now i have school it's 10:51 night bye

umm could you guys kill your best friend of all time who saved you life for 4 times nope he thought he would die and he couldn't bear looking at him but i would take him back with me and help him and then he would be good again but he would be handycaped so he couldn't pose a threat that way every on wins except darkside 😄

For the sake of all that is good, would you use some punctuation already?

Originally posted by green dude
Violin Vixen good point it's all stupid Palpetine's fault he has to try and take over the galxy bigger than the world what would he do any ways if he controlled the galaxy it would be dull he would just laugh to him self i am powerful i have killed all the Jedis than it would hit him like his lightning what do i do now for fun ? or anything for that matter noooooo! and the goodside had more point of wining the darkside would do nothing with the power really except think that life is pointless after they accomplish it they have no hobbie no goal well that all i have to say for now i have school it's 10:51 night bye

yah, what is with all of the personal attacks on yoda, it isnt Yoda's fault. If any jedi is to blame it is Mace Windu, because he didn't wait for Yoda and Obi-Wan before confronting Palpatine.(Stupid arrogant windu.Shame Shame)But if it isn't a jedi's fault I have to agree with Green Dude and Violen Vixen it is Palpatine's fault all the way

it was the entire jedi orders arrogance and stupidity that lead to the fall of the republic...

among a bunch of other stuff, mainly a very powerful Sith lord who has the ability to pretty much see everything thats going to happen and manipulate it to his advantage...

Originally posted by green dude
umm could you guys kill your best friend of all time who saved you life for 4 times nope he thought he would die and he couldn't bear looking at him but i would take him back with me and help him and then he would be good again but he would be handycaped so he couldn't pose a threat that way every on wins except darkside 😄

Anakin falls to the dark side because his feelings and emotions are never addressed, and in fact what everyone keeps telling him is that his feelings shouldn't or don't matter. Yoda essentialy tells him he's not allowed to have feelings at one point during the movie.

Obi-Wan does not kill Anakin out of feelings. He himself shows attachment, something forbidden to the Jedi. If the Jedi were all correct in their ways, then Obbi-Wan is in great error and commiting the very same "sin" as Anakin did insofar as that he had feelings and attachment.

He was wrong not to strike Anakin and make sure it was done, but he was wrong not only tactically but also insofar as that he made himself a hypocrite. If it were so that the Jedi paid more attention to the human (or Twi'lek or whatever) side of people, both Anakin and Obi-Wan would very likely have been able to keep their feelings in check (though if Anakin did, Obi-Wan would have had no oppurtunity to). The error is on the shoulders of the Jedi order, of whom Yoda is a key figure.

I agree 100%. As always, very well said. 😎

In fact, Obi Wan is much like his Master Qui Gon. In that, yes he does disobey the code by allowing himself to form an attachment to his apprentice, to his... 'brother'. But also in that he doesn't agree with the ways of the Council. This is shown at the end of the conversation he has with Anakin about his 'new assignment': Anakin asks "Why do you ask this of me?" to which Obi Wan replies "The Council asks you."

I also believe Obi Wan suspects a relationship between Anakin and Padme. A scene ultimately cut from the film confirms this. The scene is between Obi Wan and Padme in which Obi Wan speaks of his worries about Anakin. It is the conversation Padmes speaks of to Anakin later. The scene was probably cut due to time as this is really the only thing it establishes. But I think it's important to note that Obi Wan knows of their relationship but says "I'm not telling the Council of any of this". I guess what I'm trying to say is Obi Wan too doesn't agree with the Jedi, probably something he learned from his Master.

I'm not as good with words as Lazerlike, but I know what I mean. 😉

Originally posted by DeVi| D0do
In fact, Obi Wan is much like his Master Qui Gon. In that, yes he does disobey the code by allowing himself to form an attachment to his apprentice, to his... 'brother'. But also in that he doesn't agree with the ways of the Council. This is shown at the end of the conversation he has with Anakin about his 'new assignment': Anakin asks "Why do you ask this of me?" to which Obi Wan replies "The Council asks you."

I also believe Obi Wan suspects a relationship between Anakin and Padme. A scene ultimately cut from the film confirms this. The scene is between Obi Wan and Padme in which Obi Wan speaks of his worries about Anakin. It is the conversation Padmes speaks of to Anakin later. The scene was probably cut due to time as this is really the only thing it establishes. But I think it's important to note that Obi Wan knows of their relationship but says "I'm not telling the Council of any of this". I guess what I'm trying to say is Obi Wan too doesn't agree with the Jedi, probably something he learned from his Master.

I'm not as good with words as Lazerlike, but I know what I mean. 😉

That's interesting.... what is he referring to when he says that he is not going to tell the council about it?

I agree dodo, while not to the extent of QGJ, Obi is more of what a jedi should embody(sp).

And in the book(for what it is worth) Obi-Wan basically confirms that he has always known about the two of them.

lol well to me it's obvious in AOTC.

First there's the scene at the beginning where Anakin whines that she doesn't care he is there, and he says that he has thought about her every day for 10 years or something. Obi-Wan tells him, "She was happy to see you (may have been us can't recall)," and it comes across almost like a guy telling his buddy, 'hey I think she likes you,' or something.

Second, Obi-Wan gives Anakin this look right after he and Padme are kissing while waiting to be taken to the execution. I don't think he saw them, but how could he not sense it? The look to me is great, it almost says, "get a room." 😛

Third, from that point on Anakin spends the rest of the movie complaining about how he has to help Padme. The most obvious part is where she falls and Anakin and Obi-Wan get into a fight over whether to go resuce her. Obi-Wan says "Don't let your personal feelings get in the way," or something like that, and "What do you think Padme would do were she in your position?" It's pretty hard to believe he'd say things with that relevance to their relationship without knowing about it.

Dont forget

Anakin-"I'd much rather dream about Padme, just being around her again is intoxicating."

OW-"Be careful of your thoughts Anakin, they betray you."

Originally posted by astrofan428
Dont forget

Anakin-"I'd much rather dream about Padme, just being around her again is intoxicating."

OW-"Be careful of your thoughts Anakin, they betray you."

yeah... this is interesting it's giving me food for thought into a new way of looking at Obi-Wan

Originally posted by ragesRemorse
Anakins training was not Yodas responsibility, it was his masters. Anakin turning to the dark side was not the fault of any jedi, it was achieved over years of deciet. Yoda was the ONLY jedi who sensed what Anakin was truly capable of.

To say that training Anakin was the job of his jedi masters and not yodas responsibility is like saying that the war in iraq in colin powell's fault, and not dubbya's. EVERYTHING is Yoda's responsibility, he's the head muppet. The root cause of this entire debate is a poor storyline that focuses far too much on trying to establish some sort of lineage or legacy for the jedi to tie into the original three films. Having just seen the third movie and having the ill judgement to have actually paid money to do so, I can say with confidence that the entire affair is simply G-Luc trying to justify his insatiable greed for money with a poorly constructed effort that lacks any semblance of plausible logic simply so that he can make these first three egg suckers.

Obi-Wan is like the Uncle who gives you beer and lets you watch porn while your parents are away. 😛