Originally posted by Cartesian DoubtAs far as I understand, Atum himself isn't an Elder God. The only real Elder Gods are Chthon, Set and Gaea. Atum is Gaea's son and in his normal form is a Sun God (and usually just hangs out inside the Sun). But he isn't all that powerful in that form. It's only when he turns into the Demogorge is he really powerful and at that point, I think he's drawing on the power of the original Demiurge responsible for all deities on Marvel Earth. At least, that's how I always remembered it...
A question regarding the Gods of Marvel Earth.Atum is the most powerful of the Elder Gods, however he contains only the powers of the Sun. Does this means he is not as powerful as Odin who supposedly can destroy Galaxies ?
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
As far as I understand, Atum himself isn't an Elder God. The only real Elder Gods are Chthon, Set and Gaea. Atum is Gaea's son and in his normal form is a Sun God (and usually just hangs out inside the Sun). But he isn't all that powerful in that form. It's only when he turns into the Demogorge is he really powerful and at that point, I think he's drawing on the power of the original Demiurge responsible for all deities on Marvel Earth. At least, that's how I always remembered it...
Yeah thats another question I've been meaning to ask what is the "Demi-urge"? I know its loosely based on the Platonic Demi-Urge, which means its the creator of the physical inferior form of reality. How does the Demiurge rank against the othe Cosmic entities of the Marvel Universe ?
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Pretty positive that Hodiak is not an Elder God. He's a Skyfather. Odin sired Thor with Gaea, siring new gods with her doesn't mean you're an Elder God.Also, I'm pretty sure the Great Beasts aren't Elder Gods either. Chthon, Set, Gaea, Oshtur... only ones I can name offhand.
Hodiak didn't just sire one god and he was called one of the first since he is the sky father and Gaea is the Earth mother. Oh and the Gods of the Arctic are older then the Asgardian's apparently.
Naaaa Great Beasts are 100% Elder Gods. Their even older then the Earth itself, even Tanraq was mentioned as an Elder God *shrugs*
Another Elder God is Chernobog (Russian)
^ Whether they're older than the Asgardians is irrelevant, Hodiak is a Skyfather amongst the other Skyfathers.
I don't doubt that the Great Beasts are older than Earth itself. If that's the case, then they are decidedly not Elder Gods, because the original Elder Gods were born along with the Earth. Not only that, they're extradimensional origins also make them decidedly not Elder Gods, since the Elder Gods' origins lie with Earth.
Don't know who Chernobog is, but if he's got an ethnic connection, then he isn't an Elder God either.
Originally posted by Endless MikeNot sure to be honest. While he definitely exists among Marvel mythology, I don't think he made appearances among traditional Marvel comics very much to be able to make approximations. But considering the pedigree of characters associated with him, like Kulan Gath, a mere sorcerer who's warped Marvel Earth completely... I wouldn't be surprised if he was more powerful than Odin.
Where does Crom rank among these gods? He is above normal Skyfather, I think he is stronger than Odin
Frankly, "Elder God" is just a label. It helps to suggest how powerful they are, but it doesn't completely define it. The only thing it completely defines is where their origins lie.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Whether they're older than the Asgardians is irrelevant, Hodiak is a Skyfather amongst the other Skyfathers.I don't doubt that the Great Beasts are older than Earth itself. If that's the case, then they are decidedly not Elder Gods, because the original Elder Gods were born along with the Earth. Not only that, they're extradimensional origins also make them decidedly not Elder Gods, since the Elder Gods' origins lie with Earth.
Don't know who Chernobog is, but if he's got an ethnic connection, then he isn't an Elder God either.
True, but Hodiak has been called an Elder God as he was one of the first with Gaea, the other Gods of the Arctic are debatable but their older then pretty much all of the patheons.
Actually the Great Beasts DO have origins to Earth. "The Great Beasts who were embodiments of death on this planet (Earth) when it was first commencing alive" and "the Great Beasts rule over death and decay, and can implore death and decay as a weapon against mankind". Even Tanaraq made the first men fear darkness and the cold
"The source of the Darkforce is a Russian elder god named Chernobog". That is what is said *shrugs*
Originally posted by -K-M-I'd have to say that being called an elder god does not make you an Elder God. Pretty much all the Elder Gods were absorbed by the Demogorge with the exception of Gaea, Set, Chthon and Oshtur. Unless Hodiak was one of those gods that ran away and hid themselves when Demogorge ate everyone, he isn't an Elder God.
True, but Hodiak has been called an Elder God as he was one of the first with Gaea, the other Gods of the Arctic are debatable but their older then pretty much all of the patheons.Actually the Great Beasts DO have origins to Earth. "The Great Beasts who were embodiments of death on this planet (Earth) when it was first commencing alive" and "the Great Beasts rule over death and decay, and can implore death and decay as a weapon against mankind". Even Tanaraq made the first men fear darkness and the cold
"The source of the Darkforce is a Russian [b]elder god
named Chernobog". That is what is said *shrugs* [/B]
Ok, so the Great Beasts are not older than Earth? I'm pretty sure they were and they had their origins in a different dimension. But if you're sayin they involved themselves with the emergence of mankind, then that's another reason for not being an Elder God. Mankind's belief in pantheons were important to the modern pantheons, not the Elder Gods.
I'd be interested in reading those comics... do you have issue numbers?
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I'd have to say that being called an elder god does not make you an Elder God. Pretty much all the Elder Gods were absorbed by the Demogorge with the exception of Gaea, Set, Chthon and Oshtur. Unless Hodiak was one of those gods that ran away and hid themselves when Demogorge ate everyone, he isn't an Elder God.Ok, so the Great Beasts are not older than Earth? I'm pretty sure they were and they had their origins in a different dimension. But if you're sayin they involved themselves with the emergence of mankind, then that's another reason for not being an Elder God. Mankind's belief in pantheons were important to the modern pantheons, not the Elder Gods.
I'd be interested in reading those comics... do you have issue numbers?
Yeah he and the other Arctic gods were banished into another dimension (Paradise and the Land of the Moon) thousands of years ago. Also I just checked again and some of the other gods of the arctic are apparently Elder Gods too (just Turoq and Nelvanna are, the others not sure). As they said Elder Gods speak to Talisman through her...well...Talisman and that was the Arctic Gods.
They are, but their origins are linked to Earth for some reason. Not sure they were pretty vague on their full extent of their connection to Earth other then they have been called Elder Gods.
On which thing?
Originally posted by -K-M-What can I say? You're incorrect. Unless Hodiak, Turoq and Nelvanna were around before humanity and when Atum started his first purge and they somehow ran away or hid during that time, they're not Elder Gods. Set and Chthon ran away into other dimensions. Oshtur was away during the first purge exploring the universe and thus avoided the whole bruhaha. Gaea was the only one explicitly spared, since she was the one who birthed and summoned Atum. The term "elder god" has been thrown around, but unless you're amongst the first ones who emerged at the birth of the Earth, you're not one of them.
Yeah he and the other Arctic gods were banished into another dimension (Paradise and the Land of the Moon) thousands of years ago. Also I just checked again and some of the other gods of the arctic are apparently Elder Gods too (just Turoq and Nelvanna are, the others not sure). As they said Elder Gods speak to Talisman through her...well...Talisman and that was the Arctic Gods.They are, but their origins are linked to Earth for some reason. Not sure they were pretty vague on their full extent of their connection to Earth other then they have been called Elder Gods.
On which thing?
Again, if they're older than Earth, they can't be Elder Gods.
On Chernobog.
^ I only know what's been portrayed mostly in Thor, Avengers, Alpha Flight, Incredible Hercules and Dr. Strange comics. And they're pretty straight-forward with the terminology. Gaea, Set and Chthon have consistently been called Elder Gods. And the way that term is used in describing them, refers specifically to their origins with the birth of the Earth (and the Demiurge) and the destruction of nearly all at the hands of Atum. The origin of Oshtur of the Vishanti is also straight-forward when referring to this same history.
I've never seen Hodiak's origins or any of the Great Beasts' origins refer to these specific events. And Hodiak's first appearances in Thor and subsequent appearances in other comics as a Skyfather (with a seat among the Council of Earth Pantheons) cement that. Likewise, Great Beasts' origins which are separate from Earth also cement their classification as something decidedly different.