Darth Revan vs Darth Sidious

I don't know if this counts, but Wikipedia, the world's largest online encyclopedia, states that Revan was "one of the most powerful Sith Lords in history" but it also states in Palpatine's entry (which is VERY large) that "...Darth Sidious, the greatest Dark Lord of the Sith, was finally dead."

Both entries detail how powerful the other was. Both mention that Revan and Palpatine were very similar, very great, and very powerful. But Revan is probably the strongest of the two and Palpatine's probably the greater (greatness doesn't always mean strongest) of the two.

Yeah but if they were to meet and really fight but if I repeat IF it was a draw then why don't they just join forces and with the empire and the Star Forge Unlimitied army could rule the entire galaxy (and with imortalaty provided by Palpatine) for centuries, but i'm getting of the subject but surely it would be a close battle but Revan would win.

My vote goes to Revan.

Originally posted by Darth Somebody
But I will disagree with your thoughts on Palpatine. Palpatine, as you have implied, was SMARTER than Yoda. Yes. I think we can all agree. In a battle of wits - Palpatine would kick ANYONE's ass in the movies and would be one of the best in the EU.

No...he wasn't smater than Yoda.
At least Yoda was the one to destroy him. Yoda knew that the Chosen One would be the one to destroy the Sith. And with all his actions and decissions in RotS he is the one that ultimately destroyed Sidious.

- he knew that Anakin is the one that must destroy the Sith
- meaning: Anakin has to stay alive to fulfill the prophecy (and Sidious must too, since their has to be someone that can be destroyed)
- Yoda sends Obi-Wan to Mustafar alone knowing that Obi-Wan probably won't be able to kill Anakin (he could have gone there on his own or go there together with Obi-Wan; or go and face Sidious with Obi-Wan...in all that possibilities there would have been only one Sith Lord left)

And then look at what Yoda did in the OT movies:
- he gave Luke the reasons to conquer his fear and face Vader (rescue his father, protect his sister)
- he gave Anakin/Vader the only possible reason (love for his own children) to betray his master thereby fulfilling the prophecy in the end.

So it's Yoda outsmarting Sidious in the end.

Palpatine was an excellent duelist. See Jedi Masters are the equal to a Sith Lord. I don't think Yoda could kill three Dooku's or three Mauls or three Grievous's (he's not a Sith Lord, I know) in three seconds. Palpatine kills three Jedi Masters - who are considered to be three of the best duelists that the Order ever produced - in three seconds. I can agree. Yoda is better. But sure as hell not by leagues - otherwise Yoda would've owned Sidious. Which he didn't. I don't recall Palpatine dying. So...

Erm...please...
The only "real" good swordfighters in the order on this time were Yoda, Mace and Obi-Wan (and Anakin). The rest is just lightsaber wielding lame asses. Look how they did fight on Geonosis. Look in what pathetic ways they get killed when Sidious gives order 66 to his clones. And please don't even compare Yoda, Mace, Dooku or Maul to people like Kit Fisto, Saesee Tiin and Agen Kolar. They are totaly out of their league when they faced Sidious. And Sidious launched some surprise attack on them.
Imagine Dooku, Maul and Sidious walk around somewhere. Yoda meets them and they don't know about Yoda having a lightsaber and his force powers. Than Yoda says: "Hey. Lower your head you must so that understand me you can." They do so and get beheaded all with a single strike. Would you call Yoda godlike in that case ?

Palpatine's mastery of the Force is EASILY equal to Yoda's. Yoda's gift at foresight is the greatest amongst his colleagues - but this pales in comparison to Palpatine's - otherwise he would've seen Palps to actually be Sidious.

No...he would not because Sidious is just a big hole in the force seeming like anybody else. What should foresight do about that ? And Sidious still choose to run away when he had the choice to fight Yoda in a "fair" match or just run away.

Palpatine - in combat - is much more clever than Yoda. He used his environment to his advantage. Like everything, Palpatine controlled the majority of the fight. I put emphasis on majority. Palps didn't come out of this unscathed - and he didn't dominate the entire fight. Palpatine orchestrated the fight to where he believed he'd have the advantage. He gained the higher ground - and threw the pods. He kept distance from himself and Yoda. If one has the advantage, one should take it.

Sidious controlled the fight ? Sidious orchestrated the fight ? Ok...Did you see the same film I have seen or do you have NO idea about swordfighting ? He got his ass kicked badly by Yoda. He's fighting unfair, Yoda is fighting fair and still he nearly got owned by Yoda. He didn't come out of that alive because he was clever. He came out of that alive because he was a lucky SOB - nothing more.

You all need to read the book "Art of War". It would educate you. The Sith aren't honorable. Palpatine didn't break a single rule.

Sidious did almost lose two times to people that were fighting honorable (Mace and Yoda) and both times he just had LUCK on his side. Being without honor he should have killed them easily on his own. He wasn't able to do so...now think about how "great" he realy is.

I think you complain to much about how "unfair" Sidious fought, Nai Fohl.
Remember, when fighting for your life you don't think of fair and unfair.
Even not Yoda would do that.
Do you remember sidious laughed through much of the fight? Of course he had an advantage but anyway....
during the lightsaber fight we saw Yoda superior to Sidious, but unfortunately for Yoda, it didn't last that long. For the rest of the fight they were pretty equal.

The Truth is told it is.

Originally posted by sasee tiin
I think you complain to much about how "unfair" Sidious fought, Nai Fohl.
Remember, when fighting for your life you don't think of fair and unfair.
Even not Yoda would do that.
Do you remember sidious laughed through much of the fight? Of course he had an advantage but anyway....
during the lightsaber fight we saw Yoda superior to Sidious, but unfortunately for Yoda, it didn't last that long. For the rest of the fight they were pretty equal.

The fight went equal for the rest of the time, well mostly but it was clear that Yoda was superior even when Sidious was launching pods at him.

Nai, you made some good points. And then you're just pitiful in others. You're trying to excuse the very fact that Sidious's triumphs over the Jedi were based on luck.

For example. You said the rest of the Jedi - other than Mace or Yoda - were pathetic with a lightsabre. You obviously say this because they were the only two to ever last more than five seconds against Sidious. It is also clear that you dismiss their abilities because you believe Sidious to be weak, and yet he triumphed over them.

Palpatine's powers of forsight are NOT perfect. But they are greater than Yoda's. Palpatine is an anomaly - it is through his presence that the Dark Side of the Force so easily clouded the sight of the Jedi. Palpatine is a master manipulator. His skills are quite far beyond all of the other politicians - as well as his tactical abilities are beyond Yoda and Mace.

It is up to speculation whether or not Mace defeated Palpatine in combat or vice versa. I suppose you can look to it that they won the battles, but Palpatine won the war. Regardless - you cannot excuse the fact that
Yoda lost. I'm certain that had things landed in Yoda's favor, you would not be dismissing his victory on luck. You're biased. Painfully so.

Yoda is a VERY powerful figure. His lightsabre skills are probably better than Palpatine's - despite the fact that I've seen in the Making of Star Wars book that Rick McCallum gives Yoda and Palpatine both TEN on his lightsabre scale. That means that they are on the same level. But Yoda has centuries of experience that Palpatine does not - which is understandable why his skills might be inferior to Yoda's. But he kept up with him is my point.

Yoda could never easily crush Palpatine. Nor vice versa. Palpatine was smarter - which is why he survived. Yoda was patient and thoughtful which is why he knew he had to escape from Palpatine to train Luke. In that moment, Palpatine won. No disputes. In the end - Yoda's will was done. But only through Luke.

Kit Fisto and the others were there for a reason. They were made up to be powerful, formidable figures. But they were also killed so easily to prove how powerful the Sith are. They wanted it made clear how dangerous and menacing Palpatine/Sidious was. Not only was he clearly the master manipulator and puppet-master of all of the Jedi's modern failures - but he's also pretty tough in a fight.

But back on topic. Revan could probably defeat Palpatine and Yoda in combat. Not both at the same time, but one on one. In terms of greatness - Palpatine was superior to Revan. Revan did not take control of his greatest enemies. Think about it. The Jedi were under the very control of the Dark Lord of The Sith. Revan was brilliant in combat and in tactics. But overall - in sheer greatness and accomplishments - it would have to be Palpatine.

But in an actual FIGHT - I'd have to say Revan. He had years of experience in combat - where Palpatine could not (he was Chancellor afterall. He holding a lightsaber would be very questionable). He was also pretty strong in The Force, like Palpatine.

Oh. And I will now use a quote of Fishy's to help support my ideas. On the thread "Darth Sidious vs. Luke", one of the members made a comment that in a video game, the character was able to get slashed repeatedly and get shot repeatedly as well. And yet he still survived. To this, Fishy replied:

"Its called scripting...

And an over powered game he sure as hell couldn't do that against a real Jedi or Sith"

Now. Revan is powerful. But all you have is quotes from game characters to actually prove this. Kreia - to my knowledge - does not detail all of his battles. And if you go by in-game combat, just read about my quote above. Thanks! 😄

Originally posted by Darth Somebody
For example. You said the rest of the Jedi - other than Mace or Yoda - were pathetic with a lightsabre. You obviously say this because they were the only two to ever last more than five seconds against Sidious. It is also clear that you dismiss their abilities because you believe Sidious to be weak, and yet he triumphed over them.

I don't say Palpatine is weak and I don't say that people are weak. I just said that the fighting abilities of people like Tiin, Kolar or Fisto is NOTHING compared to Mace or Yoda. Hell...Yoda had 850 years of lightsaber training and Mace invented his own fighting style at the age of 12. How do you want to compare them to Kolar, Fisto and Tiin ?

Palpatine's powers of forsight are NOT perfect. But they are greater than Yoda's. Palpatine is an anomaly - it is through his presence that the Dark Side of the Force so easily clouded the sight of the Jedi. Palpatine is a master manipulator. His skills are quite far beyond all of the other politicians - as well as his tactical abilities are beyond Yoda and Mace.

Oh yes. Great forsight abilities.
In TPM he isn't even able to predict that Valorum would send Jedi (Obi-Wan and Qui-gon) to end the blockade on Naboo - when their mission would have been sucessful his plans would have been destroyed during TPM. He was lucky...There are so many situations in which only luck saves Palpatines plans. And it's quite easy to be a good politician when you are a force user.

It is up to speculation whether or not Mace defeated Palpatine in combat or vice versa. I suppose you can look to it that they won the battles, but Palpatine won the war. Regardless - you cannot excuse the fact that
Yoda lost. I'm certain that had things landed in Yoda's favor, you would not be dismissing his victory on luck. You're biased. Painfully so.

Oh please...
Did Sidious/Palpatines empire survived at the end ? No. What was reason for his downfall...oh...YODAs last apprentice. So who did win the war in the end ? Ups...
And you can tell that Sidious lost to Mace. Please...he threw so much force power at Mace that his body started to collapse...he couldn't go past that point and still Mace is about to kill him. So what ?

Yoda is a VERY powerful figure. His lightsabre skills are probably better than Palpatine's - despite the fact that I've seen in the Making of Star Wars book that Rick McCallum gives Yoda and Palpatine both TEN on his lightsabre scale. That means that they are on the same level. But Yoda has centuries of experience that Palpatine does not - which is understandable why his skills might be inferior to Yoda's. But he kept up with him is my point.

McCallum...wohoo...great source for information about swordfighting. You should better search for a statement of Lucas or at least Gillard to tell you who is the better fighter. Oh...wait: Lucas just said that Palpatine was only able to win against Mace / Yoda because of the circumstances - so not because of his superior skill.

Kit Fisto and the others were there for a reason. They were made up to be powerful, formidable figures. But they were also killed so easily to prove how powerful the Sith are. They wanted it made clear how dangerous and menacing Palpatine/Sidious was. Not only was he clearly the master manipulator and puppet-master of all of the Jedi's modern failures - but he's also pretty tough in a fight.

Imagine Mace would have gone to Sidious alone. Would the fight have been any different ? No. Kit Fisto and the others are obviously only there to get killed - nothing more. Otherwise Anakin would have had to kill them during his assault on the Jedi temple. I won't give him a chance to kill Fisto, Tiin and Kolar at once when they knew he was coming. Sidious suprised them - as I said: Nothing that has to do with "skill" actualy. He just got lucky there.

Revan owns sidious blindfolded, he has much more force knowledge and is much better with a lightsaber, has accomplished more and is a better tactician than sids which means that if anyone would give themselves an unfair advantage in this fight its Revan.

I said his forsight was NOT perfect - but better than Yoda's. Let's face it. If Yoda is the god that you're making him out to be, he would have seen Sidious for who he was. Palpatine. Must I remind you that Palpatine had met very frequently with multiple Jedi Masters and walked out of the room with no suspicion? Need I remind you that Palpatine's empire, according to the Star Wars databank is "the most powerful tyrannical regime". Revan had an empire too. It was tyrannical. Clearly Palpatine's empire was greater than Revan's. Need I also remind you that Palpatine was in control of the Jedi Order? Do think about that please. The Dark Lord of the Sith in control of not only the Republic - but basically had control over the Jedi Order - his worst enemies.

Revan did not have this power. Palpatine clouded the vision of the Jedi. Revan did not. Only at the end - when Palpatine made a direct move and had the Temple destroyed - did the Jedi finally see that Palpatine manipulated them ALL from the very beginning.

Palpatine did away with the Republic - something Revan could never do - and created the Galactic Empire. He controlled the galaxy. Revan did not.

So please stop making it sound like Yoda was smarter, stronger, and more powerful than Palpatine. This is a Revan vs Palpatine fight. And, to end this, need I remind you that Yoda NOR his apprentice destroyed the Empire.

You say that Yoda won in the end. Nope, he didn't. Not even Luke. The Empire signed a peace treaty with the Republic that ended the fighting so they could combat the Vong. Palpatine also was resurrected as a clone - took back the galaxy from the Republic - and seduced Luke to the Dark Side. It required TWO Skywalkers, the Jedi Order, Han Solo, and a Jedi who had to sacrifice himself to finally kill Palpatine.

As for the Revan and Palpatine fight, in direct combat, I'd go with Revan as the victor. In combat.

About Revan never being able to destroy the republic...

If he would not have been attacked by Malak the republic would have been destroyed by the time of Kotor. The republic has said so itself, the Jedi have said so themselves. Revan was still fighting a war, a war Palpatine never even started. Palpatine was always on the winning side, really brilliant but not a test of strength something that Revan really wanted.

Originally posted by Darth Somebody
I said his forsight was NOT perfect - but better than Yoda's. Let's face it. If Yoda is the god that you're making him out to be, he would have seen Sidious for who he was. Palpatine. Must I remind you that Palpatine had met very frequently with multiple Jedi Masters and walked out of the room with no suspicion? Need I remind you that Palpatine's empire, according to the Star Wars databank is "the most powerful tyrannical regime". Revan had an empire too. It was tyrannical. Clearly Palpatine's empire was greater than Revan's. Need I also remind you that Palpatine was in control of the Jedi Order? Do think about that please. The Dark Lord of the Sith in control of not only the Republic - but basically had control over the Jedi Order - his worst enemies.

Revan did not have this power. Palpatine clouded the vision of the Jedi. Revan did not. Only at the end - when Palpatine made a direct move and had the Temple destroyed - did the Jedi finally see that Palpatine manipulated them ALL from the very beginning.

Palpatine did away with the Republic - something Revan could never do - and created the Galactic Empire. He controlled the galaxy. Revan did not.

So please stop making it sound like Yoda was smarter, stronger, and more powerful than Palpatine. This is a Revan vs Palpatine fight. And, to end this, need I remind you that Yoda NOR his apprentice destroyed the Empire.

You say that Yoda won in the end. Nope, he didn't. Not even Luke. The Empire signed a peace treaty with the Republic that ended the fighting so they could combat the Vong. Palpatine also was resurrected as a clone - took back the galaxy from the Republic - and seduced Luke to the Dark Side. It required TWO Skywalkers, the Jedi Order, Han Solo, and a Jedi who had to sacrifice himself to finally kill Palpatine.

My opinion of the yoda vs. palpatine fight is simply that if yoda could have won he would have

A.Continued fighting
B.come back another day to finish the job

I still like yoda better but palps was at least equal to him, as for direct combat, Revans a better swordsman, better force user and better tactician so he wins it.

It's incredible on how topics can change so fast in a single thread...anways my money is on Revan and that is personal opinion. What's also funny is that I am Dragon 89 the dude who started this post. And before you ask I forgot my password and had to make a new account, in fact I forgot I even had a username named Dragon 89 on this site. But in regards to my post I concede that I was wrong on some points and hope that I did not offend anyone.

Yikes. Asides from being a horrible thread (ROTS Sidious would be destroyed, in my opinion), it also has a very bad Nai moment. Nai Fohl arguing Yoda was smarter than Sidious? Yeesh.

Wow. Ye olde thread.

And even more remarkable- I never once posted in it before tonight.