Michael is not innocent. Michael is a freak! BUT!...he alone is not to blame. These people have sent their children to his home, knowing he has these tendancies. They(and the public) simply ignore the fact that they want him to moleste their children, to profit from it. ANOYONE that has placed their childs well being in his custody should be charged with child abuse, the same as Michael himself. Despite his guilt or innocence in the molestation charges, no one shold leave their child with him...have they not been paying attention for the last ten years?
even accepting the possability that he was innocent i wouldnt allow my kids to stay there. why the hell would any sane human being take such a chance unless they knew with 100% certainty that he was innocent?
that right there is the giveaway if you ask me. previous charges were already made and these parents sent their kids regardless.
True PVS, but look at all the people who think that he is "without a doubt innocent" and the kindest, gentlest guy on the planet. Then others are so star struck they do whatever they can just to be associated with him.
Do I think some parents put their kid in that situation to get money, yes, I think that's a distinct possibility. But I think also think that other parents let their kids go with MJ because they were fans themselves andd were blinded by the fame and glitter.
Whatever the case, all the parents showed poor judgement, but as it has been proven again and again, any idiot can have a kid.
people want so desperately for MJ to be innocent and turn around and point their fingers at those who are suspicious of him. "YOU DONT KNOW" they say, and i say "YOU DONT EITHER".
so people, lets have faith in the justice system.
if MJ is innocent, he will not go to prison. if he was of a lower income he would run a great risk of being falsely convicted, but he's filthy rich and has a major league team of lawyers...so dont worry about 'poor michael'.
what bugs me is that people who dont believe it dont want it to be investigated, as if they KNOW he didnt do it? well what if he did? believe me, i hope he didnt do it, simply in that would mean there is one less child molester in the world. but dont let your own wishes erase possibility.
if those kids have truly been raped, and you all were too busy proclaiming his innocence based solely on your love for him as a pop star...well that doesnt say much for you at all.
I agree, and thats been my opinion. I am not a big fan, but I say if he is Innocent he should be set free, if guilty he should go to jail. Of course I would think it would be sad if he was innocent and it turned out that it was just an attempt to get money out of him. But then it would be equally sad if the accusations were true and justice wasn't done. But then I am jaded, either way I might have doubts over the outcome, I can only hope, innocent or guilty, justice, true justice, will be done.
Originally posted by PVS
whatever the situation, jackson paid them off instead of going through with the case and clearing his name. you cant cancel that out by matching it with the scummy nature of the parents who would throw their children into the fire for profit.i think some of those f'n parents would have done the same even if they knew MJ was a molester. point is the motive of the parents is irrelevant.
they probably didnt know what they were sending their kids into and they probably didnt care...just looking to profit
I'm not cancelling it out by any means man, yes it made him look bad but as YOU well know, it doesn't imply nor guarantee guilt.
Originally posted by KharmaDog
Actually it might mean that they didn't want to put their kid through a trial. I'm not saying that it does, but as I have said many times before each of these kids come from families that are not financially well off. They may not have taken advantage of their children, but they may have taken advantage of the situation once it happened. Who knows, whatever the case, whether wrong or not, the parents are not on trial here, MJ is.
Yeah or you're just reading too much into it. Like I said, put you and your kid in the situation. Take advantage? Money would be the furthest thing from my mind if my son/daughter were sexually molested. The very fact that they shut the hell up once they got what they quite clearly wanted leads me to believe that there was nothing there in the first place. You said it might mean that they didn't wanna put their child through the trial, well........don't you think Jackson has had enough of trials? Why is it such a far stretch to assume that he did the same thing with the pay off?
Originally posted by KharmaDog
Like I said, maybe the parents took the money so their kid did not have to go through the court system, who knows, maybe they thought that they could build a better life for the kid with the money. Then again, maybe they are scum of the earth and knew what might happen. There have been many kids and many families, their motivation cannot be all the same, the only constant here is Jackson.You are so ready to condemn the parents for taking the money, yet feel safe in assuming that Michael Jackson is innocent even though he paid off the families to leave him alone. That's a bit of a double standard isn't it?
Not at all. Because you're overlooking WHY I think that. Why do I believe Jackson is innocent?
1. I've not seen anything that, to me, suggests he has any sexual feelings toward children. He likes kids, yes. However if to you, the next logical step to liking kids is sleeping with them...well.
2. He said that he finds nothing wrong with children sleeping in his bed. Whilst I agree this wasn't the best thing to say at all, I realise that if ALL he's doing is SLEEPING in the same bed, then he's breaking no law and doing nothing wrong, to me. He can't be convicted of rape or molestation based on sleeping.
3. After all I've seen of the trial news etc, the witnesses are dubious and never sure what their stories are. The past allegations, as spoken about between PVS and myself (you also), don't imply guilt although there was a pay off.
Now why is that NOT a double standard? Because I'm using your reason against you. Maybe HE didn't wanna go through a trial. If he knows that deep down he did nothing, then it doesn't matter what the world thinks about the pay off. If he didn't do anything, you standing there saying "You paid Jordy Chandler off, you're guilty" probably means jack shit to him.
I don't believe that Michael Jackson's income is going to be a reason for him getting acquited, if he does. In my opinion and I believe rather factually that while we have to rely upon our respective judicial systems, we must - save for extremely dodgy technicalities- acknowledge that if the court decides he is innocent, then he is. PVS was correct in saying nobody ever really knows the truth but as I said in reply, until we have psychic attorneys nobody will.
I'm not a screaming Michael fan that insists he's innocent coz I like him. I love the man's music and it was a big part of my growing up. I personally believe whatever choices he's made in his life and with his body are his own and regardless of whether you like them or not, you should just leave him to be. However, if there are serious child molestation accusations, of course it's right to investigate and if he is concretely guilty, he should be punished. I don't believe he is guilty and I believe that as time goes on, more and more people are wanting to see him go down because he's "weird", not because of the case.
This wouldn't be so hotly debated if it was a random man. The very fact that it's Michael Jackson causes alot of people to wanna see him fall purely for satisfaction and to many, the child accusations are a rather good coincidence. For now the Jackson haters have a reason to hate him, or so they think.
I question what WOULD be better. If the man is innocent and gets off, there will always be more money hungry parents, kids and ill wishers around the corner waiting like vultures for another chance to destroy him. Which is rather pathetic.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
This wouldn't be so hotly debated if it was a random man. The very fact that it's Michael Jackson causes alot of people to wanna see him fall purely for satisfaction and to many, the child accusations are a rather good coincidence. For now the Jackson haters have a reason to hate him, or so they think.
and you must acknowledge the other side. people who love him and believe he would do no wrong based on....nothing...lyrics? he's a great dancer?...who knows. i dont accuse you of being one, but i do accuse you of conveniently leaving that out of the equation. you cant just pigeonhole one side as a bunch of 'haters' and the other as the side of truth and justice. both opinions are full of shit in that they base the case on MJ's character and not on whether or not he molested children. thats the bottom line *DID HE DO IT?*. what i bring up is cause for suspicion, not proofof guilt. perhaps he really is just some f***ed up wacko who likes to pretend he's 8 years old...who knows...but how can you say its not worth investigating? that plus the charges against him. its worth the case, without a doubt. you seem to think its not, and i cant see why. thats why i sense bias in you as well.
as for me, i feel that if he is found innocent of the crime, he still needs some serious councelling, as his issues of his own child abuse and self loathing are so blatent, because that man just has 'suicide' written all over him. but that is another issue entirely.
Originally posted by PVS
and you must acknowledge the other side. people who love him and believe he would do no wrong based on....nothing...lyrics? he's a great dancer?...who knows. i dont accuse you of being one, but i do accuse you of conveniently leaving that out of the equation. you cant just pigeonhole one side as a bunch of 'haters' and the other as the side of truth and justice. both opinions are full of shit in that they base the case on MJ's character and not on whether or not he molested children. thats the bottom line *DID HE DO IT?*. what i bring up is cause for suspicion, not proofof guilt. perhaps he really is just some f***ed up wacko who likes to pretend he's 8 years old...who knows...but how can you say its not worth investigating? that plus the charges against him. its worth the case, without a doubt. you seem to think its not, and i cant see why. thats why i sense bias in you as well.as for me, i feel that if he is found innocent of the crime, he still needs some serious councelling, as his issues of his own child abuse and self loathing are so blatent, because that man just has 'suicide' written all over him. but that is another issue entirely.
I stand by what I say. If you aren't willing to put aside how you personally feel and take a good look at what's going on, don't bother. I couldn't care less if I was a fan or not, I'm unbiased.
When did I say it wasn't worth investigating? I didn't say that. If there was reason to believe child molestation was happening, go for it. If he did do it he should be brought to justice. It's a case that one way or the other NEEDS to be finished because it's going to always be debated. I think it's not worth the case? Of course I do. Whether he goes down or not, doesn't affect me. I'm just saying that I don't believe he's guilty because I've got no reason to believe he is. If you believe his actions are suspicious, that's fine with me, perfectly fine. I don't believe they are. Maybe a little odd but if he's not doing harm, I don't see it as any of my business.
Yes that is another issue, however, isn't that for him to decide? Who are we to decide that the man should get councelling? He's not affecting me with his actions.
-AC
did i imply that MJ should be forced into councelling?
NO
did i say that your view of MJ is bias?
NO
i said that you refuse to look at many of those on the pro-side of your arguement. if your willing to accuse everyone(but me) of hating him for no good reason, then you should acknowledge the overabundance of people who show unconditional trust in him for no good reason.
I never accused everyone of hating him for no reason. I said there are people who hate him for no reason and will stop at nothing to find reason to hate him.
So, because I don't point out that those people are also wrong, it equates to me not acknowledging that they are? Alic88 was posting lots of stuff and I told her that she should stop being so biased about it.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Alic88 was posting lots of stuff and I told her that she should stop being so biased about it.-AC
thats because she had a weak arguement. im talking about those people cheering wildly for him when they really have no f'n clue about what happened or didnt happen. there are masses of idiots on both sides. good thing it doesnt really matter.
A individual can be prosecuted both civilly and criminally for the comission of a single crime.
Had my child been molested by Michael Jackson, I would file criminal charges to ensure that he serves time in prison, and THEN file a civil suit seeking compensatory damages. Why settle out of court when you can have your cake and eat it too? Especially considering that a sympathetic jury is likely to award you more money than Michael Jackson would offer you in an out of court settlement.
Why risk going to trial and being found guilty based on circumnstantial evidence when you can just throw money at the problem and hope it goes away?
Because to some, being PROVEN innocent is better than just knowing it, depending on how much you care about what others think. Michael Jackson may have paid off the kid because he just didn't want to go through the courts yet again. If he knows he didn't do it, as I said before, I'm pretty sure that he doesn't care what the general public think.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Yeah there are idiots on both sides. What are you hoping to achieve by raising this info?I am quite sure we're both aware of it.
-AC
but you are only aware of it when you see it on the con side.
yet at the same time you mix strawman tactics into this arguement, dropping baseless lables, like the way you accuse people of just hating him because he's a freak.