Originally posted by basilisk
Here Firestorm just has to bring up that embarrassing Superman vs Killer Frost fight again in front of everybody:And here Supes gets frozen again. What a loser...
Ha, the low bawling of a character, just to prove you're point.
Now what if i shown scans of Pre-Crisis Superman destroying a Solar System with just a sneeze, or moving planets with just his breath, or reigniting a star. Then what would you do.
Originally posted by Juntaithat may be true, but since this isnt a superman vs the vacuum of space thread, that info is again meaningless as it says nothing about iceman being able to drop the temperature of SM's body to absolute zero or not.
What it does suggest however, is that Superman can survive 3 degrees over absolute zero, and that absolute zero is a condition that he'll never endure on Earth, or in the universe, as absolute zero would require the absence of the universes natural radiation and other conditions.
Originally posted by SquallXIt's up to the OP to decide what a so called full potential Iceman can do. If he doesn't know or doesn't decide then there can be no debate in favor of Bobby (but only Superman).
Ha, the low bawling of a character, just to prove you're point.Now what if i shown scans of Pre-Crisis Superman destroying a Solar System with just a sneeze, or moving planets with just his breath, or reigniting a star. Then what would you do.
Even if Bobby can reach absolute zero and the universe not be destroyed then what matters now is how fast can he reach it. That way we don't have to debate whether he can freeze Superman directly (by controlling his molecules) but indirectly (by controlling the surrounding molecules around Superman).
But know that Superman is so fast he can be absolutely invisible to Bobby's eyes (he has human reflexes and speed of senses). Superman doesn't have to stay in one place so that Bobby can track. He can blast Bobby with HV if he starts in his ice form and create his vapor form (simply ko Bobby if he starts in his human force). Then he can suck up Bobby and compress him and exhale him out into space.
An evil Superman will HV Bobby so hard that he will simply disintegrate to sub atomic particles (far from vapor form) and then decay into energy. But this thread isn't about an evil Superman.
Originally posted by h1a8
It's up to the OP to decide what a so called full potential Iceman can do. If he doesn't know or doesn't decide then there can be no debate in favor of Bobby (but only Superman).Even if Bobby can reach absolute zero and the universe not be destroyed then what matters now is how fast can he reach it. That way we don't have to debate whether he can freeze Superman directly (by controlling his molecules) but indirectly (by controlling the surrounding molecules around Superman).
But know that Superman is so fast he can be absolutely invisible to Bobby's eyes (he has human reflexes and speed of senses). Superman doesn't have to stay in one place so that Bobby can track. He can blast Bobby with HV if he starts in his ice form and create his vapor form (simply ko Bobby if he starts in his human force). Then he can suck up Bobby and compress him and exhale him out into space.
An evil Superman will HV Bobby so hard that he will simply disintegrate to sub atomic particles (far from vapor form) and then decay into energy. But this thread isn't about an evil Superman.
CIS on.
Originally posted by h1a8
I think you are a sock. Why post in THIS OLD THREAD when there is a current thread with Iceman against Thor and Odin?
I don't appreciate being attacked personally by someone who seems to have zero reading comprehension. As I have said, this is were I left off. Also I am really surprised by the silly comment implying the thread "Iceman against Thor and Odin" is the same as "Iceman (full potential) vs. Superman" as if I am starting a thread that is already in place. As for Superman vs Iceman thread it's not the same as "Iceman full potential vs. Superman" Hence the word "full potential". Now I only felt the need to point that out since you didn't seem to grasp the difference implied by your comment above.
Originally posted by h1a8
U playing right? You know he's a sock and posted here to bait.
If you will go to page 44 of this thread you can see my post on Mar 17th, 2009 10:29 AM. You can can also just click on my profile and see I had not posted in 2 years till just recently. Also I think it is dumb to accuse someone of being a "sock" in order to necro a thread.
Why would someone even "need" a sock to do that. It is no secret that I wanted to continue the thread. So even if I had many accounts what difference would it make which one I used anyway? It would not make a difference. I don't need a sock account to start this thread back up because It's not a crime to do so.
And by the way I see allot of comments of people saying they liked or missed this thread so you should be happy I started it back up and anyways I'm not finished with it. My advice to you is, If you don't like this thread than 😱 don't read it.
Now if you could please refrain from further making baseless or pointless accusations against people we could enjoy the debate.
Now since that's out of the way, I'm going to be friendly to you and forget it ever happened. I hope you will forgive my candidness as well.
Originally posted by zeel
superman nukes iceman from orbit with his heat vision.
That would not do anything as he would reform. Not only has he froze the Stranger, incomprehensibly, he has also frozen the stranger's eyebeams.
Originally posted by Mindset
So Superman is going to expel the fluid from his body?[QUOTE=13413585]Originally posted by h1a8
[B]good point. this may be another problem for him. Unless he can compress the liquid in his lungs and expels him later. Idk.
[/B][/QUOTE]
What? He can't compress his own body fluids and spit them out. He is a kryptonian not a shapeshifter lol. But even if he could expel the liquid "in his lungs" that does nothing for the rest of the fluid in his body or his brain fluid for that matter. And you are forgetting that once "Full Potential" Iceman is part of his fluids they are not going to be a fluid but a "solid". And there are tons of scans with red fluids leaking out of his face,mouth,ears,hands,knees, Another words he bleeds so you can't say he is not full of fluids. And at "full potential" Iceman it would not matter, he could freeze something with no fluid for that matter.
Originally posted by h1a8
this fight remains unknown since we don't know the limits of what this iceman can do. can he go absolute zero?
Well to answer your question, yes Iceman can go absolute zero. But you need to keep in mind we are talking about Iceman "full potential"
I'll give an example like --> First Appearance: Marvel Comics Presents#74/4
(MCP#74/4) - Firebomb's bomb was stopped by Iceman and the Human Torch. Alicia and Manhattan were saved from the big bang as the molecular motion in the bomb was stopped by bringing its temperature down to absolute zero.
so
Iceman decides to freeze the bombs trigger to absolute zero to stop it. He mentions that he needs to freeze it to where all molecular motion stops - http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/157/mcp7433el4.jpg/
"Important, Keep in mind that these examples are not even "full positional" Iceman.
Their are already scans on panel showing of Iceman at absolute zero in this thread. If you want more I'll post a few but I don't think its necessary as I already showed he can.
Originally posted by h1a8
How fast can he go absolute zero?
Actually, how fast Iceman would freeze him is irrelevant. In fact if Iceman didn't do it fast it would be bad for superman. You can flash freeze a Dr Pepper but put one in the freezer and let it sit there a while and see what happens. It's not a pretty picture.
But we do know he froze the "Strangers" heat beams. How fast do heat beams travel? How cold does the "Strangers" heat beams need to be in order to freeze?
Respect thread - Iceman flash froze a fusion core explosion. "The energy output of a fusion device would be well beyond that of a nuke actually."
Keep in mind we are talking about "full potential" Iceman who would be way more powerful.
Originally posted by h1a8
How fast can he change states (with respect to Superman's perception)?
Actually, how fast Iceman can change states is irrelevant as well.
You keep thinking of normal Iceman but we are talking about "full potential" Iceman.
Being in two places at once - http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/347/xmenforever5p087lm.jpg/
"full potential" Iceman is connected to EVERYTHING - http://imageshack.us/f/347/xmenforever5p192kj.jpg/
"full potential" Iceman being everywhere - http://imageshack.us/f/347/xmenforever5p227kd.jpg/
He can freeze you but you cant kill something that is everywhere and a part of everything. This would make superman speed useless..
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Aside from that, normal Iceman has been blown up in human form and comes back. - http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/3575/ice1mq3.jpg
Another - bobby has instantly transformed into ice and evaporating, ""after being blown up""
http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/1158/ice2cx0.jpg
Originally posted by Juntai
http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/891/28797729xc4na9.jpgSuperman resisting having his cells shut down- robbed of their energy.
I've already went through all of this in the thread pages and pages ago.
Thank You! I was looking for that link. This is too funny. Yall show a link of superman almost dieing from being shot buy a -->Ice gun.<--
Imagine what Iceman "full potential" would do if superman was almost shut down by one blast from a cold gun...
He said in the image that he was blacking out and his body was shutting down. They didn't even keep shooting a Ice beam at him just once shot. He was frozen long enough for all three of them to talk and him to contemplate being a popsicle.
All that gun does is make it cold around him....Heat is a measurement of the internal kinetic energy of an object. The more those atoms and molecules are buzzing around, the hotter it is.
What Bobby does, is inhibits the motion of those particles (herein referred to as Brownian Motion) thus dropping the temperature and freezing.
If supermans body almost shutdown from "ONE" really cold blast around his body than "full potential" Iceman would actually just "command" his particles to halt from inside his body. And what he does is WAY different than the wimpy gun they shot him with. And Iceman would "sustain" it compared to 1 blast from a gun that is nothing compared to Iceman "full potential"
Originally posted by Juntai
absolute zero is a condition that he'll never endure on Earth, or in the universe, as absolute zero would require the absence of the universes natural radiation and other conditions.
Sorry, I just posted the links of Iceman freezing stuff absolute zero on earth. He has already done it.
Superman has been shown by scans to be hurt by indirect manipulation of his molecules being slowed. And he recovered from it really fast. If he has been shown to be hurt that much.. by indirect manipulation than direct manipulation from someone who has stop elders and celestial beings via direct stimulation by logic would effect him way more.
Originally posted by Juntai
What it does suggest however, is that Superman can survive 3 degrees over absolute zero
The problem is you don't understand Icemans Powers to defend Superman's position. Yall keep saying cold cold cold the cold doesn't hurt the Superman... Well let me try and explain why being resistant or immune to cold is irrelevant in this debate.
Cold in the sense you are using it is not Icemans powers. Cold is just a side effect of his powers.
In a way, COLD is not Icemans power. Cold is a (Side Effect). His power is to manipulate (Slow Down or possibly stop) Internal energy which is the total of the kinetic energy due to the motion of molecules (translational, rotational, vibrational) and the potential energy associated with the vibrational and electric energy of atoms within molecules or crystals. It includes the energy in all of the chemical bonds, and the energy of the free, conduction electrons in metals.
Thermal energy per particle is also called the average translational kinetic energy possessed by free particles given by equipartition of energy.
Thermal energy is the difference between the internal energy of an object and the amount that it would have at absolute zero. It includes the quantity of kinetic energy due to the motion of the internal particles of an object, and is increased by heating and reduced by cooling.
Now when Iceman slows down the kinetic energy of something there is many side effects to this. One of those Side effects is what you would understand as a change in temperature to colder....
You can scan posts of superman being in an environment of just 1 above absolute zero complaining that its hot and it would be irrelevant and have nothing to do with Icemans powers. Cold is just ONE of many side effects of Iceman...
Now hear and understand
It is not possible for life to exist with no kinetic energy. Iceman will stop the spin of the particles on superman. Weather or not superman is hurt by the side effect of it being cold is irrelevant because he would have NO Kinetic energy. In a sense he will be dead. There is no communication of any type between cells to molecules and so on. Therefore there is nothing his body will do. It would actually stop light... It would actually have a better effect than taking away the sun and putting kryptonite inside him.
It's essentially the energy of motion. You know Kitnec is all motion,
Originally posted by Vanloreunfortunately, the current take on the charatce is that he does not control energy, he controls water molecules - as dumb as that sounds - furthermore, even if he did manipulate all manner of kinetic energy, which he doesnt and never has, that would place his energy drain against SM's reserves and conceivable resistance to the drain. the simple problem is that iceman lacks feats against top tiers.
The problem is you don't understand Icemans Powers to defend Superman's position. Yall keep saying cold cold cold the cold doesn't hurt the Superman... Well let me try and explain why being resistant or immune to cold is irrelevant in this debate.Cold in the sense you are using it is not Icemans powers. Cold is just a side effect of his powers.
In a way, COLD is not Icemans power. Cold is a (Side Effect). His power is to manipulate (Slow Down or possibly stop) Internal energy which is the total of the kinetic energy due to the motion of molecules (translational, rotational, vibrational) and the potential energy associated with the vibrational and electric energy of atoms within molecules or crystals. It includes the energy in all of the chemical bonds, and the energy of the free, conduction electrons in metals.
Thermal energy per particle is also called the average translational kinetic energy possessed by free particles given by equipartition of energy.
Thermal energy is the difference between the internal energy of an object and the amount that it would have at absolute zero. It includes the quantity of kinetic energy due to the motion of the internal particles of an object, and is increased by heating and reduced by cooling.
Now when Iceman slows down the kinetic energy of something there is many side effects to this. One of those Side effects is what you would understand as a change in temperature to colder....
You can scan posts of superman being in an environment of just 1 above absolute zero complaining that its hot and it would be irrelevant and have nothing to do with Icemans powers. Cold is just ONE of many side effects of Iceman...
Now hear and understand
It is not possible for life to exist with no kinetic energy. Iceman will stop the spin of the particles on superman. Weather or not superman is hurt by the side effect of it being cold is irrelevant because he would have NO Kinetic energy. In a sense he will be dead. There is no communication of any type between cells to molecules and so on. Therefore there is nothing his body will do. It would actually stop light... It would actually have a better effect than taking away the sun and putting kryptonite inside him.
It's essentially the energy of motion. You know Kitnec is all motion,
Originally posted by 753
unfortunately, the current take on the charatce is that he does not control energy, he controls water molecules - as dumb as that sounds - furthermore, even if he did manipulate all manner of kinetic energy, which he doesnt and never has, that would place his energy drain against SM's reserves and conceivable resistance to the drain. the simple problem is that iceman lacks feats against top tiers.
didnt he recently do just this to sunfire and the COV?
