I think Obi wan said those things to counter Anakin's arrogance. People like Palpatine and Qui Gon told him how great he would be and that went to his head. Obi Won kept reminding him he was young and didn't know everything. Like your average teenager. If Anakin can't take criticism, he is an idiot and deserves what he got.
It is how most padawan are refered too.. listen qui gon jump obi shit... i don't think obi himself was the cause for ani's turning.. but i still believe the jedi had a hand in it.. but it was mostly for padme and the fact he was trained too old.. and saw and felt to many emotions.. you can push emotions away for so long.. but once they are there they will always be there.
Originally posted by p. skywalker
It is how most padawan are refered too.. listen qui gon jump obi shit... i don't think obi himself was the cause for ani's turning.. but i still believe the jedi had a hand in it.. but it was mostly for padme and the fact he was trained too old.. and saw and felt to many emotions.. you can push emotions away for so long.. but once they are there they will always be there.
good point Devil Dodo
Although, Quigon never agreed with the council usually, but that doesn't mean that he didn't believe in the teachings. he disagreed with the council not to train Anakin, but knew he was the choosen one, cause Quigon was the best Jedi in that respect.
yoda: 'Failed I have"
Um...quite possible yoda was thinking that he may have failed the jedi order.
But I still think that Yoda actually did mean that he failed to bring down the sith, cause that was his purpose at the time.
thanks revan.....
as far as yoda goes i think it was a little bit of both on the feelings of failing.. i think he couldn't believed that he fell to sidious.. and that he couldn't belive that he falied to see the fall of the jedi coming.. i know he knew the darkside clouded his vision.. but i think he felt like he should have seen or felt something..
Originally posted by p. skywalker
thanks revan.....as far as yoda goes i think it was a little bit of both on the feelings of failing.. i think he couldn't believed that he fell to sidious.. and that he couldn't belive that he falied to see the fall of the jedi coming.. i know he knew the darkside clouded his vision.. but i think he felt like he should have seen or felt something..
quite possible
Good to see some compelling discussions going on.
I think the most obvious reason for Vader (as he is known by this point) to go on is the fact that he is consumed by the darkside. He is no longer the Anakin we knew, he has committed some dark acts and the darkside is like a drug the more you use it the more you want.
All he has left is the darkside, anger, hatred and revenge. Palpatine being the master manipulator that he is would have pulled the right strings to get Vader right where he wants him, as demonstrated with the lie he tells Vader about Padmes death.
i think you're exaggerating a bit with the whole "Failed i have" thing. If you ask Lucas (which won't happen anytime soon) i think he'll say he was just talking about failing to defeat Sidious. You're analyzing this too much, not to mention the timing for saying "Failed i have" concerning his failure to the jedi order would have been WAY too late. If it WERE about him failing the order, he would've said it earlier.
~wickerman~
Originally posted by DeVi| D0do
...
The Jedi learn from their mistake and instead of training Luke from birth they let him grow up with his family just as Anakin did. And in the end it is Luke's love (which he aquired from leading a normal life) for his sister that leads him to destroy Vader, and it's Anakin's love for his son that brings him back to the good side.
The reason why they didn't train luke from the start is because if they did, vader would find out and kill him. So they waited until he was older, and luke could defend himself more effectivly, and also his training would be faster (as he is older).
Before yoda vs sidious fight, Yoda says "if so powerful you are, then why leave?"
Palpy: "You can not stop me, lord Vader will become stronger then the both of us"
Yoda: "not if anything to say about it, I do"
So yoda is implying that he must defeat the sith, so I think he means by "Failed I have" that he failed to kill Palpy, and the sith will now rule the galaxy.
I'm not saying that Yoda meant that his failure is anything other than his failure to kill Sidious... But I believe his failure is on many other and more important levels than just this, even if Yoda doesn't recognise this himself.
What ever... this is another thing that has been discussed to death and which I've made my opinions clear countless times in countless threads but we seem to keep going round in circles.
Originally posted by jabbar
The reason why they didn't train luke from the start is because if they did, vader would find out and kill him. So they waited until he was older, and luke could defend himself more effectivly, and also his training would be faster (as he is older).
Originally posted by Robin Darkside
Before yoda vs sidious fight, Yoda says "if so powerful you are, then why leave?"
Palpy: "You can not stop me, lord Vader will become stronger then the both of us"Yoda: "not if anything to say about it, I do"
So yoda is implying that he must defeat the sith, so I think he means by "Failed I have" that he failed to kill Palpy, and the sith will now rule the galaxy.
that's exactly what i'm saying as well.
As for the qui gon and yoda scene, i'm sure it'd imply more levels of "failing", but i was just saying when yoda says "Failed i have" he's not referring to his entire series of mistakes.
~wickerman~
Originally posted by Robin Darkside
Before yoda vs sidious fight, Yoda says "if so powerful you are, then why leave?"
Palpy: "You can not stop me, lord Vader will become stronger then the both of us"Yoda: "not if anything to say about it, I do"
So yoda is implying that he must defeat the sith, so I think he means by "Failed I have" that he failed to kill Palpy, and the sith will now rule the galaxy.
Correction: Yoda says, (after Palpy says: "You can not stop me, lord Vader will become stronger then either of us"😉:
Yoda: "Misplaced is your faith in your new apprentice, as is your faith in the dark side of the force"
(man, those are cool lines!)
Originally posted by DeVi| D0do
I'm not saying that Yoda meant that his failure is anything other than his failure to kill Sidious... But [b]I believe his failure is on many other and more important levels than just this, even if Yoda doesn't recognise this himself.What ever... this is another thing that has been discussed to death and which I've made my opinions clear countless times in countless threads but we seem to keep going round in circles.
I don't believe that. If they believed it was better to train people from an older age why do they train them in the PT from very young? [/B]
lol, yes things tend to go in circles, the whole Why Luke was not trained as a kid? idea makes my head hurt.
I still believe that Obiwan was waiting for the right time to train Luke, which is EP IV, and Obiwan didn't want Luke to end up like his father.
Originally posted by Robin Darkside
lol, yes things tend to go in circles, the whole Why Luke was not trained as a kid? idea makes my head hurt.I still believe that Obiwan was waiting for the right time to train Luke, which is EP IV, and Obiwan didn't want Luke to end up like his father.
perhaps he suspected that if he trained Luke and there'd be two Jedi in the same place Vader or the Emperor might sense them. And if they sensed them, Obi Wan and Luke couldn't face them both (since Luke would be too young and weak). In Ep. IV though things are a bit different.
~wickerman~