Terrible Fight Scenes

I have read a little of these pages and so far it seems like everyone was in love with the film.

Please dont get me wrong as i thought it was great, but i felt the fight scenes were so bad and really ruined it for me somewhat. I have read one person say the choreography in the fight scenes was amazing, No offence, but thats complete rubbish.

The fighting was like something out of jerry springer, where they would just shake the camera so much and show close ups so you cant actually see whats going on.

Why oh why was this made to be a 12A (UK rating). For this alone it meant that the fighting wasnt as good as it should have been, i completely blame them for this as all they care about is reaching a larger audience to make more money. For those of you that think this is definately better than Tim Burton's batmans i think you need to watch them again. This film is just fresh and surprisingly good, especially when compared to the 3rd and 4th ones made so this is seriously clouding a lot of peoples judgement.

Does anyone agree with me? As i would be intersted in hearing peoples views.

Thanks.

I think the fights were done like that because if you clearly show Batman fighting twelve guys and once (or whatever), it would end up looking like something from a Jackie Chan movie.

Originally posted by Gregory
I think the fights were done like that because if you clearly show Batman fighting twelve guys and once (or whatever), it would end up looking like something from a Jackie Chan movie.

Exactly...

a previous post i made...

The Direction is pretty solid, no doubt people will whine about the choreography during the fights, though they don’t realise that it should be that way. It maintains the illusion that Batman is a creature of the night, one minute you’re standing there, the next you’ve had the crap kicked out of you and you never saw him hit you… that’s Batman.

Originally posted by JustVisiting
I have read a little of these pages and so far it seems like everyone was in love with the film.

Please dont get me wrong as i thought it was great, but i felt the fight scenes were so bad and really ruined it for me somewhat. I have read one person say the choreography in the fight scenes was amazing, No offence, but thats complete rubbish.

The fighting was like something out of jerry springer, where they would just shake the camera so much and show close ups so you cant actually see whats going on.

Why oh why was this made to be a 12A (UK rating). For this alone it meant that the fighting wasnt as good as it should have been, i completely blame them for this as all they care about is reaching a larger audience to make more money. For those of you that think this is definately better than Tim Burton's batmans i think you need to watch them again. This film is just fresh and surprisingly good, especially when compared to the 3rd and 4th ones made so this is seriously clouding a lot of peoples judgement.

Does anyone agree with me? As i would be intersted in hearing peoples views.

Thanks.

The camera angles on some of the fights were awful.

The fights represented an extremely tight style, which would work, but it was edited together in a sort of hack-job fashion. I didn't notice any shakyness, just lots of unrealistically short cuts.

i actually agree the fight scenes were all so dissapointing...I mean I get what you guys are saying but damn...batman's also supposed to be one of the best fighters in the dcu I wanted to see how he threw down on screen...and I mean christian bale can do fight scenes (i.e. equilibrium), hell they coulda just put a really good fighting stunt man in a bat suit too..... so I dunno...I was just dissapointed...

i currently want to make a lil five minute batman vs. movie clip...I just gotta get a costume together and some friends who don't mind getting a lil beat up....lol.

I thought the fight scenes were perfectly fine. The film was aiming for a more realistic approach and having Batman pefrom Jet Lee type feats would only diminish what they had worked so hard to build.

I believe that the Montreal Film Journal said it best:

"Indeed, the fights can be disorienting, but I think they're supposed to be. As Neeson's character says early on, "This is not a dance!" Batman doesn't indulge in extended gracefully choreographed matches, he stands in the shadows, swoops down to strike then vanishes, only to reappear in another dark corner and continue his Shock and Awe attack. This the way of the Ninja!"

LINK

hm.....good point prophet.....and there is one scene where falcone comes into the alley and you clearly see the fight from his point of view. all he sees is this black fury in the middle of a crowd of guys and can't make anything out....

I just got back from seeing the movie again, and tried to pay more attention in the fight scenes. I made out a little more, but.....not much. that first appearance of his, though........frigging fabulous. there's a choked off scream and a loud crunch, and someone just vanishes. it's jaws, I tell ya, jaws.

I thought the fight scenes were perfectly fine. The film was aiming for a more realistic approach and having Batman pefrom Jet Lee type feats would only diminish what they had worked so hard to build.

I believe that the Montreal Film Journal said it best:

"Indeed, the fights can be disorienting, but I think they're supposed to be. As Neeson's character says early on, "This is not a dance!" Batman doesn't indulge in extended gracefully choreographed matches, he stands in the shadows, swoops down to strike then vanishes, only to reappear in another dark corner and continue his Shock and Awe attack. This the way of the Ninja!"

Yeah, the fight scenes were flawless IMO

way too hectic for me...I like my fight scenes like the ones in ong bak...where you actually see what's happening...I thought I was gonna have a seizure...

Yeah, I admit it was really cool how they made him look like a kind of living shadow that was all over the place, but they could have just done that at the beginning and used easier to see fight scenes for the rest of the film. IMO one of the worst things you can do in a movie is confuse the audience.

yeah the fight scenes in the movie had horrible angles when it was a gang fight. But the sword fights and real important fights were shot fine.

I believe they were shot that way to give you, the viewer, the feeling of what it would be like to be in the middle of Batman coming at you and beating you down. It would be utter chaos! And very disorienting not to mention intense. I've seen the film 3 times and each time I appreciate that fact. I sure wouldn't want Bats to come after me!

Remember, this is supposed to feel realistic and a Matrix or Kung fu look to the fights would be to choreographed to effectively give it that feel. Plus. Ra's tells him when he first gets to the temple (talking Neeson here) when Bruce goes after him that "This is not a dance".

I think Kieralinn's post and my previous post should make it clear that the fight scenes in Batman Begins werent' actually terrible if you understand the reasoning behind the director's choice in style, camera angles, choreography, etc.

Originally posted by Kieralinn
I believe they were shot that way to give you, the viewer, the feeling of what it would be like to be in the middle of Batman coming at you and beating you down. It would be utter chaos! And very disorienting not to mention intense. I've seen the film 3 times and each time I appreciate that fact. I sure wouldn't want Bats to come after me!

Remember, this is supposed to feel realistic and a Matrix or Kung fu look to the fights would be to choreographed to effectively give it that feel. Plus. Ra's tells him when he first gets to the temple (talking Neeson here) when Bruce goes after him that "This is not a dance".

I thought the fight scenes were perfectly fine. The film was aiming for a more realistic approach and having Batman perform Jet Lee type feats would only diminish what they had worked so hard to build.

I believe that the Montreal Film Journal said it best:

"Indeed, the fights can be disorienting, but I think they're supposed to be. As Neeson's character says early on, "This is not a dance!" Batman doesn't indulge in extended gracefully choreographed matches, he stands in the shadows, swoops down to strike then vanishes, only to reappear in another dark corner and continue his Shock and Awe attack. This the way of the Ninja!"

I agree that the fast cuts and camera angles are confusing, but it really works in this film. I think that a scene where we are shown all of bats moves could have worked fine as well. so long as there are no wires and they stay true to batman's skills.

Some interesting points have been made, thanks.

Maybe some of you are right in what you say about it not meaning to be "a dance". However i still cant help thinking the major reason behind it was to give it a lower rating. Which in my opinion isnt right. Also, the fight at the very start is a good example as this for me was still too close up and confusing... even though it was before his training.

I completely understand if he wanted to give the effect some of you have mentioned, but it was not nessessary here and also why do it when some very good fighting could have been done, especially when fighting many people at once. He should have just stuck to it for a couple of scenes where he was being very stealthy.

Originally posted by JustVisiting
Maybe some of you are right in what you say about it not meaning to be "a dance". However i still cant help thinking the major reason behind it was to give it a lower rating. Which in my opinion isnt right.

I seriously doubt that, the only way the rating could have been raised is if Batman straight out killed someone or slit their throat. Kicking and punching from another angle would not have included much blood or gore so I see very little to support your claims.

I'm sorry, but I'm getting tired of people making excuses for these fight scenes in this movie.

Yeah, yeah... you can say that a Matrix/Jet Li type fight scene would not be suitable for a Batman movie. I agree with that. BUT it did not HAVE to be that type of fighting scene for it to be better than what it was. It would have been possible to make fights where he fought more than one guy and show what it would be like to fight Batman without it not look like something out of a Jackie Chan movie.

They were NOT perfectly done in my opinion, but they were just forgivable because it would have been very difficult to do and the movie was so good.