Terrible Fight Scenes

In this post-Matrix/post-Star Wars world, people seem to expect wonderfully choreographed fights, which I think would be incredibly innapropriate.

Have any of you ever been in a real fight? A real fight is like that. Sometimes you think yopu are in control but there are always a few moments of absolute confusion. Even if you have skill in martial arts, most real fights descend into brawls. Batman is a close range fighter, and if you were having a fight with someone like Batman, that is pretty much ALL you'd ever see. A flurry of fists, kicks and headbutts and your down, mate.

Also, the fact you couldn't see an awful lot of Batman's motions made him even more intimidating. Your mind fills in the blanks. I loved that. He'd just appear, kick ass then go. Nuff said.

Ninja and Samurai don't fight like in the movies. They are controlled, yet brutal, just like how Batman was portrayed. Real Samurai fights barely last three clashes of the swords, while Ninja are deadly efficient at taking out even alarmed enemies.

Batman's weapon was confusion. The aim of the fights was to elevate that confusion.

I'm so glad we got to see the brutality and confusion of a real fight, as opposed to a post-Matrix ballet dance, with the protagonists flip-flopping and the edits seamlessly flowing. I didn't want to see that.

I wanted Batman to be a guy you do not even want to start a fight with, and even if you do, he usually finishes it before it even starts. It worked.

The same people who are complaining about the fights would probably complain if we had kung-fu type scenes instead, saying "It doesn't suit Batman" and so on. Some people are just born to whine.

batman's always been capible of superb and extraordinary h2h combat techniques they should have showcased this...all we got was some flashed here and there and then all of the sudden everyone was KOed except batman...make up all the excuses you want...the fights still sucked...

also..a good fight scene does not need to look like ballet...ong bak is a perfect example of this....but for the purposes of a movie which is for all intents to entertain the audenience should have been treated to something better than what we got, which was just hectic...

Yeah but you missed the point of what I was saying. It's supposed to look hectic. The point of view was done, a lot of the time, from the criminals point of view. We saw what they saw - sounds, shadows, screams of others, and a big dude in a suit coming out of nowhere, seemingly flying, and KO-ing the shit out of everyone like a ninja.

And ong bak is the perfect example of how Batman SHOULD NOT be done.

I'll say this again. The fight scenes do not have to be Matrix-style to be better fight scenes than what this movie gave us.

You can still have a martial arts-based fight scene without it being a Matrix-esque fight.

Don't get me wrong I actually didn't think they were terrible, in fact I thought they worked well with the pace of the movie, but I'm just getting tired of the "matrix" excuse.

Like I said earlier, it is forgivable but ...

...just because a "Matrix-style" fight scene isn't suitable for a batman movie, doesn't mean that the fight scenes couldn't have been better. There are other ways to go besides the Matrix/Crouching Tiger Hiden Dragon effect.

Yeah I totally see your point. I just have to disagree with it, because I enjoyed it.

Oh well, I gave my reasons, you gave yours, we can see eye to eye on this so lets just agree to disagree I guess.

But I also enjoyed the movie. And I can see your point about the fight scenes being "how a Batman fight would really be."

I do not disagree with you on that. In fact alot of your post at the top of the page makes me respect the fight scenes a little more.

I'm just tired of hearing the "Matrix" excuse.

(Sometimes I'm too harsh of a critic.)

batman's always been capible of superb and extraordinary h2h combat techniques they should have showcased this...all we got was some flashed here and there and then all of the sudden everyone was KOed except batman...make up all the excuses you want...the fights still sucked...

Ol' Jinny and others are spot on with their assessment. Seriously, didn't anyone else want to know how Batman got a bruise as big as my grandma on his arm? Obviously there was a lot going on during the fights that we were just teased about.

I don't expect a matrix style or jackie chan fight either. I was thinking more along the lines of quick but destructive hits, that result in an arm being snapped and other ramifications that result in the bad guys being incapacitated.

I also thought it was funny how Batman was trained in the deadly art of the assassin. Ninjitsu with all its kill moves. Then all of a sudden he is surprised when he actually has to kill someone.

If they were just going to add all the shaky blurry crap to make Batman look like a shadow then they could have accomplished the same effect by just having Batman descend on the men and then cutting to a scene with a pile of guys behind Batman as he walks away. That would have been better than the nausea inducing fight scenes that caused everyone in the theater to squint to see what was happening only to realize they couldn't see what was happening anyway.

Has anyone played Metal Gear Solid 3?

There are cutscenes in that (motion captured) where a couple of characters fight (I'm thinking of the fights between Boss and Snake), where we see a few cool, clunky moves that have a brutal impact, but are also clearly visible. I'm kinda thinking that a few shots like these would have gone a long way as to please everyone, or more. I guess the constant up close shots are an acquired taste.

I find it hard to criticise Begins. It was such a damn near perfect film I couldn't help but sit back in awe at how much they resurrected Batman's franchise from the ashes and this time it was stronger than ever.

Originally posted by Red Superfly
Yeah but you missed the point of what I was saying. It's supposed to look hectic. The point of view was done, a lot of the time, from the criminals point of view. We saw what they saw - sounds, shadows, screams of others, and a big dude in a suit coming out of nowhere, seemingly flying, and KO-ing the shit out of everyone like a ninja.

And ong bak is the perfect example of how Batman SHOULD NOT be done.

no I didn't miss your point whatsoever..I simply disagree with you.... like someone pointed out earlier...they should have made the fight scene hectic when batman first decends on those guys at the shipping dock... it would have been effective...we would have got the point.... and the movie would have been done with it....

but when batman's facing off against 4 ninjas...you just know something really kickass is about to go down....all the sudden the fight scenes over batman's still standing and we don't even know how it happened....

it sucked plain and simple...the job of a box office movie like this-to make money/ and entertain...fight scenes in action flicks, ESPECIALLY super hero movies are for the ultimate purpose of entertainment.....I loved the movie overall (the thankjebustheyfinallygotitright batman movie imo) but they failed in that respect....

you however missed what I was getting at by the ong bak thing...batman's hits should be destructive, look painful and impressive, and knock people the **** out in one or two blows...batman's a superhero who doesn't have the luxery of being super per say....when we are served a scene that omits to the audience what he does well in physical confrontations (being h2h combat) it's like seing a super hero movie where you never get to see your hero's power...it was a bad choice to use the meathod they did ALL THROUGHOUT the film...once? okay...twice? I can still live with it ...thrice? uh-oh..... four times with ninjas? DAMMIT we got cheated!

i agree with dawsey it doesn't have to be ballet to be entertaining...the fighting style bale had in equilibrium would have been perfect...intense, vicious, and to the point...

You should all listen to Red Superfly, he has explained perfectly why and why not the fight scenes were done the way they were. It seems that I, Superfly, Kieralinn, and others have merely found ourselves repeating ourselves to individuals who don't seem to understand the basis of it all.

to be perfectly honest...I don't think you guys understand...this is a thread that was made to gripe about how the batman fight scenes sucked.....whether or not they did is subjective to the audience member in question...whether or not the batman fight scenes were supposed to be the way they are isn't the issue here... (i don't think they would have put those scenes into the movie by accident or anything)...so it really doesn't matter what the justification of the scenes being the way they are...is....the issue is that to a certain amount of people the fight scenes sucked plain and simple...you can try and justify it all you want...but to the people that think the fights sucked...justification won't alter opinion on the quality of the scenes presented....

I was simply trying to justify why I thought the fights DIDN'T SUCK, because I don't think they suck. That's all. I'm sure we can all get along and have a decent converstaion about this, without resorting to geek-level intolerance and ignorance.

You are right, it merely comes down to whether people think they suck, or don't suck. At least you have decent reasons.

At least you're not one of those people who say "OMG Teh fights sux0rz cos teh is no kick-ass moovs like teh Matricks", because that makes me become the thing I hate the most, a raving geek with a penchant for murder.

Originally posted by Red Superfly
I was simply trying to justify why I thought the fights DIDN'T SUCK, because I don't think they suck. That's all. I'm sure we can all get along and have a decent converstaion about this, without resorting to geek-level intolerance and ignorance.

You are right, it merely comes down to whether people think they suck, or don't suck. At least you have decent reasons.

At least you're not one of those people who say "OMG Teh fights sux0rz cos teh is no kick-ass moovs like teh Matricks", because that makes me become the thing I hate the most, a raving geek with a penchant for murder.

lol...well i'm no where near losing my cool over this...like I said, opinions revolving around what's good and bad is subjective...no reason to get all bent out of shape because we share different viewpoints...

Originally posted by jinzin
you can try and justify it all you want...but to the people that think the fights sucked...justification won't alter opinion on the quality of the scenes presented....

I suppose there is no use in explaining the subject on my part any further.....

no.....no there isn't.....

Yes I agree.

Fights didn't suck though. 😛

*Oh yes they did!*

Oh no they didn't!

*Oh yes they did!*

etc

etc

etc

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz......................

*crashes into tree due to being asleep at the wheel*

Remember kids, don't drive while tired, or Satan will crash your car.

......wow.....😕 that was...............odd................?

This thread seems to have ended where it started.....

Originally posted by Red Superfly
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz......................

*crashes into tree due to being asleep at the wheel*

Remember kids, don't drive while tired, or Satan will crash your car.

Like this! 😱

Yeah sorry about that. I'm really tired at the moment, so I start to ramble when I'm tired. So very tired...............tired..........

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...............................

*crashes into tree due to being asleep at the wheel*

*dies*

Originally posted by TheFilmProphet
You should all listen to Red Superfly, he has explained perfectly why and why not the fight scenes were done the way they were. It seems that I, Superfly, Kieralinn, and others have merely found ourselves repeating ourselves to individuals who don't seem to understand the basis of it all.

I understand what you guys are saying.

But I personally believe that could have been accomplished without the hectic camera angles.

It's like some people think the only choice the producer and director had was either go with the fight scenes the movie had or do Matrix-esque fight scenes.

What I'm trying to get across is there are more ways to do fight scenes than those two options.