Silver Surfer, Pheonix and Galactus vs All of Marvel and DC Universe

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Prosh then sends the gathered group of heroes on an adventure through time. Their consciousnesses are sent back to occupy their past younger selves at important times in their lives so that they can better understand their importance. Jean is sent back in time to when her phoenix self talked to Death in the afterlife. Death tells her that out of all the forces that have threatened the abstracts roles in creation (e.g Thanos with the IG, Adam Warlock, Dormammu, Mephisto etc jean as phoenix was feared the most and that she alone “represents a legitimate challenge to the fabric of reality”:

So how can thanos be a threat?

--------- Again another example of useless picture thrown out of order

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
While the Strangers plans talked only of taking over his universe what you need to remember is that those of ultimate potential these new phoenixes become multiversal beings who survey all of creation as shown by New Xmen. The fact that LT was one of the beings shown to be replaced suggests that humanity reach this ultimate potential around the same time in their respective universes in the multiverse. Alnother point to think about is that before Eternity got involved we were seeing the story from the Strangers perspective which was that the abstracts feared their eventual replacement so that could be why LT was involved because he would have moved against the Stranger by his way of thinking, because it wasn’t a natural part of the cycle of life. However as shown the power of the ultimate mutation was still depicted as being enough to humble LT. So either way whether LT is involved because he is due to get replaced because he is after all an abstract, or if he is shown there because Stranger’s perspective saw LT moving against him and his newly acquired power, phoenix the ultimate mutation is still shown as being too much for him.

What part of LT is not an abstract does not get through?

It's also crap since you think humanity can evolve into LT. Galactus sure...Eternity, Death, and Infinity as well? 😆

Oh well, what did I think? It is an X-title. Everybody in it seems to be getting a power up...including humans this time. 🙄

But don't worry...Wolverine is still top dog in X-titles. 😘

"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""Forces of Space and time

What is space/time = Eternity

LT > Space/time
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

Whats your point? The ultimate mutation surpasses the forces of space and time which is why they are replaced. Being called a force of space and time doesnt mean your limited or restricted to space/time KG. In LT's case it could mean that he's involved with space/time which he is as a guardian of the multiverse.

"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""Read again I told you this comic defies other marvel comics

It is talking about Universe.

LT is not part of the universe
""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

KG ive already explained it all so clearly i dont know if you're just not understanding what i've said or you're just refusing to accept what was shown in that comic. LT is not a part of the universe but he will intervene if a significant enough threat arises within the universe. In the beginning of Xmen Forever we were seeing things from the Strangers viewpoint. He thought the abstracts were threatened by their eventual replacement therefore we could say thats why LT was shown to be involved because he would have intervened from the Strangers viewpoint, when Stranger acquired this phoenix power. However it was still depicted in the comic that the power of the ultimate mutation was enough to humble LT and thats the crux of the matter like it or not.

Thanos with the HOTU only affected a universe however LT intervened because the threat was significant enough and he got absorbed. LT is shown to be very much involved and one of those concerned about the advancement of humanity. LT is later shown to be humbled. What you're forgetting also KG is that phoenixes are multiversal beings. Stranger might have talked of ending and recreating a universe, however the range and influence of his phoenix power as you know extends beyond a universe.

""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""Above LT = nope

This is what X-men forever is saying

Mutants someday > Universal Abstract

Apparently the writers don't know the meaning of Universal

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Just your opinion KG and in light of what that series shows the one we're debating here, it is invalid. If you dont agree/like what it shows then fair enough but dont state your opinion as if its the truth because thats just not the case. This comic shows the power of the ultimate mutation to be enough to humble the LT. Im not lying here am i? A year after this comic came out New Xmen started and this began the abolishment of the phoenix retcon in earnest, however as you can see from this title its quite obvious that this probably started it. If this gets retconned further down the line then fair enough but this is the first and only time the results of a conflict between LT and the phoenix has been shown and LT was licking boots.

""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""There is no more THanos with IG (that was a way back in the days)

So how can thanos be a threat?

--------- Again another example of useless picture thrown out of order

""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

Nope instead this is yet another example of your misunderstanding im afraid. Yes Thanos with the IG is no longer a threat to the abstracts but did you not read what i said Death had told Jean? :

"""""""""Of all the forces that HAVE threatened their roles in creation"""""""""

I never said """of all the forces that threaten""" KG so your point is defunct and mine is very much on point and functional. According to Death the abstracts considered jean as phoenix the only legitimate threat to their roles.

As it stands KG im just going by what the comic shows and that is that Stranger with the power of the ultimate mutation can overpower LT. Strangers plans for this power may have only been universal in scope but that doesnt matter, the range of a phoenixes power isnt restricted to a single universe. Humanity is created throughout the multiverse as the abstracts plan to keep the cycle of creation going. This advancement of humanity occurs throughout the multiverses in the end. In their only confrontation in Marvel comics the power of phoenix had LT on his knees. This power maybe retconned in years to come who knows? You might disagree with what the series shows but at the end of the day you cant argue about what it did actually show like it or not. LT is indeed the top of the multiversal food chain as standard but when someone becomes one with the primal force of creation (which exists beyond creation in the white hot room) making them a phoenix, as shown by this series, they are taken to a level above him.

Beyonder son, do you actually know the definition of abstract? 😕 Why did I ask? 🙄 Your comments make it quite clear that you do not. Theres plenty of online dictionaries available for your perusal, i suggest you make use of them. Please for the love of God. 🙄

Beyonder how can you sit there and criticise what im saying based merely on KG's posts? 😮 You obviously havent read Xmen Forever or my posts have you? 😮 If you took time out from from sniffing KG's jockstrap then you'd LOL at the content of your posts. 😆

The verdict of the GS is YES youre still a joke B, your attempts at debating never fail to make me chuckle. Maybe you should form a coalition with the multitude of others who have been thrashed by yours truly because on your own youre a laughing stock. 😱

A lil sumthin to remember me by Bebe:

Whats your point? The ultimate mutation surpasses the forces of space and time which is why they are replaced. Being called a force of space and time doesnt mean your limited or restricted to space/time KG. In LT's case it could mean that he's involved with space/time which he is as a guardian of the multiverse.

Surpasses same time please don’t add your own theories and try to add more to the story , I have read it.

That scan say all the abstract of space/time won’t let it happened or something to that effect.

LT > Space/time ------- does that mean LT doesn’t Intervene? Did he intervene there? No it was just bunch of picture out of place.

LT only intervene if the balance is disturbed, he doesn’t care about the universe.

When LT was willing to destroy Space/Time himself

And still you have failed to show me where it says it is Multiversal , even if the Mutants replace the abstract of (space/time) someday ---- still the effect is on the Universe.

As you know most of the abstract role are though many different Space/Time ---- Many Universe, Other Eternity.

That was talking about one universe -------- If not show me where it says it will effect the Multiverse.

KG ive already explained it all so clearly i dont know if you're just not understanding what i've said or you're just refusing to accept what was shown in that comic. LT is not a part of the universe but he will intervene if a significant enough threat arises within the universe. In the beginning of Xmen Forever we were seeing things from the Strangers viewpoint. He thought the abstracts were threatened by their eventual replacement therefore we could say thats why LT was shown to be involved because he would have intervened from the Strangers viewpoint, when Stranger acquired this phoenix power. However it was still depicted in the comic that the power of the ultimate mutation was enough to humble LT and thats the crux of the matter like it or not.

Ok the Universal (space/time) gets replaced, but that’s just a fraction of there function (for the likes of Choas and Order)

Just your opinion KG and in light of what that series shows the one we're debating here, it is invalid. If you dont agree/like what it shows then fair enough but dont state your opinion as if its the truth because thats just not the case. This comic shows the power of the ultimate mutation to be enough to humble the LT. Im not lying here am i? A year after this comic came out New Xmen started and this began the abolishment of the phoenix retcon in earnest, however as you can see from this title its quite obvious that this probably started it. If this gets retconned further down the line then fair enough but this is the first and only time the results of a conflict between LT and the phoenix has been shown and LT was licking boots.

Not opinion fact read any Comic involving LT , or any abstract ( like order , chaos) ----- They have universal role , but they have multiversal counterparts ( after all they are just that abstract)

LT wins

Someday they will get replace and this is a battle ------- if you go by X-men Forever even Stranger was able to manipulate and use Pho ,

There fore she looses 🙂

Either way LT wins

This is What GS is saying:

Mutants > LT , Eternity , Order , Choas

😆

"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""Surpasses same time please don’t add your own theories and try to add more to the story , I have read it.

That scan say all the abstract of space/time won’t let it happened or something to that effect.

LT > Space/time ------- does that mean LT doesn’t Intervene? Did he intervene there? No it was just bunch of picture out of place.

LT only intervene if the balance is disturbed, he doesn’t care about the universe.

When LT was willing to destroy Space/Time himself

And still you have failed to show me where it says it is Multiversal , even if the Mutants replace the abstract of (space/time) someday ---- still the effect is on the Universe.

As you know most of the abstract role are though many different Space/Time ---- Many Universe, Other Eternity.

That was talking about one universe -------- If not show me where it says it will effect the Multiverse.

""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

KG if you're of something it does not mean you're restricted to that thing, it could mean you're just involved with that thing. We know LT is very much involved with the affairs of space and time yet we know as a multiversal being he is not restricted to any one universes time/space. It is not my opinion, its just about using common sense when reading a comic. Yes LT does only intervene when the balance is disturbed and thats exactly what will happen if the Stranger uses Jean to initiate the evolution process early so that humanity can transcend and replace the abstracts. Remember KG he was planning to do it well ahead of its natural time because he thought the other abstracts would try to deal with this threat before it was too late. Listen to Eternitys words:

"""""""""""""""""""""""" He plans to usurp that natural ebb and flow and control the tide of the inevitable....He plans to spark humanitys evolution now and turn it into a raging inferno which will engulf the cosmos with the end of all that is.""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

That is something that LT would interfere with because it is against the natural order of things that LT tries to maintain. Notice Eternity never said that the cosmos would end with the end of all that is, he said the cosmos would be engulfed during the end of all that is suggesting the universe being destroyed isnt the be all and end all of the end of all that is , but it effects outside our one universe regardless if the Strangers plans only focus on one universe.

The fact that humanity exists throughout the multiverse should be enough to tell you all you need to know KG. Im assumming you're around my age you're an adult, you shouldnt need to have things spelled out clear as day to you. In mature story lines some aspects of the plot and so on are implied and waiting for readers to pick up and come to the right conclusion on their own. Humanity is just a universes plan to ensure that the cycle of creation continues, it is created to bring about the end. Humanity is made in each universe by its respective abstracts. The ultimate mutation which is phoenix is amultiversal force as you know KG. By taking control of such power the range and influence of his power extends across the multiverse, despite his plans focusing on just being supreme in his own respective universe. His power is not limited to one universe.

"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""Again the is statement is hack, read again Strange is planning to be the Sole Survivor of the New Universe (once this one dies)-------- I have shown countless time.

Ok the Universal (space/time) gets replaced, but that’s just a fraction of there function (for the likes of Choas and Order)
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

Ive already dealt with this above. The power of Phoenix is multiversal. Eternity says that strangers plans will engulf his universe amidst the end of everything which suggests it is not limited to just one universe/reality. The fact that humanity exists throughout the multiverse and humanity is after all just a part of the abstracts plans to keep the life cycle going. All universes will end with the advancement of humanity KG. Its silly that you want it literally spelled out for you. This isnt an elementary level title. Its about connecting everything up in your head. None of what i have said is false. I've just linked together everything ive been told by the comic in my head. None of it is just a theory of mine. Stranger will be tapping into a multiversal force. The comic depicted him doing so and LT was shown on the floor. It really is as simple as that.

"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""Not opinion fact read any Comic involving LT , or any abstract ( like order , chaos) ----- They have universal role , but they have multiversal counterparts ( after all they are just that abstract)

LT wins

Someday they will get replace and this is a battle ------- if you go by X-men Forever even Stranger was able to manipulate and use Pho ,

There fore she looses

Either way LT wins

This is What GS is saying:

Mutants > LT , Eternity , Order , Choas

""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

The Phoenixes are the evolved state of humanity in union with the primal force of creation. By using the genetically gifted of humanity the stranger would be tapping directly into the power of creation. He is not controlling Phoenix at all KG. He was just planning to become one with creation like she is thats what makes her a phoenix. He was just trying to access her power source. The phoenixes are the evolved humans , Stranger never controllled Jean im afraid so you're wrong. Another example of your misunderstanding. Thanos being able to tap into and use the HOTU didnt lower its status or make it any less powerful did it? So Stranger using the genetic potential of latent phoenixes to access the power of creation similarly doesnt lessen it. At the end of day the comic shows that the power of phoenix is enough to humble LT regardless of whether you think its right or not. Its what Marvel has shown. In the only confrontation between the power of phoenix and the LT the power of phoenix comes out on top KG. LT is top of the multiverse but anyone who can tap into the power of creation which exists beyond the multiverse, achieves a level beyond LT as ive said.

Sorry KG.

but if Phonix is so great that's why the strange easily used her , and her powers.

as for it effected multiverse ( wrong) -------- you still have to show me Where it says Multiverse?

I went over it again.

Creation = universe
Space/time = Eternity
Strange ----- will be the sole survivor of the new universe
Mutant will replace ------------ Space/time abstract

None is opinion rite out of the book, multiversal ( that’s just something you made up)

Again replacing doesn’t mean shit in battle

Phoenix was used by Stranger she won’t be much problem for LT anyway

Again this is a battle , what can Phoenix do , nothing Strange manage to use her like nothing

Originally posted by kgkg
but if Phonix is so great that's why the strange easily used her , and her powers.

as for it effected multiverse ( wrong) -------- you still have to show me Where it says Multiverse?

I went over it again.

Creation = universe
Space/time = Eternity
Strange ----- will be the sole survivor of the new universe
Mutant will replace ------------ Space/time abstract

None is opinion rite out of the book, multiversal ( that’s just something you made up)

Again replacing doesn’t mean shit in battle

Phoenix was used by Stranger she won’t be much problem for LT anyway

Again this is a battle , what can Phoenix do , nothing Strange manage to use her like nothing

KG you're really not getting me or even what the comic was saying. I dont know how to break it down for you so that you can understand but i'll give it another shot.

Phoenixes are Jean and the evolved mutants. They all have the genetic potential to tap into the primal force of creation. That is the power source which can only be accesssed by the genetically gifted which all humanity will be in the future. Stranger hoped to use Jean to tap into the power of creation. The comic depicted what the power would allow him to do. Which was humble LT. Jean and the heroes managed to defeat the Stranger before he managed to use her. What you need to remember is that this wasnt Phoenix Jean, her Phoenix powers werent active at the time, however Stranger because of her genetic potential could access her power source and Jean as a normal mutant wouldnt have been able to stop him. Of course if she was manifesting her phoenix powers at the time it would have been no problem because he wouldnt have been able to force her into anything. So no KG he didnt use Phoenix. However as depicted in the comic had he defeated the heroes and gained access to the power of creation then he would have had the power to deal with LT. Please try and get into your head that regardless of Strangers plans that having access to Jeans phoenix power would have given him multiversal reach and influence, he would have come into conflict with LT for upsetting the natural order as stated by Eternity and well you saw the outcome of that battle for yourself. LT would have got punked.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
[B]Beyonder son, do you actually know the definition of abstract? 😕 Why did I ask? 🙄 Your comments make it quite clear that you do not. Theres plenty of online dictionaries available for your perusal, i suggest you make use of them. Please for the love of God. 🙄

abstract Word: WordStarts withEnds withMentions
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ab·stract (b-strkt, bstrkt)
adj.
1. Considered apart from concrete existence: an abstract concept.
2. Not applied or practical; theoretical. See Synonyms at theoretical.
3. Difficult to understand; abstruse: abstract philosophical problems.
4. Thought of or stated without reference to a specific instance: abstract words like truth and justice.
5. Impersonal, as in attitude or views.
6. Having an intellectual and affective artistic content that depends solely on intrinsic form rather than on narrative content or pictorial representation: abstract painting and sculpture.
n. (bstrkt)
1. A statement summarizing the important points of a text.
2. Something abstract.
tr.v. (b-strkt) ab·stract·ed, ab·stract·ing, ab·stracts
1. To take away; remove.
2. To remove without permission; filch.
3. To consider (a quality, for example) without reference to a particular example or object.
4. (bstrkt) To summarize; epitomize.
5. To create artistic abstractions of (something else, such as a concrete object or another style): "The Bauhaus Functionalists were . . . busy unornamenting and abstracting modern architecture, painting and design" John Barth.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Middle English, from Latin abstractus, past participle of abstrahere, to draw away : abs-, ab-, away; see ab-1 + trahere, to draw.]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ab·stracter n.
ab·stractly adv.
ab·stractness n.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Updated in 2003. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
ThesaurusLegend: Synonyms Related Words Antonyms
Noun 1. abstract - a concept or idea not associated with any specific instance; "he loved her only in the abstract--not in person"
abstraction
right - an abstract idea of that which is due to a person or governmental body by law or tradition or nature; "they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights"; "Certain rights can never be granted to the government but must be kept in the hands of the people"- Eleanor Roosevelt; "a right is not something that somebody gives you; it is something that nobody can take away"
concept, conception, construct - an abstract or general idea inferred or derived from specific instances
absolute - something that is conceived to be absolute; something that does not depends on anything else and is beyond human control; "no mortal being can influence the absolute"
teacher - a personified abstraction that teaches; "books were his teachers"; "experience is a demanding teacher"
thing - a special abstraction; "a thing of the spirit"; "things of the heart"
2. abstract - a sketchy summary of the main points of an argument or theory
precis, synopsis, outline
summary - a briefstatement that presents the main points in a concise form; "he gave a summary of the conclusions"
brief - a condensed written summary or abstract
apercu - a short synopsis
epitome - a brief abstract (as of an article or book)
Verb 1. abstract - consider a concept without thinking of a specific example; consider abstractly or theoretically
consider, regard, view, reckon, see - deem to be; "She views this quite differently from me"; "I consider her to be shallow"; "I don't see the situation quite as negatively as you do"
2. abstract - make off with belongings of others
cabbage, filch, pilfer, purloin, snarf, nobble, swipe, sneak, pinch, hook, lift
steal - take without the owner's consent; "Someone stole my wallet on the train"; "This author stole entire paragraphs from my dissertation"
3. abstract - consider apart from a particular case or instance; "Let's abstract away from this particular example"
look at, consider, deal, take - take into consideration for exemplifying purposes; "Take the case of China"; "Consider the following case"
4. abstract - give an abstract (of)
sum up, summarize, summarise, resume - give a summary (of); "he summed up his results"; "I will now summarize"
Adj. 1. abstract - existing only in the mind; separated from embodiment; "abstract words like `truth' and `justice'"
nonrepresentational - art
impalpable, intangible - incapable of being perceived by the senses especially the sense of touch; "the intangible constituent of energy"- James Jeans
concrete - capable of being perceived by the senses; not abstract or imaginary; "concrete objects such as trees"
2. abstract - not representing or imitating external reality or the objects of nature; "a large abstract painting"
abstractionist, nonfigurative, nonobjective
nonrepresentational - art
3. abstract - based on specialized theory; "a theoretical analysis"
theoretical
technical - characterizing or showing skill in or specialized knowledge of applied arts and sciences; "a technical problem"; "highly technical matters hardly suitable for the general public"; "a technical report"; "producing the A-bomb was a challenge to the technical people of this country"; "technical training"; "technical language"
4. abstract - dealing with a subject in the abstract without practical purpose or intention; "abstract reasoning"; "abstract science"
theoretical - concerned with theories rather than their practical applications; "theoretical physics"

Beyonder how can you sit there and criticise what im saying based merely on KG's posts? 😮 You obviously havent read Xmen Forever or my posts have you? 😮 If you took time out from from sniffing KG's jockstrap then you'd LOL at the content of your posts. 😆

Based on merely KGKG's post? 🙄 Get over it, I've based my opinion on YOURS, KGKG's, OTHER POSTERS, AND WHAT I KNOW of the Marvel hierarchy. I argued with you over this before G.S. and you know it. It ain't like all of a sudden I jumped into the frey and just agreed with KGKG.

The verdict of the GS is YES youre still a joke B, your attempts at debating never fail to make me chuckle. Maybe you should form a coalition with the multitude of others who have been thrashed by yours truly because on your own youre a laughing stock. 😱

No coalition's needed. Your still being dillusional. You haven't beaten anybody. It's all in your head G.S. Wake up fanboy, wake up - 'cause it's all been a dream. 'Cause when you do, LT, Lucifer, Michael, TOAA, Presence, HOTU, Unicron, IG would still be above Phoenix Force.

Come on B how old are you? It seems I must compensate for your shortcomings once again. Sit back and be enlightened sonny.

Abstract- existing only in the mind; separated from embodiment; "abstract words like `truth' and `justice'"

Something is often considered abstract if it does not exist at any particular place and time; instead instances, or members, of it might exist in many different places and/or times

Things are often said to be concrete, that is, not abstract, when they have physical existence or when they occupy space.

In general, a concept is considered concrete if it is not abstract: it must be both particular and an individual, and hence occupy both space and time. To say that a physical object is concrete is to say, approximately, that it is a particular individual that is located at a particular place and time.

The abstract entities in Marvel are basically abstract concepts and ideas which have the ability to manifest themselves in our space time through physical bodies.

Things such as eternity, infinity, order, chaos, love, hate they are all abstract concepts. In marvel these concepts can give themselves corporeal form within our space time. The Living tribunal represents equity, necessity and revenge all abstract concepts. The living tribunal exists outside of space and time but can manifest himself at various points in space time through M-bodies. The Living Tribunal is the top abstract of Marvel.

""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""No coalition's needed. Your still being dillusional. You haven't beaten anybody. It's all in your head G.S. Wake up fanboy, wake up - 'cause it's all been a dream. 'Cause when you do, LT, Lucifer, Michael, TOAA, Presence, HOTU, Unicron, IG would still be above Phoenix Force.

"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

Havent beaten anybody Bebe. Well you're alone in that chain of thought. In thi sthread in particular i have been doing very well. All arguments presented to all points sent my away have been countered. My points, my comic book proof all of my scans which support my argument have yet to be countered because they cant be. They clearly make my point and you can hardly argue legitimately against them. All in my head Bebe? Actually its all in the comics which is why ive posted for all to see. At the end of the day the comics clearly show that the power of the ultimate mutation is enough to overpower LT and thats the crux of the matter. To argue with scans is ridiculous. Whether you like it or not thats just how it is.

Jumping in and saying i havent won anything despite having sufficient evidence to support myself means nothing to me Be. It just shows all people need to know about your credibility. You just need to accept that times change and that maybe what old GS has been telling ya is true after all.

LT, Lucifer, Michael, TOAA, Presence, HOTU, Unicron, IG would still be above Phoenix Force.

X-men forever ( 2001) vs the end ( 2003) ( where thanos says LT= top dawg)

hey another retcon GS

She Hulk (2004) ---- all creation

Phoenix Force that contain the Crystal + magic + sword etc < LT ( 1994 same crystal )

lol even Pho highest feat got owned by Lt and his might and power over the multiverse

😄

Check that

The crystal never changed (1994 gambit), so therefore

Power to contain the crystal still is no match for LT

Originally posted by kgkg
yep

X-men forever ( 2001) vs the end ( 2003) ( where thanos says LT= top dawg)

hey another retcon GS

She Hulk (2004) ---- all creation

Phoenix Force that contain the Crystal + magic + sword etc < LT ( 1994 same crystal )

lol even Pho highest feat got owned by Lt and his might and power over the multiverse

😄

You can carry on dismissing the issue KG but at the end of the day in their one and only confrontation, the one time where their powers were measured against each other Phoenixes came out on top. And thats that.

Xmen forever talked of how mutants were eventually going to evolve into beings that were beyond LT and the like, while New Xmen got rid of the Phoenix retcon and Endsong which was after the End went on to conclusively dismiss the retcon and cement Phoenixes role and origins by explaining away any past retcon appearances and supporting what New xmen started again.

Just like after the beyonder retcon we can go back and explain away his omnipotent showings as mere illusions no matter how hard to fathom that might be, after New Xmen and Endsong we know for definite that Jean was the only true avatar up until recently and that all manifestations of the firebird derived from Jean. All were shards of Jeans essence which Rachel through being bonded to Jean genetically can call upon to empower herself. Rachel as an omega mutant may in the future turn into a true avatar herself and bond with the primal force of creation, however that has yet to happen. As it stands KG my friend, LT greeted and stroked a shard of Jeans essence that rachel could call upon. Thanks to New Xmen and Endsong we now know that that was the case.

KG you can continuosly keep saying that LT is the top dog to over come in the multiverse and thats true im not denying that, however ive already explained that Phoenix who exists beyond the multiverse is not a threat to be over come by universal threats. LT has never been shown in comic book form as per current continuity to be more powerful than the phoenix force. LT however has been shown to be no match for the phoenix power. If a universe dies if 100 universes die it wouldnt matter to phoenix as long as the cycle of creation isnt interfered with. (I've already supported this through previous posts check back) All of phoenixes manifestations into our plane of existence have just been to deal with threats only phoenix is capable of dealing with and without her intervention creation would be at risk. e.g multiversal M'kraan crystal, the sentient bacteria Sublime who would have ravaged creation by obtaining telekinetic godhood. The M'kraan crystal is a feat the comic said only Phoenix was capable of. Id think the destruction of the multiverse would have been a problem LT would have interfered with wouldnt you say KG?

After Phoenix has done her work she leaves our plane of existence until the next time a threat to the cycle of creation arises. Phoenix is no threat or opposition to someone who seeks domination over a universe, over someone who just wants to destroy the universe. Phoenix doesnt care about that as shown in New Xmen 154. Therefore LT is the top dog to overcome when it comes getting to the top of the multiversal hierarchy. He was the top as standard before Jean evolved however that is no longer the case obviously. It cant be argued with that Xmen Forever showed that the power of phoenix is greater than LT. The retcon explains away phoenixes past appearances and its role in creation. Phoenix is rarely in comics and the retcon does not mess up the hierarchy in the slightest. LT is the top dog to overcome in the multiverse for those seeking to destroy or dominate. However any force or entity that threatens the cycle of creation, then phoenix will mainfest in our plane of existence to deal with the threat.

Sorry KG but your only argument was rendered defunct by a recent retcon. I know you love LT, i know you hate change, who knows maybe this phoenix situation will get retconned in a few years. But as it stands right now phoenix is beyond LT. Sorry mate.

oooooh, dip!

Originally posted by demigawd
oooooh, dip!

huh? u big weirdo 😛

Aw, you're too young (and too british) to remember the ooooh dip. I believe the modern translation for that is....PWN3D!!!

Originally posted by demigawd
Aw, you're too young (and too british) to remember the ooooh dip. I believe the modern translation for that is....PWN3D!!!

😄 why thank you kind sir 😄

Though that should be tempered by the fact that I stopped reading the actual content of your posts on this thread about 16 pages (and 137 "telekinetic godhood"s) ago. I just read the last sentences of each post for some smart ass remark, then decide if it's pwnag3 based on that.

😄