time travel confusing thingy

Originally posted by Evil Dead
2 people state this.........not the laws of physics. they propose their ideas.......ideas of 2 people, not physics.

No, two renowned physicists.

Originally posted by Evil Dead
exactly.......which is why for any time travel hocus pocus to work, it would require that everything in our universe is pre-ordained, fate, destiny, whatever you want to call it. A person could not go back and "change" something. For something to be percieved as being changed it would require that the "change" was already pre-ordained by destiny. You had no choice in changing it.......the universe was mapped out, you have no choice, you were going to change it regardless...........which really means it's not a change, it's only percieved to a person with a first person point of view as a change.

This would only be true if time is linear. If parallel dimensions exist, traveling backward in time would be possible without predestination.

Originally posted by Anoushka
😂 that example reminds me of the one i gave from back to the future abt chuck berry and his song.

but i do kinda get what ED is saying...
although there seem to be many loopholes,like the future self going back to the past thing...

That's not really what I am talking about.

This would only be true if time is linear. If parallel dimensions exist, traveling backward in time would be possible without predestination.

not quite.

the idea is ludicrous as is.......but for time travel to occur in the examples I've given, time COULD NOT be linear. It would require pre-destination............which means all events are already planned ahead, occuring all at once. We would just be cogs going through the motions of a fate driven existence. If time were linear, the events of today affect the events of tomorrow.......which would affect the events of the next day. Back to the Back to the Future reference. If time were linear, there's no way Marty could help Chuck Berry discover the sound of "Johnny B. Good" via playing it for his cousin Marvin........as Berry had already done so 15 years before Marty was born.

was does "parallel dimensions" have to do with anything? Another dimension would simply be another part of our universe that exists on another plane (very definition of dimension...a plane)......one that we do not yet know of. It has nothing to do at all with the concept of "time".........if you somehow found yourself in another dimension at this very moment in time, it would still be this very moment in time........not 30 years ago. There are three known dimensions to our physical universe.......X plane, Y plane and Z plane. If you stumble onto a W plane..........okay, you've found another level of existence.....one that goes deeper than our current understanding, one that may not even be physical...........how does this affect the theoretical fourth dimension of "time"? Just as the other 3 planes, the phsyical ones......it is constant. It's role is merely to keep two pieces of mass from occupying the same 3 physical coordinates of our universe at once......

Originally posted by Evil Dead
not quite.

the idea is ludicrous as is.......but for time travel to occur in the examples I've given, time COULD NOT be linear. It would require pre-destination............which means all events are already planned ahead, occuring all at once. We would just be cogs going through the motions of a fate driven existence. If time were linear, the events of today affect the events of tomorrow.......which would affect the events of the next day. Back to the Back to the Future reference. If time were linear, there's no way Marty could help Chuck Berry discover the sound of "Johnny B. Good" via playing it for his cousin Marvin........as Berry had already done so 15 years before Marty was born.

was does "parallel dimensions" have to do with anything? Another dimension would simply be another part of our universe that exists on another plane (very definition of dimension...a plane)......one that we do not yet know of. It has nothing to do at all with the concept of "time".........if you somehow found yourself in another dimension at this very moment in time, it would still be this very moment in time........not 30 years ago. There are three known dimensions to our physical universe.......X plane, Y plane and Z plane. If you stumble onto a W plane..........okay, you've found another level of existence.....one that goes deeper than our current understanding, one that may not even be physical...........how does this affect the theoretical fourth dimension of "time"? Just as the other 3 planes, the phsyical ones......it is constant. It's role is merely to keep two pieces of mass from occupying the same 3 physical coordinates of our universe at once......

The many-worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics averts the special role played by the measurement process in the Copenhagen interpretation by proposing several key ideas:

The first of these is the existence of a state function for the entire universe which obeys Schrödinger's equation for all time and for which there is no wavefunction collapse due to measurement.

The second idea is that the universal state is a quantum superposition of an infinite number of states of identical non-communicating "parallel universes".

Hugh Everett, Ph. D. suggests that all possible quantum events occur in mutually exclusive histories. These alternate, or parallel histories would form a branching tree symbolizing all possible outcomes of any interaction. Since all possibilities exist simultaneously, paradoxes could not occur as paradoxical events would simply happen in different universes.

so.........you're not talking about dimensions, you're talking about an infinite number of alternate universes......i.e. Sliders. Should have said that in the first place.......makes more sense............but just because two universes are non-communicating, how do you equate this as travelling through time by travelling from one universe to another?

Originally posted by Evil Dead
so.........you're not talking about dimensions, you're talking about an infinite number of alternate universes......i.e. Sliders. Should have said that in the first place.......makes more sense............but just because two universes are non-communicating, how do you equate this as travelling through time by travelling from one universe to another?

I am not equating interdimensional travel and time travel as mutually exclusive. It is possible to travel forward in time without traveling to an alternate dimension. It is also possible to travel to another dimension without traveling through time.

However, backwards time travel is not possible within one's own dimension. This does not mean that backwards time travel is impossible. It simply means that all backwards time travel is also interdimensional travel.

However, backwards time travel is not possible within one's own dimension. This does not mean that backwards time travel is impossible. It simply means that all backwards time travel is also interdimensional travel.

you're mingling words again. you mean travelling to another universe......not dimension. A dimension is a plane of existence in our universe..........there are three known to us. Even if you found a fourth....a theoretical W plane (to go along with the x, y and z planes) you would still be in the same universe, any other planes in our universe would be constant just as the 3 we know of are.

Travelling to another universe still would not equate time travel......even if an alternate universe was exactly the same as ours but 30 years behind.........it would not be time travel. It would merely be leaving one universe where the year is 2005 and entering into a universe where the year is 1975. The travel would still be parallel.....from one universe to another, not backward.

As for travelling to the future.......yes but not really. Time is merely a concept, not a real thing..........therefore it is relative to each individual human being. What seems like 5 minutes to one person may seem like 20 minutes to another. The only way to measure this man made concept is with a man made scale, a clock. You could theoretically escape Earth's gravity...........wander aimlessly in space for 30 years.......and come back to earth to find your body hasn't physically aged 30 years from lack of gravity..........it may not even seem to have been 30 years to you because you have no other humans around as a control to gauge your time gone. This ofcourse would merely be a first person perspective........you didn't physically age 30 years.......mentally, you don't feel that you have been gone 30 years..........all the same, the other 6 billion people on the planet see it as you were just gone 30 years and look good for your age.

Originally posted by Evil Dead

Travelling to another universe still would not equate time travel......even if an alternate universe was exactly the same as ours but 30 years behind.........it would not be time travel. It would merely be leaving one universe where the year is 2005 and entering into a universe where the year is 1975. The travel would still be parallel.....from one universe to another, not backward.

I think he meant parallel universes, he just used another word. I agree with you that we wouldn´ be travelling backwards in our own time, because as you said, in our time past is already determined. So if we want to interact with that past, the only way is to travel to a parallel universe which is equivalent to the that past we want to live in.

Originally posted by Evil Dead
you're mingling words again. you mean travelling to another universe......not dimension. A dimension is a plane of existence in our universe..........there are three known to us. Even if you found a fourth....a theoretical W plane (to go along with the x, y and z planes) you would still be in the same universe, any other planes in our universe would be constant just as the 3 we know of are.

In quantum mechanics, a hypothetical universe which exists separately from our own is called a "parallel universe." It also sometimes called an "alternate universe," or an "alternate dimension."

Originally posted by Atlantis001
I think he meant parallel universes, he just used another word. I agree with you that we wouldn´ be travelling backwards in our own time, because as you said, in our time past is already determined. So if we want to interact with that past, the only way is to travel to a parallel universe which is equivalent to the that past we want to live in.

Exactly.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
In quantum mechanics, a hypothetical universe which exists separately from our own is called a "parallel universe." It also sometimes called an "alternate universe," or an "alternate dimension."

Exactly.

So are you saying that an alternate dimension that is in a different time like 1997 or something, like at the end of the movie "The One" when they sent him to a different dimension but it really seemed like the past and everything that he had said had happened in his past was happening right then in that other dimension?

Originally posted by powerfulone1987
So are you saying that an alternate dimension that is in a different time like 1997 or something, like at the end of the movie "The One" when they sent him to a different dimension but it really seemed like the past and everything that he had said had happened in his past was happening right then in that other dimension?

I have not seen The One, so I could not tell you.

Originally posted by powerfulone1987
So are you saying that an alternate dimension that is in a different time like 1997 or something, like at the end of the movie "The One" when they sent him to a different dimension but it really seemed like the past and everything that he had said had happened in his past was happening right then in that other dimension?

Not saw it either, but by what you told looks like it would be really is like that. If we come back to 1997 we will be free to do anything, because everything that happened to us, happend in another dimension.

yes.......

the point he's getting at is like the end of "the One".......where he goes to another Universe in the multi-verse, one that is behind ours in time.....

In quantum mechanics, a hypothetical universe which exists separately from our own is called a "parallel universe." It also sometimes called an "alternate universe," or an "alternate dimension."

yes......I know this.....but if you here somebody calling it an "alternate dimension"......feel free to correct them because it is wrong. You kept throwing me off because you kept mingling the words universe and dimension as if it were the same thing.

But as you said, PARALLEL universe. Even if you were to leave our universe and enter another........you would still be travelling parallel, not back in time. Even if the date in the parallel universe is 1995, you didn't travel backward in time.........you merely travelled parallel in time to a Universe in which recorded history began 8 years after our own.

Originally posted by Atlantis001
Not saw it either, but by what you told looks like it would be really is like that. If we come back to 1997 we will be free to do anything, because everything that happened to us, happend in another dimension.

What if the past was also a different Universe/dimension? You could end up in a different past, like Germany could have won WW2.

What if the past, present, and future are all running simultaneously at the same time....all on different frequencies......and parallel universes....Mind boggling.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
What if the past was also a different Universe/dimension? You could end up in a different past, like Germany could have won WW2.

Good point. That I don´t know.... never read anything about that. I think science doesn´t know either. In fact, the parallel universes thing is just a hyphotesis, but many scientists agree with that. To know for sure we will need to join togheter quantum mechanics, and general relativity, I think. Something that no one did yet. If I had to speculate about that, I would say that we could end up in a different parallel universe. For example, if I return to year 500, my mere presence there makes past different from our own past (after all I were not alive at year 500), so I must be in a different parallel universe. But maybe thats not only us the only different thing in that universe, there could be other different things like 'Germans winning the WW2'. I think quantum mechanics will make our travel to the "past", rather imprecise so we could end up in any universe.

Why imprecise ? Because in quantum mechanics, if we say that there are two possible futures, lets say A, and B. For a given particle, we cannot predict exactly what will happen, we can just predict its probabilities like for example 40% for A, and 60% for B.
We could think in A, and B, as being different parallel universes, and we would be the particle. So, if we will really arrive in the right universe will be just a matter of probability. In the other hand, things could be not so imprecise like this, maybe it could be extremely improbable, or nearly impossible to end up in a totally different parallel universe.

Anyway, nothing has been proved yet. And sorry for the long explanation. 🙂

Originally posted by Evil Dead
yes.......

the point he's getting at is like the end of "the One".......where he goes to another Universe in the multi-verse, one that is behind ours in time.....

yes......I know this.....but if you here somebody calling it an "alternate dimension"......feel free to correct them because it is wrong. You kept throwing me off because you kept mingling the words universe and dimension as if it were the same thing.

But as you said, PARALLEL universe. Even if you were to leave our universe and enter another........you would still be travelling parallel, not back in time. Even if the date in the parallel universe is 1995, you didn't travel backward in time.........you merely travelled parallel in time to a Universe in which recorded history began 8 years after our own.

The concept of a parallel universe was introduced by Hugh Evertt, Ph.D. in 1953. The term "parallel universe" would later be introduced by Dr. Bryce DeWitt. In the Many Worlds Interpretation of quantum mechanics, the terms "alterrnate universe" and "alternate dimension" are used synonymously with the term "parallel universe." Feel free to explain to the physicists who created the theory of the multiverse, that they are using their own terminology incorrectly.

Furthermore, for backward time travel to be possible, one would have to travel to a parallel universe. This does not mean that if one arrives in a universe in which the year is 1995 that this universe began 10 years after the one in which he left. Rather, it means that the universe in question began at the same time as the one in which he left, he simply traveled backwards in time to get there. Interdimensional travel is not one dimensional. One is not restricted to traveling universe-to-universe, but can travel to any point in time in a given universe.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
One is not restricted to traveling universe-to-universe, but can travel to any point in time in a given universe.

Good point. The events in the other universe are not yet determined so there is no restriction at what time we will arrive. There would be restrictions only if time was determined.

In the Many Worlds Interpretation of quantum mechanics, the terms "alterrnate universe" and "alternate dimension" are used synonymously with the term "parallel universe." Feel free to explain to the physicists who created the theory of the multiverse, that they are using their own terminology incorrectly.

they're not here using the terminology now, you are. I must say though........the physicists must not have been very intelligent if they never learned the defenition of "dimension", a basic mathamatical concept taught in every level of mathmatics from Geometry upward.

Everybody is free to believe as they wish........I just have a problem with people using the wrong terms in scientific discussion.......it makes them appear much less intelligent than they probably are. Science is about precision if nothing else.........all areas. How precisely can somebody have studied a subject if they don't even know the correct terminology.

Originally posted by Evil Dead
they're not here using the terminology now, you are. I must say though........the physicists must not have been very intelligent if they never learned the defenition of "dimension", a basic mathamatical concept taught in every level of mathmatics from Geometry upward.

Everybody is free to believe as they wish........I just have a problem with people using the wrong terms in scientific discussion.......it makes them appear much less intelligent than they probably are. Science is about precision if nothing else.........all areas. How precisely can somebody have studied a subject if they don't even know the correct terminology.

I don´t know if you were talking about me, but sorry I I did look agressive. I don´t like rethorical discusssions too, in those discussions people always are missing the point.