That is utterly and completely absurd. Anyone who knows anything about training at the source of martial arts knows damn well it takes YEARS for even extraordinary martial artists to "master" a style. For Batman to have mastered 127 styles in under 10 years means he had to have been taking the Kim's Karate course. That's just laughable. You caouldn't master 127 forms in 50 years, let alone 10.
Originally posted by riceroost
That is utterly and completely absurd. Anyone who knows anything about training at the source of martial arts knows damn well it takes YEARS for even extraordinary martial artists to "master" a style. For Batman to have mastered 127 styles in under 10 years means he had to have been taking the Kim's Karate course. That's just laughable. You caouldn't master 127 forms in 50 years, let alone 10.
As is Wolverine mastering virtually all known forms of martial arts in the world, whatever. Batman gets the favor to win in my opinion not because of the 127 but the fact he goes up against foes far greater then his human abilities and only has his skill and cunning to fall back on.
Wolverine is good but he has used his mutations to make him exceptional....................................this is strictly H2H no mutations no weapons.
Originally posted by Soleran
As is Wolverine mastering virtually all known forms of martial arts in the world, whatever. Batman gets the favor to win in my opinion not because of the 127 but the fact he goes up against foes far greater then his human abilities and only has his skill and cunning to fall back on.Wolverine is good but he has used his mutations to make him exceptional....................................this is strictly H2H no mutations no weapons.
✅ And btw, riceroost, how many freakin' times do I have to tell ya, it's TWENTY years, not ten. Get it into your brain. And stop using real world logic in comic books. It doesn't work. What's there is there.
Originally posted by batdude123Batman did not go on a training trip for 20 years. Even if he did, he only spent 1/2 the time fighting anyway, which still means only 10 years which is dwarfed by what Wolverine has done.
✅ And btw, riceroost, how many freakin' times do I have to tell ya, it's TWENTY years, not ten. Get it into your brain. And stop using real world logic in comic books. It doesn't work. What's there is there.
Originally posted by riceroost
Batman did not go on a training trip for 20 years. Even if he did, he only spent 1/2 the time fighting anyway, which still means only 10 years which is dwarfed by what Wolverine has done.
🙄 How many times do I have to explain the experience thing to you? It's not how long you train, it's how hard and how useful you train. Wolverine w/o any powers would lose in a contest of pure skill simply because Batman can still compete with the guys Wolverine does when he has his mutant powers except Batman does it with skill and intellect. Wolverine's skill has never been shown to be as great in comics as Batman's, I don't care how the f*ck long he's been training. In a pure h2h fight w/o any weapons or mutant powers, Batman would win. Get over it.
Originally posted by batdude123Insinuating that Wolverine does not train as diligently as Batman is just wrong. Wolverine trains in the Danger Room, the best training facility on the planet, offering the most dangerous challenges that can be created. Unlike the Avenger's training facility in the Danger Room you are in real Danger, especially Wolverine who fights with the safeties off at a higher level than any other X-Man. Wolverine trains harder than Cap. Batman does not train anywhere near as hard as Cap. Get real.
🙄 How many times do I have to explain the experience thing to you? It's not how long you train, it's how hard and how useful you train. Wolverine w/o any powers would lose in a contest of pure skill simply because Batman can still compete with the guys Wolverine does when he has his mutant powers except Batman does it with skill and intellect. Wolverine's skill has never been shown to be as great in comics as Batman's, I don't care how the f*ck long he's been training. In a pure h2h fight w/o any weapons or mutant powers, Batman would win. Get over it.
And you are flat out wrong if you think experience doesn't matter. Captain America is arguably the best hand to hand fighter in the Marvel Universe. You crack on Ogun because he only knows 13 martial arts styles. Cap only knows 3!! Boxing, Judo, and his own acrobatic style. It's his EXPERIENCE that makes him the best. Any fighter worth their salt will agree that experience makes the difference. Now Wolverine has almost 50 years MORE experience than Cap does. Plus he has a much wider diversity of training. I don't care what your personal opinion is. Your personal opinion is wrong.
Wolverine also takes a lot of damage because he has to. Is Gambit, Jubilee, or Beast gonna absorb the enemy's fire? No. It falls to people like Wolverine. Why does he go right after the Hulk or Magneto? Because he takes the pain so the others can exploit the openings. How does Wolverine take on someone like Spider-Man? His training. Hulk? Training. Omega Red (When he was something to be feared)? Training. Batman doesn't go up against the threats Wolverine does. Wolverine consistantly fights people that dwarf him in power. Batman does not. He avoids the fights he knows he can't win. Wolverine doesn't care. Does that make Bats a better fighter? No.
A perfect example of Logan using SKILL is every time he fights Sabretooth. Right now Sabretooth is stronger, faster, and has a better healing factor, as well as adamantium. Why does Wolverine still have more victories? Because he is far better trained and has more skill than Sabretooth.
Just because Wolverine doesn't fight with his whole skill set, doesn't mean it's not there. It makes no sense to use a Leapard Blow against Sabretooth. It's not going to do anything to him. Look at the times Wolverine has had no powers.
Frank Tieri: Wolverine and Beast are depowered and thrown into a metahuman prison. Every meta villian in the prison knows who Wolverine is and they all want him dead. Every day Wolverine fights basically the entire prison by himself, and the worst anyone can do to get at him is go after Beast, who is useless in human form. Wolverine takes down the The Absorbing Man a former pro boxer of Heavyweight Gold calibur without ever throwing a punch and proceeds to tell him that "There are about 43 ways to kill ya right now, pick one." Wolverine then fends off a prison riot by himself before being shocked into oblivion by about 20 guards with cattle prods, not even bothering to fight the guards.
Is Batman going to fend off an entire prison by himself? Because Wolverine has. With no claws, no healing factor, no nothing. Just him and his two fists, all the while protecting Hank McCoy.
I also deny Batman could beat him because Wolverine(Mr. 43 ways to kill you from this position) is an assassin. Batman is not. Wolverine also has more heart than Batman. Wolverine has dealt with more *hit when he had no powers than you seem to realize. He beat Deathbird (trainer of Gladiator) with no powers, Fought off Lady Deathstrike, Omega Red, Sabretooth, Cyber, Bloodsport/scream, Cylla, as well as Omega Red and Deathstrike at the same time. He has been pumped full of automatic machine gun fire in Genosha with no powers and still managed to get back up to fight. His ability to take untold damage with no working healing factor (while being poisoned by his adamantium) is way higher than anything Batman could take. Putting Wolverine with no powers against Batman is simply like putting Wolverine against Sabretooth. hE WINS ANYWAY.
Without his powers/ad bones&claws logan loses to batman.
Logan is brawler. Sure he may know some fancy martial arts but he still prefers to brawl. Does this make him a lesser fighter? Of course not.He's more effective this way.
Like in boxing, Tyson and Marciano are not skilled boxers but they are better fighters.
I recall a wolverine comic. It was when logan lost his powers and was battling werewolves in some robotic suit. Logan said something like Shigen teaching him about mastering the technique but never hesitate to loose the animal inside. And that he doesn't always get the technique right but has no problem letting the animal loose.
Logan's aggressive style is suited to his power set. He doesn't care that you get 10 hits as long as he gets one hit and you're dead. He'll heal anyway. Why waste your time dancing for an hour when you can kill him in seconds.
If his claws,enhanced strength, speed, durability and healing are gone. His brawling tactics won't cut it and he's going to change his style into a finesse fighter. In that case Batman wins 7/10.
He may have more experience but a lot of those are spent fighting with powers. And its not as if batman is inexperienced. Both are in the game long enough not to panic and make stupid mistakes.
H2h batman is more skilled than logan. When did you see logan do anything like batman's leopard blow and other funky chi moves. Skillwise logan can hang with top tier martial artist but no way is he going to beat them in majority w/out his powers. Wolverine is already a powerful and cool character. No need to make him into the best martial artist too. Let other characters have that distinction.
If logan has his powers then it's another story. He beats 10 batmans 10/10 times in H2H.
Originally posted by riceroost
Insinuating that Wolverine does not train as diligently as Batman is just wrong. Wolverine trains in the Danger Room, the best training facility on the planet, offering the most dangerous challenges that can be created. Unlike the Avenger's training facility in the Danger Room you are in real Danger, especially Wolverine who fights with the safeties off at a higher level than any other X-Man. Wolverine trains harder than Cap. Batman does not train anywhere near as hard as Cap. Get real.And you are flat out wrong if you think experience doesn't matter. Captain America is arguably the best hand to hand fighter in the Marvel Universe. You crack on Ogun because he only knows 13 martial arts styles. Cap only knows 3!! Boxing, Judo, and his own acrobatic style. It's his EXPERIENCE that makes him the best. Any fighter worth their salt will agree that experience makes the difference. Now Wolverine has almost 50 years MORE experience than Cap does. Plus he has a much wider diversity of training. I don't care what your personal opinion is. Your personal opinion is wrong.
Wolverine also takes a lot of damage because he has to. Is Gambit, Jubilee, or Beast gonna absorb the enemy's fire? No. It falls to people like Wolverine. Why does he go right after the Hulk or Magneto? Because he takes the pain so the others can exploit the openings. How does Wolverine take on someone like Spider-Man? His training. Hulk? Training. Omega Red (When he was something to be feared)? Training. Batman doesn't go up against the threats Wolverine does. Wolverine consistantly fights people that dwarf him in power. Batman does not. He avoids the fights he knows he can't win. Wolverine doesn't care. Does that make Bats a better fighter? No.
A perfect example of Logan using SKILL is every time he fights Sabretooth. Right now Sabretooth is stronger, faster, and has a better healing factor, as well as adamantium. Why does Wolverine still have more victories? Because he is far better trained and has more skill than Sabretooth.
Just because Wolverine doesn't fight with his whole skill set, doesn't mean it's not there. It makes no sense to use a Leapard Blow against Sabretooth. It's not going to do anything to him. Look at the times Wolverine has had no powers.
Frank Tieri: Wolverine and Beast are depowered and thrown into a metahuman prison. Every meta villian in the prison knows who Wolverine is and they all want him dead. Every day Wolverine fights basically the entire prison by himself, and the worst anyone can do to get at him is go after Beast, who is useless in human form. Wolverine takes down the The Absorbing Man a former pro boxer of Heavyweight Gold calibur without ever throwing a punch and proceeds to tell him that "There are about 43 ways to kill ya right now, pick one." Wolverine then fends off a prison riot by himself before being shocked into oblivion by about 20 guards with cattle prods, not even bothering to fight the guards.
Is Batman going to fend off an entire prison by himself? Because Wolverine has. With no claws, no healing factor, no nothing. Just him and his two fists, all the while protecting Hank McCoy.
I also deny Batman could beat him because Wolverine(Mr. 43 ways to kill you from this position) is an assassin. Batman is not. Wolverine also has more heart than Batman. Wolverine has dealt with more *hit when he had no powers than you seem to realize. He beat Deathbird (trainer of Gladiator) with no powers, Fought off Lady Deathstrike, Omega Red, Sabretooth, Cyber, Bloodsport/scream, Cylla, as well as Omega Red and Deathstrike at the same time. He has been pumped full of automatic machine gun fire in Genosha with no powers and still managed to get back up to fight. His ability to take untold damage with no working healing factor (while being poisoned by his adamantium) is way higher than anything Batman could take. Putting Wolverine with no powers against Batman is simply like putting Wolverine against Sabretooth. hE WINS ANYWAY.
Yep, I have trained for many years 17 to be exact in Kung Fu, and Judo, and I'll tell you straight, if I took another art I would be no where as good as I am, my friend (name witheld) ranked number two in the world in Tai kwon do, he is also a seasoned boxer. I took him in less than five minutes, although he was nearly if not better than me in kicking, my ground work completely nullified this. What I am saying is that 127 styles actually works against Batman, that many arts thins his ability out quite a bit. Wolverine on the other hand is so old that he could logically be a better martial artist than Batman. It really doesn't make any sense, even in comic form, I think DC has painted themselves into the corner with this one. I can remember reading a few of my uncles old Batman comics, and he was never the fighter that he has become in the last 15 years. I can only guess that as time goes on, he will become a master of the Jedi Force.
I don't wanna sound like a batfanboy( I'm the farthest thing from it), but without his powers, Wolvie's fighting a guy who's faster and stronger(not 100% sure but I think powers are what makes Wolvie stronger and faster than Bats, not his training) and has a big time reach advantage. I'll say their knowledge of cthe MAs is about the same
Have you ever tried to spar with a smaller opponent? Do you know what a punch generated by Wolverine could do to Batmans face? remember Batman would be punching downwards, which generates less force, than a punch coming from the ground upwards, a normal humans face would be crushed by a one hundred pound punch moving at 60 miles per hour. just a thought.
Nah. I'm always the smaller guy. I haven't sparred in a long time though. I'm not sure about the physics of punching up or down. I guess I thought punching down'd be aided by gravity. I doubt the difference is that large though. I know from being the smaller guy that if Wolvie gets in close that his punches will be more effective because Bats won't be able to get a full extension on his punches.