Originally posted by riceroost
Insinuating that Wolverine does not train as diligently as Batman is just wrong. Wolverine trains in the Danger Room, the best training facility on the planet, offering the most dangerous challenges that can be created. Unlike the Avenger's training facility in the Danger Room you are in real Danger, especially Wolverine who fights with the safeties off at a higher level than any other X-Man. Wolverine trains harder than Cap. Batman does not train anywhere near as hard as Cap. Get real.And you are flat out wrong if you think experience doesn't matter. Captain America is arguably the best hand to hand fighter in the Marvel Universe. You crack on Ogun because he only knows 13 martial arts styles. Cap only knows 3!! Boxing, Judo, and his own acrobatic style. It's his EXPERIENCE that makes him the best. Any fighter worth their salt will agree that experience makes the difference. Now Wolverine has almost 50 years MORE experience than Cap does. Plus he has a much wider diversity of training. I don't care what your personal opinion is. Your personal opinion is wrong.
Wolverine also takes a lot of damage because he has to. Is Gambit, Jubilee, or Beast gonna absorb the enemy's fire? No. It falls to people like Wolverine. Why does he go right after the Hulk or Magneto? Because he takes the pain so the others can exploit the openings. How does Wolverine take on someone like Spider-Man? His training. Hulk? Training. Omega Red (When he was something to be feared)? Training. Batman doesn't go up against the threats Wolverine does. Wolverine consistantly fights people that dwarf him in power. Batman does not. He avoids the fights he knows he can't win. Wolverine doesn't care. Does that make Bats a better fighter? No.
A perfect example of Logan using SKILL is every time he fights Sabretooth. Right now Sabretooth is stronger, faster, and has a better healing factor, as well as adamantium. Why does Wolverine still have more victories? Because he is far better trained and has more skill than Sabretooth.
Just because Wolverine doesn't fight with his whole skill set, doesn't mean it's not there. It makes no sense to use a Leapard Blow against Sabretooth. It's not going to do anything to him. Look at the times Wolverine has had no powers.
Frank Tieri: Wolverine and Beast are depowered and thrown into a metahuman prison. Every meta villian in the prison knows who Wolverine is and they all want him dead. Every day Wolverine fights basically the entire prison by himself, and the worst anyone can do to get at him is go after Beast, who is useless in human form. Wolverine takes down the The Absorbing Man a former pro boxer of Heavyweight Gold calibur without ever throwing a punch and proceeds to tell him that "There are about 43 ways to kill ya right now, pick one." Wolverine then fends off a prison riot by himself before being shocked into oblivion by about 20 guards with cattle prods, not even bothering to fight the guards.
Is Batman going to fend off an entire prison by himself? Because Wolverine has. With no claws, no healing factor, no nothing. Just him and his two fists, all the while protecting Hank McCoy.
I also deny Batman could beat him because Wolverine(Mr. 43 ways to kill you from this position) is an assassin. Batman is not. Wolverine also has more heart than Batman. Wolverine has dealt with more *hit when he had no powers than you seem to realize. He beat Deathbird (trainer of Gladiator) with no powers, Fought off Lady Deathstrike, Omega Red, Sabretooth, Cyber, Bloodsport/scream, Cylla, as well as Omega Red and Deathstrike at the same time. He has been pumped full of automatic machine gun fire in Genosha with no powers and still managed to get back up to fight. His ability to take untold damage with no working healing factor (while being poisoned by his adamantium) is way higher than anything Batman could take. Putting Wolverine with no powers against Batman is simply like putting Wolverine against Sabretooth. hE WINS ANYWAY.
And yet most the fights your talking about Wolverine is being supported by his mutation. Even when he fought Deathstrike and Omega Red he had on a vindicator type armor on and he still ran. You have clearly illustrated how exceptional Wolverine is with his mutations! Now without his mutations he is just another human no more strength, healing , agility etc etc Batman is just beyond him on all accounts.
LOL and lets understand something if Wolverine had ZERO powers when he got pumped full of machine gun fire he would have died............they can cut a man in 2.
I think the people here should read up back when Wolverine didn't have his adamantium and when he lost his powers. With only his metal its a lot easier for him to move and concentration cause the adamantium is no longer poisioning his body. Its like a big weight was lifted off him. And more recently when he lost his powers and was just relying on his martial art skills he was a beast. Ask Silver Samurai.
To the point of skills. Batman went on his global sojourn for 12 years and that entire time wasn't devoted to training his body he was also training his mind, I don't know where 20 came from. He is well versed in many martial arts that is true and he does regularly train to push himself. Wolverine on the other has been training well over 90 years. Plus he is constantly training in the danger room to push himself. So Wolverine has more than 10 times the experience as Bruce, plus he consistently pushes himself now yet he can't scor a win. Even w/o and powers/gadgets Wolverine should edge him out 6/10
Originally posted by riceroost
Insinuating that Wolverine does not train as diligently as Batman is just wrong. Wolverine trains in the Danger Room, the best training facility on the planet, offering the most dangerous challenges that can be created. Unlike the Avenger's training facility in the Danger Room you are in real Danger, especially Wolverine who fights with the safeties off at a higher level than any other X-Man. Wolverine trains harder than Cap. Batman does not train anywhere near as hard as Cap. Get real.And you are flat out wrong if you think experience doesn't matter. Captain America is arguably the best hand to hand fighter in the Marvel Universe. You crack on Ogun because he only knows 13 martial arts styles. Cap only knows 3!! Boxing, Judo, and his own acrobatic style. It's his EXPERIENCE that makes him the best. Any fighter worth their salt will agree that experience makes the difference. Now Wolverine has almost 50 years MORE experience than Cap does. Plus he has a much wider diversity of training. I don't care what your personal opinion is. Your personal opinion is wrong.
Wolverine also takes a lot of damage because he has to. Is Gambit, Jubilee, or Beast gonna absorb the enemy's fire? No. It falls to people like Wolverine. Why does he go right after the Hulk or Magneto? Because he takes the pain so the others can exploit the openings. How does Wolverine take on someone like Spider-Man? His training. Hulk? Training. Omega Red (When he was something to be feared)? Training. Batman doesn't go up against the threats Wolverine does. Wolverine consistantly fights people that dwarf him in power. Batman does not. He avoids the fights he knows he can't win. Wolverine doesn't care. Does that make Bats a better fighter? No.
A perfect example of Logan using SKILL is every time he fights Sabretooth. Right now Sabretooth is stronger, faster, and has a better healing factor, as well as adamantium. Why does Wolverine still have more victories? Because he is far better trained and has more skill than Sabretooth.
Just because Wolverine doesn't fight with his whole skill set, doesn't mean it's not there. It makes no sense to use a Leapard Blow against Sabretooth. It's not going to do anything to him. Look at the times Wolverine has had no powers.
Frank Tieri: Wolverine and Beast are depowered and thrown into a metahuman prison. Every meta villian in the prison knows who Wolverine is and they all want him dead. Every day Wolverine fights basically the entire prison by himself, and the worst anyone can do to get at him is go after Beast, who is useless in human form. Wolverine takes down the The Absorbing Man a former pro boxer of Heavyweight Gold calibur without ever throwing a punch and proceeds to tell him that "There are about 43 ways to kill ya right now, pick one." Wolverine then fends off a prison riot by himself before being shocked into oblivion by about 20 guards with cattle prods, not even bothering to fight the guards.
Is Batman going to fend off an entire prison by himself? Because Wolverine has. With no claws, no healing factor, no nothing. Just him and his two fists, all the while protecting Hank McCoy.
I also deny Batman could beat him because Wolverine(Mr. 43 ways to kill you from this position) is an assassin. Batman is not. Wolverine also has more heart than Batman. Wolverine has dealt with more *hit when he had no powers than you seem to realize. He beat Deathbird (trainer of Gladiator) with no powers, Fought off Lady Deathstrike, Omega Red, Sabretooth, Cyber, Bloodsport/scream, Cylla, as well as Omega Red and Deathstrike at the same time. He has been pumped full of automatic machine gun fire in Genosha with no powers and still managed to get back up to fight. His ability to take untold damage with no working healing factor (while being poisoned by his adamantium) is way higher than anything Batman could take. Putting Wolverine with no powers against Batman is simply like putting Wolverine against Sabretooth. hE WINS ANYWAY.
First of all, Batman doesn't train hard? Yeah right, why don't YOU get real. Batman has trained himself to be peak human physical strength with nothing more than will and hard work. He didn't have any mutant powers to augment his strength OR any super soldier serum. Nothing. Even when his back was broken, he still trained himself and was even then lifting 300lbs. He also has training simulations in his batcave and works all the time to perfect his martial art skills. So don't even try and tell me for one second that Batman doesn't train hard, I'd even say he trains harder than Wolverine because he has to. He can't rely on any power but he can rely on his training. He competes regularly with superpowered guys with NO powers of his own so he needs to train all the time.
Now, if you take away ALL of Wolverine's powers including the adamantium (claws, healing factor, enhanced strength, senses, enhanced agility, enhanced speed, etc...) then he just becomes a short fury guy that loves to brawl. Now, Batman has delt with his fair share of brawlers and has overcome them all. Most of the incidents you mentioned btw, are when he still had some powers on hand. The one about fighting Omega Red and LD at the same time is a bullshit thing to bring up because they could have killed him if they wanted to. They even admitted that they just wanted to have some fun with him. Even then he still got his ass handed to him by them. Him taking on Spider-man, Hulk, and Omega Red because of skill is simply laughable. Skill ain't gonna help him against any of these guys cause he hasn't defeated them yet. Hulk and Omega Red both beat his ass and show me one fight he had with Spider-man that WASN'T PIS. Wolverine never shows the kind of skill that Batman does in a comic on a regular basis. Him rushing in swinging at Batman would actually work against him because Batman knows how to use an opponents offense against them in a fight, as he has demonstrated before. You can claim he has 100 years of fighting and it still doesn't change the fact that he never shows the level of skill that Batman does in every comic. As I stated before, in pure skill, Batman wins 8/10.
Originally posted by batdude123
First of all, Batman doesn't train hard? Yeah right, why don't YOU get real. Batman has trained himself to be peak human physical strength with nothing more than will and hard work. He didn't have any mutant powers to augment his strength OR any super soldier serum. Nothing. Even when his back was broken, he still trained himself and was even then lifting 300lbs. He also has training simulations in his batcave and works all the time to perfect his martial art skills. So don't even try and tell me for one second that Batman doesn't train hard, I'd even say he trains harder than Wolverine because he has to. He can't rely on any power but he can rely on his training. He competes regularly with superpowered guys with NO powers of his own so he needs to train all the time.Now, if you take away ALL of Wolverine's powers including the adamantium (claws, healing factor, enhanced strength, senses, enhanced agility, enhanced speed, etc...) then he just becomes a short fury guy that loves to brawl. Now, Batman has delt with his fair share of brawlers and has overcome them all. Most of the incidents you mentioned btw, are when he still had some powers on hand. The one about fighting Omega Red and LD at the same time is a bullshit thing to bring up because they could have killed him if they wanted to. They even admitted that they just wanted to have some fun with him. Even then he still got his ass handed to him by them. Him taking on Spider-man, Hulk, and Omega Red because of skill is simply laughable. Skill ain't gonna help him against any of these guys cause he hasn't defeated them yet. Hulk and Omega Red both beat his ass and show me one fight he had with Spider-man that WASN'T PIS. Wolverine never shows the kind of skill that Batman does in a comic on a regular basis. Him rushing in swinging at Batman would actually work against him because Batman knows how to use an opponents offense against them in a fight, as he has demonstrated before. You can claim he has 100 years of fighting and it still doesn't change the fact that he never shows the level of skill that Batman does in every comic. As I stated before, in pure skill, Batman wins 8/10.
wolverine is not a brawler. he is a master of combat there is a huge diffrence.
also on average wolverine fight far more skill opponets. yes batman faces soem skileld opponet sbut on average he fight low life criminals while wolverine fights assassins and ninjas.
also us ay batman uses mroe skills prove it. hell wolverine last issue was wolverien defeating a rebot caled shiva who was desighned not only to know every weapon -x subject fighting style it was created to kill him and ahs all superhuman abilties along with rapair ssystem and wolverine killed it in a single move.
also wolverine has juist regained all his memories amping up his fight abilties to more then likly double.
aactauly a lot of wolverine fighting hulk is due to speed and skills. also wolevrine ebat hulk as death wolevrien and also beat hulk is wolverine vs hulk number 8. he also KO hulk in hulk 340.
spiderman has lsot to wolverine once and has never once beaten wolevrine. alot of wolevrine abiltiy to tag spiderman is due to hsi speed and fighting skills also u righting it off as PIS does not help u at all.
in pure skill batman is not on wolverines level
lets see some of batmans skills u keep saying the wolverine does not show.
well he has done the leopard blow and faced superhumans like Killer Croc on multiple occasions. Seriously he outclasses Wolvie in skills cause he has to be better. To do what he does and face who he does without any healing or super powers he needs to be that good. Wolvie depends on his powers. I mean the number of times he just runs and lets the bullets hit him. or uses his superhuman speed and strength without it he wouldn't be as good as Bats.
Originally posted by Superherovandal
well he has done the leopard blow and faced superhumans like Killer Croc on multiple occasions. Seriously he outclasses Wolvie in skills cause he has to be better. To do what he does and face who he does without any healing or super powers he needs to be that good. Wolvie depends on his powers. I mean the number of times he just runs and lets the bullets hit him. or uses his superhuman speed and strength without it he wouldn't be as good as Bats.
Originally posted by Superherovandal
and with no powers going beserker would only hurt wolvie cause it would make him wayy more vulnerable to attack because he'd be fighting stupid.
Originally posted by capt it up
wow the leapord blow how amaazing im not impressed.
killer croc wow big whoop the dude a idiot. whats his strength level? also batman take shim with gadgets.
wolevrien fight rough-house with his fists and wins all the time. by the way rough-house is class 75-100 tons. ya so bats little feat is not very impressive at all and batman has to use items.
wolverine lets bullets hit him he can simply dodge them. also ur not very up to date on wolverine. wolverine fight people who are pwoerful enough to put him down and he uses his skills to beat them. also wolverine has lsot his mutant powers a few times and every tiem he still kicks the crap outa pritty much any one. just ebcuase bats does not have powers does not make him a better fighter then wolverine thats liek say clint barton is the best fighter in amrvel becuase he has no powers.
again wolverine out classes batmans skills
You keep mentioning guys that Wolverine has beat but even then he had his mutant abilities. He uses his senses to sense what move his oponnent is going to make. Even then, his enhanced speed helps in the fighting process as well. With EVERY SINGLE ONE of Wolverine's powers gone, including the adamantium, name a person who Wolverine has beaten that is on Batman's level of skill.
Originally posted by capt it up
this post is very long and i kinda don't even wanna bother pionting out whats wrong becuase if mines not as long I feel like I did not do my job. batman does train hard very true.
diffrence is batman has a job to run and has a second life entirly that has nuthing to do with batman.
wolverine on the other hand life is pritty much just being wolverine and doe snot ahve the worries that batman has which means he has far more tiem to train which he does. Wolverien also can train far longer and more constantly then batman ebcuas ehe does not tire nearly as fast. Also wolverine was for a tiem on every x-men team and the aveneger so u can not even say batman has the same work out as wolverine. wolverine was constantly on mission which is the same as training and even when he had down time he was always found in the danger room.
wolverine has also used the dangeroom so much at times that his teamates have asked him to stop. wolverine also goe son tripps around the world devoted to training and fighting the best he can fight.
the diffreence in there training is huge wolverine spends far mroe time fighting and training then batman does and then u add in the fact he has over 10 tiems the experience then it easy to see batman fighting ability is not up to wolverine level.wolverine is not a brawler. he is a master of combat there is a huge diffrence.
also on average wolverine fight far more skill opponets. yes batman faces soem skileld opponet sbut on average he fight low life criminals while wolverine fights assassins and ninjas.
also us ay batman uses mroe skills prove it. hell wolverine last issue was wolverien defeating a rebot caled shiva who was desighned not only to know every weapon -x subject fighting style it was created to kill him and ahs all superhuman abilties along with rapair ssystem and wolverine killed it in a single move.
also wolverine has juist regained all his memories amping up his fight abilties to more then likly double.aactauly a lot of wolverine fighting hulk is due to speed and skills. also wolevrine ebat hulk as death wolevrien and also beat hulk is wolverine vs hulk number 8. he also KO hulk in hulk 340.
spiderman has lsot to wolverine once and has never once beaten wolevrine. alot of wolevrine abiltiy to tag spiderman is due to hsi speed and fighting skills also u righting it off as PIS does not help u at all.in pure skill batman is not on wolverines level
lets see some of batmans skills u keep saying the wolverine does not show.
Why don't YOU post some scans of Wolverine not being an animal and hacking and slashing at people but instead, him showing the same amount of skill that Batman shows on a consitant basis, WITHOUT ANY OF HIS POWERS.
Wolverine fights people great, but he also relies on his mutant powers to get him through the fight. His skills are great, but he relies on his mutant abilities to augment his fighting skills. W/o any of his powers, he wouldn't have anything to fall back on. He uses everything he has in his fights. Take those away from him and he just becomes another pretty good fighter.
Originally posted by batdude123
You keep mentioning guys that Wolverine has beat but even then he had his mutant abilities. He uses his senses to sense what move his oponnent is going to make. Even then, his enhanced speed helps in the fighting process as well. With EVERY SINGLE ONE of Wolverine's powers gone, including the adamantium, name a person who Wolverine has beaten that is on Batman's level of skill.
Originally posted by capt it up
I mention one guy and u mention that batman beat creed and creed abilties are far less then that of rough-house and batman used his gadgets.
how about u bring up some people batman has defeated with relieing on his gadgets first and then I tell u people wolverien has beaten with out the use of his powers.
I think you mean "without" relying on his gadgets. 😄
Originally posted by batdude123
Wolverine fights people great, but he also relies on his mutant powers to get him through the fight. His skills are great, but he relies on his mutant abilities to augment his fighting skills. W/o any of his powers, he wouldn't have anything to fall back on. He uses everything he has in his fights. Take those away from him and he just becomes another pretty good fighter.