Originally posted by Solidus Snake
batman is not stupid. when he realizes taht wolvie can take super human level damage, he'll take out wolvies eyes. ear bang him to pop his eardrums (repeatedly)and give him nerve strikes to immobilize him.bats is faster than wolvie. how do i know this? wolvie is a damage magnet. in the beginning of a fight (b4 the berzerker mode kicks in) u feel he intentionally goes out to get sliced and diced or shot up because he knows he'll survive? no. wolverine is a damage magnet cause he cant move fast enough. batman as i said will blind him, deafen him, either stay downwind or bloody up his nose to mask his scent. then he'll take him apart.
even if wolvie had his claws i feel this would happen. i dont think wolvie would win. hed land afew hits on bats before bats realized what he was.
batman's most dangerous weapon is his mind. theres no way hes gonna brawl with a man who can take wolverine level damage.
😆 🤣 😂
Yeah and Logan is gonna stand there while he does all of this right?
Originally posted by riceroost
Wolverine kills Batman. There is no way Batman stands a chance against him.Physical Stats:
All of Wolverine's physical abilities are beyond peak human.
Strength: never been clearly determined, but it is way more than Bat's
Feats:
-Punched Rogue through a brick wall.
-Knocked out Roughouse with punches. (level 5 durability)
-Drop Kicked Hulk to the ground.
-Thrown Colossus (500 lbs.) with enough force to knock over the Juggernaut.
-Lifted up 7-10 mercenaries with one arm.
-Breaks chains designed to hold large animals like Bulls or Elephants.Speed: again, never clearly determined, but it is well beyond human.
Feats:
-chases down wild animals.
-moves faster than human eyes can follow.
-able to dodge automatic gunfire from several shooters.
-Spider-Man alluded to the fact that Wolverine was faster than he was.
-Wolverine manages to hit/slash Spider-Man on a regular basis.
-able to hit Nighcrawler in between teleports on a regular basis.(reflexes)Durability/Toughness: Nothing much needs to be said about this.
Feats:
-taken punches from Hulk and not been knocked out.
-gets shot 1,000's of times and ignores it.
-fights on despite being impaled.
-Hit by a stealth bomber at full speed and gets back up unharmed.
-jumped off SHIELD Helicarrier and fell thousands of feet, crashing into a building, and gets riht back up.Fighting Experience:
Wolverine started cage fighting around the year 1900. During this time he was able to take out experienced fighters (Smitty) who had oriental MA training with ease.
So roughly over 100 years of fighting experience.
We'll give Batman...15-20.Training:
-Wolverine trained under Ogun before WW2. Samurai, Ninja, and massive amounts of other Oriental Martial Arts styles.
-Wolverine recieved basic military training/special forces training as a part of his service in WW1 AND 2.
-During WW2 Wolverine fights beter against Hand Ninjas than Captain America.
-Wolverine recieves CIA, Secret Service, black ops/special ops, assassin training in his tme with the government.
-taught Kitty Pryde fighting style of Israeli Special Forces.
-Wolverine spends more time in the Danger Room than any other X-Man, usually with all safeties turned off.Batman: went on a training trip for about a decade. He did not spend the entire time learning to fight. He had to break down his trip, learning science, detective skils, escape artistry, etc.
As far as actual fighting ability is concerned Batman is not better than Wolverine. It would make no sense if he were. And even this is beside the point. Wolverine beat Ogun twice simply by going berserk. Ogun (arguably greatest MA in Marvel) was completely helpless against Wolverine. Wolverine is however very skilled, able to easily take down the likes of Shang-Chi Master of Kunf Fu in about 3 moves.
Any way you spin it, UberBat loses.
Wolverine wins.
But... faster than human eye can detect?❌
Faster than Spider-man. So VERY VERY ❌
Again, Spider-man says a lot of things.
Originally posted by jinzin
I still don't know about that...
Bruce isn't even peak human in ever aspect and Wolverine is at the very least his equal in skill (I think Wolverine is better but I'll throw Batman a bone). Even with out his healing factor Wolverine has better damage soak then Bruce and he is still a) faster and b) stronger.
For everybody who's not giving Batman's skills their credit and who think that Wolverine could beat him w/o his adamantium and healing factor:
Batman is a master of Haragei, a master who has expanded his physical senses over this plane of existence to another and thus becoming hyper aware of his surroundings without appearing to really being anything different from others. He is keenly aware of everything going on around him and also the microscopic and the astral world around himself. Furthermore he can feel that world around himself and thus being one of the most difficult targets for telepathy and also telepathic obfuscation. Along these lines the Bat has learnt and masters both the Sakki and Kiai. Kiai is the ability to feel the intent and thus be able to act accordingly. However Sakki is the force of the intention and with these three pillars the Bat can take the physical battle to another level, to the psychological, the mental plane. The Sakki and Kiai, completed with the mastery of Haragei can be used as physical weapons, a force of wills where every blow is even stronger than the physical ones. As a ninja and a master of haragei, Batman has learnt to cope without his sensory input, making him able to fight and function without any sort of handicap should he lose his sight or hearing, or other senses. The fact is that the Bat is far beyond the human senses and even though they are handy, they're not needed.
Chi is another facet and a tactic the Batman uses, much like Sakki, it can be projected through the combat. Batman has been shown, on numerous occasions, to be able to perform feats impossible to humans. He has been shown to kick down trees, punch through concrete and mortar walls. He has been shown to be able to lift up a stone totem that weighed over a ton. He can project his Chi out of his body and aid him physically, because of this it is no big feat for him to punch through living trees and walls. By focusing his Chi inside his body he can ignore the physical damage and pain he receives. Through his training, Batman has trained himself to ignore exhaustion, sleep deprivation, emotions and also pain and agony. To anyone looking at the Bat, there is nothing remotely human about him other than the chin. As a Bat, when under control, he feels no emotions, no fear, no love, he is completely indifferent to the world around himself and thus he is in tune with it as Tao teaches. He flows from one motion to another in the river of life, this granting him the sixth sense, intuism he always listens to, the thing that has saved his life on many occasions.
This form, this Tao was taught to him by Mistress Shao-La in the Himalayas. Bruce Wayne had heard about a master with great power residing in the mountains and the young boy wanted to learn more. He went to the master who'd teach him the Tao and also self-control. The light side of this force would give him the control over his emotions and the ability to be in tune with the world, but it wasn't enough for him. Bruce Wayne wanted power, true power and after Shao-La told him about Master H'Sien Tan he would venture out there and learn.
From H'Sien Tan Bruce Wayne learnt the path of personal power. He learnt from the man that he had two destinies and by choosing one of them he'd receive everything he had ever wanted and the second would make him nearly omnipotent. This path would be the path of personal power he sought to avenge and to protect. In time it would also consume him. This little story is part of the package H'Sien Tan taught Bruce. The acceptance. The acceptance of one's fate, one's death and one's power. It was also a craft he taught to Bruce, to know, to feel the world and the energies around himself, to harness those energies and glean answers from them. This form of spiritualism has served Bruce well, but also it has twisted him and he has found ways to distort it, making him appear the victim even if he has wanted it. From H'Sien Tan he also learnt a way to control himself, not just his emotions but his body. Bruce is capable of, instinctually, command his body to stop bleeding, force healing on himself and even more importantly, he is able to ignore the toll exhaustion and the lack of sleep inflicts on him. Also Tan taught him the way to slow down his heart, the flow of his blood, to the level of dying and yet remaining alive.
The dark forces of Tao, the greed, is a powerful mistress and because of this the person who wields these arts needs to be mentally strong to wrest the control lest it controls him in his path to power. This dark art comprises partly of alchemy and magic mixed in with the mental control and hypnotism and this is the most formidable teaching Tan had to give Bruce.
Batman is able to force his presence on others, much like the way the Wrath of God appears. He can grow in people's minds, project his terror on them and destroy their minds, but at the same time he can push his presence inwardly and just disappear from their mind's eye, right in front of them and none will know how nor why. Furthermore he has learnt the power of suggestion, the ability to appear as something else to anyone and this is the key behind his quick costume changes and his disappearances. To add to this, his skills in these arts have given him a willpower matched by nearly none as he can ignore anything and go through stone and rock. The last skill Tan gave to Bruce was the art of the Tiger Fist, a punch so powerful it can rend through mountains, a skill, an art known to only 5 people on Earth and only 2 of them survive 'til this day.
As a ninja, a shadow assassin, Batman has been taught to use his surroundings to his advantage and so he knows when there are people in the correct vantage points, he knows how to conceal himself so that he is virtually invisible and he knows the ways to use the surroundings offensively. This lesson is part of the reason why the Bat was created in this visage. Bruce knows the hearts of the men and he can defeat them before engaging them in combat. In ancient times in Japan, the warrior caste, the Samurai, used the Ninja because their honor couldn't handle the deceitful tactics. However, Batman has no qualms with this and actually he uses quite a lot of deception as he does his work. Chu Chin Li and later on David Cain taught him the assassination tactics and skills, so he is aware of how a possible assassin will work and will think, and he can prepare against these situations.
Japanese sword fighting or Kendo is part of the Bushido class and way of life and also practiced by Batman and Bruce Wayne. From Bushido and Taothe Batman has taken the meditation skills taught to him by Shao-La for clearing his mind and his conscience, even if Alfred tends to call it brooding. Many a time the Bat has solved a case while meditating or sleeping, which is quite the same thing for him as he utilizes the sleeping techniques Shao-La taught him.
The ways of the Shadow Warrior are quite many and there are different rumors and different legends about the ninjas, and when concerning the Bat most of them hold true. However the main thing about the ninja is that they're adaptable and Batman has taken this strategy in his heart and cherishes it. He adapts to any situation and if he isn't able to conquer, he will find another way to do it.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Bruce isn't even peak human in ever aspect and Wolverine is at the very least his equal in skill (I think Wolverine is better but I'll throw Batman a bone). Even with out his healing factor Wolverine has better damage soak then Bruce and he is still a) faster and b) stronger.
When has Wolverine ever done something as impressive as kicking a huge tree down with one kick?
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Bruce isn't even peak human in ever aspect and Wolverine is at the very least his equal in skill (I think Wolverine is better but I'll throw Batman a bone). Even with out his healing factor Wolverine has better damage soak then Bruce and he is still a) faster and b) stronger.
I always thought his speed and strength were attributes that he had inherited due to his mutant powers... without em I don't think he'd be near as fast or strong.. but that's just MO... however I DO think batman is superior in h2h skill...
Originally posted by jinzin
I always thought his speed and strength were attributes that he had inherited due to his mutant powers... without em I don't think he'd be near as fast or strong.. but that's just MO... however I DO think batman is superior in h2h skill...
Wolverine was once forced to fight Arcangel with out his mutant abilities and he avoided every one of Arcangel feathers. He seems to still have superhuman attributes even with out his mutant healing factor.
Originally posted by batdude123
For everybody who's not giving Batman's skills their credit and who think that Wolverine could beat him w/o his adamantium and healing factor:Batman is a master of Haragei, a master who has expanded his physical senses over this plane of existence to another and thus becoming hyper aware of his surroundings without appearing to really being anything different from others. He is keenly aware of everything going on around him and also the microscopic and the astral world around himself. Furthermore he can feel that world around himself and thus being one of the most difficult targets for telepathy and also telepathic obfuscation. Along these lines the Bat has learnt and masters both the Sakki and Kiai. Kiai is the ability to feel the intent and thus be able to act accordingly. However Sakki is the force of the intention and with these three pillars the Bat can take the physical battle to another level, to the psychological, the mental plane. The Sakki and Kiai, completed with the mastery of Haragei can be used as physical weapons, a force of wills where every blow is even stronger than the physical ones. As a ninja and a master of haragei, Batman has learnt to cope without his sensory input, making him able to fight and function without any sort of handicap should he lose his sight or hearing, or other senses. The fact is that the Bat is far beyond the human senses and even though they are handy, they're not needed.
Chi is another facet and a tactic the Batman uses, much like Sakki, it can be projected through the combat. Batman has been shown, on numerous occasions, to be able to perform feats impossible to humans. He has been shown to kick down trees, punch through concrete and mortar walls. He has been shown to be able to lift up a stone totem that weighed over a ton. He can project his Chi out of his body and aid him physically, because of this it is no big feat for him to punch through living trees and walls. By focusing his Chi inside his body he can ignore the physical damage and pain he receives. Through his training, Batman has trained himself to ignore exhaustion, sleep deprivation, emotions and also pain and agony. To anyone looking at the Bat, there is nothing remotely human about him other than the chin. As a Bat, when under control, he feels no emotions, no fear, no love, he is completely indifferent to the world around himself and thus he is in tune with it as Tao teaches. He flows from one motion to another in the river of life, this granting him the sixth sense, intuism he always listens to, the thing that has saved his life on many occasions.
This form, this Tao was taught to him by Mistress Shao-La in the Himalayas. Bruce Wayne had heard about a master with great power residing in the mountains and the young boy wanted to learn more. He went to the master who'd teach him the Tao and also self-control. The light side of this force would give him the control over his emotions and the ability to be in tune with the world, but it wasn't enough for him. Bruce Wayne wanted power, true power and after Shao-La told him about Master H'Sien Tan he would venture out there and learn.
From H'Sien Tan Bruce Wayne learnt the path of personal power. He learnt from the man that he had two destinies and by choosing one of them he'd receive everything he had ever wanted and the second would make him nearly omnipotent. This path would be the path of personal power he sought to avenge and to protect. In time it would also consume him. This little story is part of the package H'Sien Tan taught Bruce. The acceptance. The acceptance of one's fate, one's death and one's power. It was also a craft he taught to Bruce, to know, to feel the world and the energies around himself, to harness those energies and glean answers from them. This form of spiritualism has served Bruce well, but also it has twisted him and he has found ways to distort it, making him appear the victim even if he has wanted it. From H'Sien Tan he also learnt a way to control himself, not just his emotions but his body. Bruce is capable of, instinctually, command his body to stop bleeding, force healing on himself and even more importantly, he is able to ignore the toll exhaustion and the lack of sleep inflicts on him. Also Tan taught him the way to slow down his heart, the flow of his blood, to the level of dying and yet remaining alive.
The dark forces of Tao, the greed, is a powerful mistress and because of this the person who wields these arts needs to be mentally strong to wrest the control lest it controls him in his path to power. This dark art comprises partly of alchemy and magic mixed in with the mental control and hypnotism and this is the most formidable teaching Tan had to give Bruce.
Batman is able to force his presence on others, much like the way the Wrath of God appears. He can grow in people's minds, project his terror on them and destroy their minds, but at the same time he can push his presence inwardly and just disappear from their mind's eye, right in front of them and none will know how nor why. Furthermore he has learnt the power of suggestion, the ability to appear as something else to anyone and this is the key behind his quick costume changes and his disappearances. To add to this, his skills in these arts have given him a willpower matched by nearly none as he can ignore anything and go through stone and rock. The last skill Tan gave to Bruce was the art of the Tiger Fist, a punch so powerful it can rend through mountains, a skill, an art known to only 5 people on Earth and only 2 of them survive 'til this day.
As a ninja, a shadow assassin, Batman has been taught to use his surroundings to his advantage and so he knows when there are people in the correct vantage points, he knows how to conceal himself so that he is virtually invisible and he knows the ways to use the surroundings offensively. This lesson is part of the reason why the Bat was created in this visage. Bruce knows the hearts of the men and he can defeat them before engaging them in combat. In ancient times in Japan, the warrior caste, the Samurai, used the Ninja because their honor couldn't handle the deceitful tactics. However, Batman has no qualms with this and actually he uses quite a lot of deception as he does his work. Chu Chin Li and later on David Cain taught him the assassination tactics and skills, so he is aware of how a possible assassin will work and will think, and he can prepare against these situations.
Japanese sword fighting or Kendo is part of the Bushido class and way of life and also practiced by Batman and Bruce Wayne. From Bushido and Taothe Batman has taken the meditation skills taught to him by Shao-La for clearing his mind and his conscience, even if Alfred tends to call it brooding. Many a time the Bat has solved a case while meditating or sleeping, which is quite the same thing for him as he utilizes the sleeping techniques Shao-La taught him.
The ways of the Shadow Warrior are quite many and there are different rumors and different legends about the ninjas, and when concerning the Bat most of them hold true. However the main thing about the ninja is that they're adaptable and Batman has taken this strategy in his heart and cherishes it. He adapts to any situation and if he isn't able to conquer, he will find another way to do it.
Jesus Christ, you need some fresh air.
Wolverine wins 10/10