Wolverine Vs. Batman (NO WEAPONS)

Started by jinzin19 pages

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Wolverine was once forced to fight Arcangel with out his mutant abilities and he avoided every one of Arcangel feathers. He seems to still have superhuman attributes even with out his mutant healing factor.

hmm interesting... I'm still trying to rationalize how wolverine's body may change due to a loss of super powers...

for instance, were he to grow up with the same training etc but NEVER had the mutant super powers to begin with could he have produced the same feat? did he retain SOME amount od his superstrength while his powers were in a dormant state? I don't know.. but that's the question isn't it?

Originally posted by jinzin
hmm interesting... I'm still trying to rationalize how wolverine's body may change due to a loss of super powers...

for instance, were he to grow up with the same training etc but NEVER had the mutant super powers to begin with could he have produced the same feat? did he retain SOME amount od his superstrength while his powers were in a dormant state? I don't know.. but that's the question isn't it?

I always just assumed his attributes where enhanced by his intense training. Ogun was a human himself but he was said to be strong enough to kill a Buffalo with a casual slap... I figured Wolverine's superhuman stats stemed from his training with Ogun.

Originally posted by samishe
Wolverine wins.
But... faster than human eye can detect?❌
Faster than Spider-man. So VERY VERY ❌
Again, Spider-man says a lot of things.

Frank Tieri's run on Wolverine. Wolverine is surrounded by 5-7 guys with their guns drawn and aimed at Wolverine. Suddenly all their guns fall apart in their hands. Wolverine slashed all the guns so fast they didn't know he had moved.

SvsW#1: Spider-Man said Wolverine was faster than him.
Marvel Team-Up: Wolverine nails Spider-Man a couple of times no problem.
Spider-Man: Perceptions - Wolverine grabs Spider-Man by the throat and slams him into a tree before he can do anything about it.
Marvel Knights Spider-Man: Spidey webs Wolverine to a wall and Wolverine rips apart the webbing, launches at Spider-Man and slashes him across the stomach before Spidey can move.

Spider-Man is more AGILE than Wolverine, but their Speed seems pretty close.

Originally posted by GODSCRIBE
Jesus Christ, you need some fresh air.

Wolverine wins 10/10

I never said that Wolverine wouldn't win. Under normal circumstances, I guarantee that Wolverine would win almost every time. I'm sayin that w/o any of Wolverine's mutant powers, Batman would perhaps win the majority. Did you actually even read the whole thing anyway?

Originally posted by batdude123
When has Wolverine ever done something as impressive as kicking a huge tree down with one kick?

wolverine pick up a huge tree looking thing like a base ball bat and hitting a creature of pure energy.
http://img485.imageshack.us/my.php?image=anotherstrengthfeat7pr.jpg

this is more impressive

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I always just assumed his attributes where enhanced by his intense training. Ogun was a human himself but he was said to be strong enough to kill a Buffalo with a casual slap... I figured Wolverine's superhuman stats stemed from his training with Ogun.

Ogun was far from a human.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I always just assumed his attributes where enhanced by his intense training. Ogun was a human himself but he was said to be strong enough to kill a Buffalo with a casual slap... I figured Wolverine's superhuman stats stemed from his training with Ogun.

hmm this could be true I hadn't considered this.

Originally posted by batdude123
For everybody who's not giving Batman's skills their credit and who think that Wolverine could beat him w/o his adamantium and healing factor:

Batman is a master of Haragei, a master who has expanded his physical senses over this plane of existence to another and thus becoming hyper aware of his surroundings without appearing to really being anything different from others. He is keenly aware of everything going on around him and also the microscopic and the astral world around himself. Furthermore he can feel that world around himself and thus being one of the most difficult targets for telepathy and also telepathic obfuscation. Along these lines the Bat has learnt and masters both the Sakki and Kiai. Kiai is the ability to feel the intent and thus be able to act accordingly. However Sakki is the force of the intention and with these three pillars the Bat can take the physical battle to another level, to the psychological, the mental plane. The Sakki and Kiai, completed with the mastery of Haragei can be used as physical weapons, a force of wills where every blow is even stronger than the physical ones. As a ninja and a master of haragei, Batman has learnt to cope without his sensory input, making him able to fight and function without any sort of handicap should he lose his sight or hearing, or other senses. The fact is that the Bat is far beyond the human senses and even though they are handy, they're not needed.

Chi is another facet and a tactic the Batman uses, much like Sakki, it can be projected through the combat. Batman has been shown, on numerous occasions, to be able to perform feats impossible to humans. He has been shown to kick down trees, punch through concrete and mortar walls. He has been shown to be able to lift up a stone totem that weighed over a ton. He can project his Chi out of his body and aid him physically, because of this it is no big feat for him to punch through living trees and walls. By focusing his Chi inside his body he can ignore the physical damage and pain he receives. Through his training, Batman has trained himself to ignore exhaustion, sleep deprivation, emotions and also pain and agony. To anyone looking at the Bat, there is nothing remotely human about him other than the chin. As a Bat, when under control, he feels no emotions, no fear, no love, he is completely indifferent to the world around himself and thus he is in tune with it as Tao teaches. He flows from one motion to another in the river of life, this granting him the sixth sense, intuism he always listens to, the thing that has saved his life on many occasions.

This form, this Tao was taught to him by Mistress Shao-La in the Himalayas. Bruce Wayne had heard about a master with great power residing in the mountains and the young boy wanted to learn more. He went to the master who'd teach him the Tao and also self-control. The light side of this force would give him the control over his emotions and the ability to be in tune with the world, but it wasn't enough for him. Bruce Wayne wanted power, true power and after Shao-La told him about Master H'Sien Tan he would venture out there and learn.

From H'Sien Tan Bruce Wayne learnt the path of personal power. He learnt from the man that he had two destinies and by choosing one of them he'd receive everything he had ever wanted and the second would make him nearly omnipotent. This path would be the path of personal power he sought to avenge and to protect. In time it would also consume him. This little story is part of the package H'Sien Tan taught Bruce. The acceptance. The acceptance of one's fate, one's death and one's power. It was also a craft he taught to Bruce, to know, to feel the world and the energies around himself, to harness those energies and glean answers from them. This form of spiritualism has served Bruce well, but also it has twisted him and he has found ways to distort it, making him appear the victim even if he has wanted it. From H'Sien Tan he also learnt a way to control himself, not just his emotions but his body. Bruce is capable of, instinctually, command his body to stop bleeding, force healing on himself and even more importantly, he is able to ignore the toll exhaustion and the lack of sleep inflicts on him. Also Tan taught him the way to slow down his heart, the flow of his blood, to the level of dying and yet remaining alive.

The dark forces of Tao, the greed, is a powerful mistress and because of this the person who wields these arts needs to be mentally strong to wrest the control lest it controls him in his path to power. This dark art comprises partly of alchemy and magic mixed in with the mental control and hypnotism and this is the most formidable teaching Tan had to give Bruce.

Batman is able to force his presence on others, much like the way the Wrath of God appears. He can grow in people's minds, project his terror on them and destroy their minds, but at the same time he can push his presence inwardly and just disappear from their mind's eye, right in front of them and none will know how nor why. Furthermore he has learnt the power of suggestion, the ability to appear as something else to anyone and this is the key behind his quick costume changes and his disappearances. To add to this, his skills in these arts have given him a willpower matched by nearly none as he can ignore anything and go through stone and rock. The last skill Tan gave to Bruce was the art of the Tiger Fist, a punch so powerful it can rend through mountains, a skill, an art known to only 5 people on Earth and only 2 of them survive 'til this day.

As a ninja, a shadow assassin, Batman has been taught to use his surroundings to his advantage and so he knows when there are people in the correct vantage points, he knows how to conceal himself so that he is virtually invisible and he knows the ways to use the surroundings offensively. This lesson is part of the reason why the Bat was created in this visage. Bruce knows the hearts of the men and he can defeat them before engaging them in combat. In ancient times in Japan, the warrior caste, the Samurai, used the Ninja because their honor couldn't handle the deceitful tactics. However, Batman has no qualms with this and actually he uses quite a lot of deception as he does his work. Chu Chin Li and later on David Cain taught him the assassination tactics and skills, so he is aware of how a possible assassin will work and will think, and he can prepare against these situations.

Japanese sword fighting or Kendo is part of the Bushido class and way of life and also practiced by Batman and Bruce Wayne. From Bushido and Taothe Batman has taken the meditation skills taught to him by Shao-La for clearing his mind and his conscience, even if Alfred tends to call it brooding. Many a time the Bat has solved a case while meditating or sleeping, which is quite the same thing for him as he utilizes the sleeping techniques Shao-La taught him.

The ways of the Shadow Warrior are quite many and there are different rumors and different legends about the ninjas, and when concerning the Bat most of them hold true. However the main thing about the ninja is that they're adaptable and Batman has taken this strategy in his heart and cherishes it. He adapts to any situation and if he isn't able to conquer, he will find another way to do it.

Wolverine knows all this, and he's had 100 more years than Bruce to learn everything else about fighting Bruce didn't learn.

Originally posted by capt it up
wolverine pick up a huge tree looking thing like a base ball bat and hitting a creature of pure energy.
http://img485.imageshack.us/my.php?image=anotherstrengthfeat7pr.jpg

this is more impressive

Not even close. Kicking down a tree is WAY more impressive. But Wolverine is strongers cause he kicked down the Hulk. THAT is more impressive than kicking down the tree, not picking one up.

Originally posted by jinzin
hmm this could be true I hadn't considered this.

naw his superhuman abilkties im pritty sure all from his powers.

Originally posted by batdude123
Ogun was far from a human.

Ogun (like Stick) has surpassed everything considered to be the realm of humanly possible through training alone. He, like Wolverine, was born a human.

Originally posted by batdude123
Not even close. Kicking down a tree is WAY more impressive. But Wolverine is strongers cause he kicked down the Hulk. THAT is more impressive than kicking down the tree, not picking one up.

pick a tree up and swinging it like a abse ball bat is more impressive then kicking one down in my oppion.

Originally posted by riceroost
Wolverine knows all this, and he's had 100 more years than Bruce to learn everything else about fighting Bruce didn't learn.

Dude, did you even read all of this? Cause I seriously doubt you did. Wolverine's experience doesn't necessarily means he's a better martial artist. Wolverine fighting consits mainly of him hacking and slashing aimlessly like a wild animal. When has Wolverine demonstrated Haragei, Sakki, Kiai, Chi, the Tiger Fist (Which only two people in the WORLD know and Batman is one of them), or has been able to force his presence on others (much like the Wrath of God)?

Originally posted by capt it up
pick a tree up and swinging it like a abse ball bat is more impressive then kicking one down in my oppion.

I gaurentee that it takes more strength to kick one down, but don't worry, I'm acknowledging that Wolverine is stronger. 😄

Originally posted by batdude123
Dude, did you even read all of this? Cause I seriously doubt you did. Wolverine's experience doesn't necessarily means he's a better martial artist. Wolverine fighting consits mainly of him hacking and slashing aimlessly like a wild animal. When has Wolverine demonstrated Haragei, Sakki, Kiai, Chi, the Tiger Fist (Which only two people in the WORLD know and Batman is one of them), or has been able to force his presence on others (much like the Wrath of God)?

see u do know kow what ur talken about. wolverine aim and slash are perfect and he created his own style.
u honestly don't read wolverine so i don't know why i bothering

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Ogun (like Stick) has surpassed everything considered to be the realm of humanly possible through training alone. He, like Wolverine, was born a human.

... And then he turned into a powerful sorceror who lived for a thousands years and he could bind others to his will and could possess other people's bodies.

Originally posted by capt it up
naw his superhuman abilkties im pritty sure all from his powers.
Wolverine does retain a measure of enhanced speed and strength when he doesn't have his powers. He still took out 4 guards during Extinction Agenda with an inhibitor collar on. And that was only using his legs. His hands were manacled to his back. Even when Wolverine didn't have enhanced strength he was supposed to be a hell of a lot stronger than any normal man. He tossed Colossus at the Juggernaut hard enough to knock him over. This was before Wolverine was supposed to have Enhanced Strength, and he was chucking around 500lb Colossus like he was a rag doll.

Originally posted by capt it up
see u do know kow what ur talken about. wolverine aim and slash are perfect and he created his own style.
u honestly don't read wolverine so i don't know why i bothering

I do read Wolverine. Don't assume that I don't. Let's try and not make this personal here. They're just comics for God's sake. Anyway, as of late, Wolverine hasn't shown any amount of skill that would put him on Batman's level of skill, regardless of what the stupidass handbooks say.

Originally posted by batdude123
Dude, did you even read all of this? Cause I seriously doubt you did. Wolverine's experience doesn't necessarily means he's a better martial artist. Wolverine fighting consits mainly of him hacking and slashing aimlessly like a wild animal.
Wolverine beat Ogun twice wailing away like an animal. Didn't even use an ounce of skill. Who needs to know all that bat mumbo jumbo when your natural ability to brawl is better than all the skills of the world's greatest martial artist?

Originally posted by batdude123
Anyway, as of late, Wolverine hasn't shown any amount of skill that would put him on Batman's level of skill, regardless of what the stupidass handbooks say.
That's because we get morons like Millar writing the book who don't know jack about the character. If it was Claremont you see him using his skill to make people like Rogue and Colossus look like rank amateurs.