Revan
I have browsed in, posted, and been insulted in many Revan vs (movie character) threads and so I figured why not start a Revan discussion thread were he is not fighting anyone in some hypothetical duel. Revan haters and Revan lovers are welcome to duke it out. Pretty much there is no subject other than Revan himself. The movie loving fanboys/girls can argue all the lack of proven points about Revan while the Revan fanboys/girls can argue to why he is such an cool dude... 😮💨
Darth Revan was originally a very cool character. But as with NJO Luke - the creators and fans take these characters to the extremes. All of a sudden, you hear that Revan would own anyone in a fight with his eyes closed and without a lightsaber and that sort of junk.
It's ridiculous. I want someone to make a character who will come along and kick Revan's ass and then Luke's. It is LONG LONG LONG overdue.
yes but a lot of the senior members here dont take revan or luke for that matter to the extreme
guys like emperor revan, fishy, glentract, himo kun, janus and myself only go by the things stated about revan in the game
its the stupid noobs who come up with this revan knows all shit, it gives revan supporters a bad name
Meh. Long overdue. Player Hater....
If anything is long overdue, it's the correction of the false view that Anakin/Vader is the über Jedi/Sith along with Sidious, Yoda, Luke, and Bob, of all time. I see a gross injustice going on in an EU forum, and the EU subforum of Versus, and it's clearly movie-bias. The reason for this? Those of you who cling to the movie so strongly you don't want to let go and believe that, hey... Serra can defeat ROTJ Luke. Exar Kun would eliminate Yoda or Sidious. Revan could outduel Dooku.
It's kind of funny... Luke's great accomplishments are 95% EU, and take place some time after the movies themselves. Some are written by the same author who created Exar Kun, who (in the author's own words) was able to destroy Jedi masters like it was his job. And yet, everyone brushes that aside, boosts Luke up on some god pedestal, and shout down those of us who use a bit of freethinking and evidence to support our claims.
You can't just say Luke is good and he's done this with one breath and brush aside other EU characters as if they mean nothing. Luke was little better than a clumsy padawan in the OT, and it was only in EU did he become something more. That includes the kaiburr crystal, the mad telekinesis, the mass slaughter of Vong.... all EU material.
But anyways, as for a realistic view of Revan's rank among duellists, his superiors include the following:
- Naga Sadow
- Marka Ragnos
- Tulak Hord
- Exar Kun
- Freedan Nadd (Presumably)
- Ludo Kressh
Note that they are all either true Sith, or are disciples of the dark side who lived out their potential (as Revan has not yet done). Also note none of the later Sith are shown. This includes Bane, Sidious, Dooku, Maul, and Vader. As for Plageus, I could only guess.
Janus Janus Janus, I remember one big as thread were you were claiming Revan would beat Exar... What happend to you man? But for the rest I agree...
Revan isn't all power neither are the movie characters, and I have seen more people that want movie people to be more powerful then they are then EU people. Logical of course because the movies are limited to some extent EU is not. Making EU people a lot more powerful a lot faster, don't like it don't post in EU.
Why does Janus think they can beat Revan? Except for Kun, they have one or two reasons max that supposedly make them strong though we know nothing about them. I think he simply believes most everyone from an earlier time frame at all could beat most everyone from 40 years later or something. He's not basing it on accomplishments, and what we KNOW about them. (no offense, long live the great Jawa revolution)
And I agree with Fishy, Revan could beat Exar but he, nor anyone else is all powerful.
If you want some info, Tulak Hord was the greatest Sith Duelest of all time, and he trained both Naga Sadow and Ludo Kresh, until his demise. Naga Sadow and Kresh were both in the Great Hyperspace War, but Kresh betrayed Sadow and Sadow had to flee to Yavin IV. Revan could own that ***** Kresh, but Sadow and Revan would be a great duel. As for that pansey-ass Exar Kun, Revan would have a run for his money. Only because Exar Kun wields the double-bladed saber, revan would have to think on his feet.
Originally posted by Darth_Janus
If anything is long overdue, it's the correction of the false view that Anakin/Vader is the über Jedi/Sith along with Sidious, Yoda, Luke, and Bob, of all time. I see a gross injustice going on in an EU forum, and the EU subforum of Versus, and it's clearly movie-bias. The reason for this? Those of you who cling to the movie so strongly you don't want to let go and believe that, hey... Serra can defeat ROTJ Luke. Exar Kun would eliminate Yoda or Sidious. Revan could outduel Dooku.
False view ?
Well...I do like the EU characters better than some of the movie characters. See...Exar Kun is my favourite character but still the "injustice" is nothing coming from the people that cling to the movies no...it's coming from the people that simply don't understand that there are differences in the fundamental working processes of the films, the EU (novels + comics) and the computer games.
In the movies all the force users are 100 % working on their own. They don't have any artifacts, they don't posess tons of holocrons with thousand years of knowledge stored within them and so on. They have their own force powers and their lightsabers. End.
Now the people in the books. Here it starts to get kind of unrealistic because people start to do nearly impossible things or lets say they have a little bit of logic missing. NJO series seems to be the best example. First Luke nearly gets killed by a YV warrior, Kyp Durron (quite powerful himself) hits them for dozens of times without being able to kill them and than Luke pretty much destroys thousands of them alone, one hit kills their greatest fighters, kills their leader and so on...
Basically some of the EU novel characters can't be compared to the guys in the film anymore.
With comics it even gets worse. In the JA novels Lukes spirit can't do very much at least he can do nearly nothing and Luke is some of the most powerful (or just the most powerful) force users ever. Now...in the comics you have 1,000 year old Sith Lord spirits running around, killing people, deceiding the faith of the galaxy. People blow up planets, stars or entire sun systems if they like to do so and everything even get hyped more than in the EU novels.
And the top of the "lets destroy the fundamental workings of the SW universe" is hit with the computer games. Suddenly people are able to survive 10 lightsaber strikes or 20 blaster hits. Kyle Katarn runs around killing 7 (!) Dark Jedi in lightsaber duels and mastering some force powers. He cuts to thousands of stormtroopers, destroys AT-STs and funny stuff like that and everything he did was done without ANY training with the force or with a lightsaber.
Revan and the Exile are even worse. "Oh look...I'm getting attacked by 2 Dark Jedi, 1 Sith Master, 2 Sith Assasins and 10 people shooting me with blasters at once. Still I kill them all without even getting close to die...hurgh hurgh..."
So...how do you want to compare all those people in a "fair" way. ? When you just take a look at what they did or possibly can do the game characters will destroy everyone in the comics, the guys in the comics will destroy everyone in the EU novels and the people in the EU novels will destroy everyone in the films.
It's kind of funny... Luke's great accomplishments are 95% EU, and take place some time after the movies themselves. Some are written by the same author who created Exar Kun, who (in the author's own words) was able to destroy Jedi masters like it was his job. And yet, everyone brushes that aside, boosts Luke up on some god pedestal, and shout down those of us who use a bit of freethinking and evidence to support our claims.
Well...I agree with you that some people simply seem to ignore the things said about the EU characters. And other people are ignoring facts given about the movie characters in the EU when discussing them. Think about Maul in the movies and then add the things stated in "Shadowhunter". Think about Mace in the movies and add the things told in "Shatterpoint" and so on...that are also "facts" that are often ignored.
You can't just say Luke is good and he's done this with one breath and brush aside other EU characters as if they mean nothing. Luke was little better than a clumsy padawan in the OT, and it was only in EU did he become something more. That includes the kaiburr crystal, the mad telekinesis, the mass slaughter of Vong.... all EU material.
Yes. It's EU material. Still nearly everything happening in the EU is just happening because of Luke. They design threats or powerful characters as opponents just to have Luke step on the scene and solve the problems. That's the reason why people like Exar Kun exist. And that is also the reason why the game characters are so powerful. The games are basically another part of the EU where every threat is created just to have the game character solve it (and therefore in every situation leave the oppinion that no one else could have done it - Could anybody except the Exile defeat Nihilus ? Could anybody have done what Revan did ? Possibly not. Still it's quite senseless to base arguments in versus threads on such things.) Think about it.
Originally posted by Darth Somebody
Darth Revan was originally a very cool character. But as with NJO Luke - the creators and fans take these characters to the extremes. All of a sudden, you hear that Revan would own anyone in a fight with his eyes closed and without a lightsaber and that sort of junk.It's ridiculous. I want someone to make a character who will come along and kick Revan's ass and then Luke's. It is LONG LONG LONG overdue.
Originally posted by Fishy
Janus Janus Janus, I remember one big as thread were you were claiming Revan would beat Exar... What happend to you man? But for the rest I agree...Revan isn't all power neither are the movie characters, and I have seen more people that want movie people to be more powerful then they are then EU people. Logical of course because the movies are limited to some extent EU is not. Making EU people a lot more powerful a lot faster, don't like it don't post in EU.
you must understand...training dogs change´s a man!
Lord.... all the replies I must make.
Fishy, that was before I read up on Exar Kun, I believe. In any case, based on what I know now, Kun would probably win in a pitched fight. I like Revan better, and he's probably smarter and more knowledgable... but Kun's raw power is immense. I can't say Revan has more at this point.
Emperor, I make all my judgments on the knowledge I have present, not time or anything so ridiculous as that. Look at the reputations, accomplishments, and situations of these earlier Sith lords, and compare them to Revan, who is, for all intents and purposes, just a rising star in the galactic backdrop of Sithdom. Later on, perhaps, he might outclass many. But for now, he is perhaps just below Kun.
Nai, you're right on comparisons are almost impossible to make, and Eu can take things to extreme. But that is the fault of game mechanics, EU works that read more like fanfiction than authorized material, and a lack of care on the part of Lucasarts for consistency. I mean, they released two versions of the marriage of Han Solo and Leia. What do you expect? But regardless, debate will always reign here. It's because of interest in the versus scenarios that we have an EU subforum. By general request.
the bad thing is we dont really know what the accomplishments or the fights or the powers ancient sith lords had ,like marka ragnos ,everyone says hes reeeaal powerful but no one really knows why. ragnos's rule went unchallenged and thats remarkable but that just says he MIGHT have great power it implies great power