I agree that Revan is not god, nor any other EU character, but their are a hell of a lotta fans for Revan because for the forty or so hours you played KOTOR, you were Revan so a lotta people kinda relate to him in that way.
Anyways, with Janus' list I'd say it's pretty accurate for a duel, although would'nt Ulic Qel-Droma be up there aswell (he was almost as good as Kun). But a think that their would be fewer more powerful force users out there, basically Revan would be ahead of Kun because Kun was still a night when he turned while Revan was apparently, a master.
What's so great about Revan? What powers did he possess that are so great. He was just a hotheaded jedi who accidently was corrupted by some unknown Dark Side power. He rebelled against the Jedi by entering the ruins of the Star Forge Map and eventually found the Star Forge. It was Revan's tactics that won the Mandalorian Wars, not his force potential, it was the Star Forges capabilities that terrorized the Republic, not Revans'. Sure he was a brilliant tactician, but he didn't use the force to coordinate his men and ships, like Palpatine. Bastilia, a padawan, proved that. He would have been killed by the Jedi if Malak hadn't turned on him. Also, neither Malak nor Revan were Sith. True Sith like Ragnos, Sadow, Kressh, Nadd,(kinda) Exar, and to some extent, the followers of Darth Banes code, Palpatine, Plagueis, perhaps Maul and Vader, yet not Dooku who was just a pawn in Palpatines gambit, and the other 20 or so generations of this strand, were all taught and learned in the teachings of Sith Magic and Sith History. REVAN and MALAK were just Dark Jedi (albeit powerful ones) who only took the name Dark Lord of the Sith because of Exar Kun's title, whom had reigned not forty years earlier, so they knew of it. Also, CHRONOLOGICALLY, the time of Darth Revan and Darth Malak were 4000 years before the Empire. Darth Bane was 1000 years before the Empire. The term Darth was only started after Bane was the only Sith left and created his own code, which included the apprentice killing the master to become Dark Lord. So when Bastilia stated that code on the Star Forge, she was 3000 years early. Darth was Bane's first name, Bane was coincidentally his last name, so another tradition was to create a name that sounded menacing, Plagueis, Maul, Sidious, Tyrannous, Vader. In conclusion, Revan AND Malak were ultimately inferior to the ancient Sith Race and to later generation of Sith who were actually taught in the ways of Sith Magic.
Originally posted by Tangible God
What's so great about Revan? What powers did he possess that are so great. He was just a hotheaded jedi who accidently was corrupted by some unknown Dark Side power. He rebelled against the Jedi by entering the ruins of the Star Forge Map and eventually found the Star Forge. It was Revan's tactics that won the Mandalorian Wars, not his force potential, it was the Star Forges capabilities that terrorized the Republic, not Revans'. Sure he was a brilliant tactician, but he didn't use the force to coordinate his men and ships, like Palpatine. Bastilia, a padawan, proved that. He would have been killed by the Jedi if Malak hadn't turned on him. Also, neither Malak nor Revan were Sith. True Sith like Ragnos, Sadow, Kressh, Nadd,(kinda) Exar, and to some extent, the followers of Darth Banes code, Palpatine, Plagueis, perhaps Maul and Vader, yet not Dooku who was just a pawn in Palpatines gambit, and the other 20 or so generations of this strand, were all taught and learned in the teachings of Sith Magic and Sith History. REVAN and MALAK were just Dark Jedi (albeit powerful ones) who only took the name Dark Lord of the Sith because of Exar Kun's title, whom had reigned not forty years earlier, so they knew of it. Also, CHRONOLOGICALLY, the time of Darth Revan and Darth Malak were 4000 years before the Empire. Darth Bane was 1000 years before the Empire. The term Darth was only started after Bane was the only Sith left and created his own code, which included the apprentice killing the master to become Dark Lord. So when Bastilia stated that code on the Star Forge, she was 3000 years early. Darth was Bane's first name, Bane was coincidentally his last name, so another tradition was to create a name that sounded menacing, Plagueis, Maul, Sidious, Tyrannous, Vader. In conclusion, Revan AND Malak were ultimately inferior to the ancient Sith Race and to later generation of Sith who were actually taught in the ways of Sith Magic.
First, True Sith were dead by Revan's time. They even extinct during Exar Kun's time. Revan was following the Sith Code, while Palpatine was not. How were they "Ultimately Inferior"? You state no reasons on how. And Malak and Revan knew Sith Magic. They were Sith. No matter how much you don't want to believe it, they were more Sith than any of the movie characters. They lived by the sith Code. Sidious didn't.
The Sith Code, BANE's code anyway, is to usurp the title of Dark Lord in the end, we don't know anything else on it except that there is only two at a time. Revan and Malak trained hundreds to thousands of disciples. They learned the Ancient Sith Code of how to understand the Darkside, "There is no weakness there is power, My Chains will be broken etc. etc..." But there is no proof that they learned Sith Magic and Sith Arts. They did what comes natural to Dark Side users yes, kill their masters to gain power, sabotage, backstab, live in secrecy, but this was not part of Sith Teachings. Palpatine used Sith Magic to instill his spirit in a clone body, like Plagueis knew. Sadow and his apprentices used Sith Magic to make the illusion of a bigger fleet than they had, and to rip a star's core from its socket and send it supernova. Little else is known on Sith Magic in any book or game, so not much evidence can be used. But the point is, Revan and Malak were not learned in the ways of the Sith Arts just the instincts and teachings common in ordinary Dark Side users. If they had the power of true Sith power at their backs as well as the Star Forge, the Republic would have fallen in months instead of ending up victorious in two and a half years. No real Sith Master would tolerate themselves being reprogrammed like Revan had. Even the Star Forge was only a product of the Dark Side. The Rakatan empire that built it was before the time of the Republic, the Jedi and the of course, the Sith.
Originally posted by Tangible God
What's so great about Revan? What powers did he possess that are so great. He was just a hotheaded jedi who accidently was corrupted by some unknown Dark Side power. He rebelled against the Jedi by entering the ruins of the Star Forge Map and eventually found the Star Forge. It was Revan's tactics that won the Mandalorian Wars, not his force potential, it was the Star Forges capabilities that terrorized the Republic, not Revans'. Sure he was a brilliant tactician, but he didn't use the force to coordinate his men and ships, like Palpatine. Bastilia, a padawan, proved that. He would have been killed by the Jedi if Malak hadn't turned on him. Also, neither Malak nor Revan were Sith. True Sith like Ragnos, Sadow, Kressh, Nadd,(kinda) Exar, and to some extent, the followers of Darth Banes code, Palpatine, Plagueis, perhaps Maul and Vader, yet not Dooku who was just a pawn in Palpatines gambit, and the other 20 or so generations of this strand, were all taught and learned in the teachings of Sith Magic and Sith History. REVAN and MALAK were just Dark Jedi (albeit powerful ones) who only took the name Dark Lord of the Sith because of Exar Kun's title, whom had reigned not forty years earlier, so they knew of it. Also, CHRONOLOGICALLY, the time of Darth Revan and Darth Malak were 4000 years before the Empire. Darth Bane was 1000 years before the Empire. The term Darth was only started after Bane was the only Sith left and created his own code, which included the apprentice killing the master to become Dark Lord. So when Bastilia stated that code on the Star Forge, she was 3000 years early. Darth was Bane's first name, Bane was coincidentally his last name, so another tradition was to create a name that sounded menacing, Plagueis, Maul, Sidious, Tyrannous, Vader. In conclusion, Revan AND Malak were ultimately inferior to the ancient Sith Race and to later generation of Sith who were actually taught in the ways of Sith Magic.
Look, some of your points are correct and I agree with some of them, but maybe if you were a little less bias against Revan more people might agree with you!
Originally posted by Tangible God
What's so great about Revan? What powers did he possess that are so great. He was just a hotheaded jedi who accidently was corrupted by some unknown Dark Side power. He rebelled against the Jedi by entering the ruins of the Star Forge Map and eventually found the Star Forge. It was Revan's tactics that won the Mandalorian Wars, not his force potential, it was the Star Forges capabilities that terrorized the Republic, not Revans'. Sure he was a brilliant tactician, but he didn't use the force to coordinate his men and ships, like Palpatine. Bastilia, a padawan, proved that. He would have been killed by the Jedi if Malak hadn't turned on him. Also, neither Malak nor Revan were Sith. True Sith like Ragnos, Sadow, Kressh, Nadd,(kinda) Exar, and to some extent, the followers of Darth Banes code, Palpatine, Plagueis, perhaps Maul and Vader, yet not Dooku who was just a pawn in Palpatines gambit, and the other 20 or so generations of this strand, were all taught and learned in the teachings of Sith Magic and Sith History. REVAN and MALAK were just Dark Jedi (albeit powerful ones) who only took the name Dark Lord of the Sith because of Exar Kun's title, whom had reigned not forty years earlier, so they knew of it. Also, CHRONOLOGICALLY, the time of Darth Revan and Darth Malak were 4000 years before the Empire. Darth Bane was 1000 years before the Empire. The term Darth was only started after Bane was the only Sith left and created his own code, which included the apprentice killing the master to become Dark Lord. So when Bastilia stated that code on the Star Forge, she was 3000 years early. Darth was Bane's first name, Bane was coincidentally his last name, so another tradition was to create a name that sounded menacing, Plagueis, Maul, Sidious, Tyrannous, Vader. In conclusion, Revan AND Malak were ultimately inferior to the ancient Sith Race and to later generation of Sith who were actually taught in the ways of Sith Magic.
you make very goo dpoints on some issues others well you don't know what you're talkin about. like revan i don't know what you'd call him cause he only used the darkside to help out the repblic you know the to save the galaxy he would conquer it to become the galaxies greatest hero he would become its greatest villan thing. and it was stated that revan was one of the first to use darth in as a title. and revan had the trayus acedemy to learn tons of ancient sith information and he and malak found new relics and such on korriban.
Originally posted by Tangible God
The Sith Code, BANE's code anyway, is to usurp the title of Dark Lord in the end, we don't know anything else on it except that there is only two at a time. Revan and Malak trained hundreds to thousands of disciples. They learned the Ancient Sith Code of how to understand the Darkside, "There is no weakness there is power, My Chains will be broken etc. etc..." But there is no proof that they learned Sith Magic and Sith Arts. They did what comes natural to Dark Side users yes, kill their masters to gain power, sabotage, backstab, live in secrecy, but this was not part of Sith Teachings. Palpatine used Sith Magic to instill his spirit in a clone body, like Plagueis knew. Sadow and his apprentices used Sith Magic to make the illusion of a bigger fleet than they had, and to rip a star's core from its socket and send it supernova. Little else is known on Sith Magic in any book or game, so not much evidence can be used. But the point is, Revan and Malak were not learned in the ways of the Sith Arts just the instincts and teachings common in ordinary Dark Side users. If they had the power of true Sith power at their backs as well as the Star Forge, the Republic would have fallen in months instead of ending up victorious in two and a half years. No real Sith Master would tolerate themselves being reprogrammed like Revan had. Even the Star Forge was only a product of the Dark Side. The Rakatan empire that built it was before the time of the Republic, the Jedi and the of course, the Sith.
and again revan wasn't tryin to rule the galaxy for the sith he was tryin to save it from an outside force. also again yes revan did learn sith magic from at least the trayus acedemy and the korriban acedemy.
Originally posted by Tangible God
The Sith Code, BANE's code anyway, is to usurp the title of Dark Lord in the end, we don't know anything else on it except that there is only two at a time. Revan and Malak trained hundreds to thousands of disciples. They learned the Ancient Sith Code of how to understand the Darkside, "There is no weakness there is power, My Chains will be broken etc. etc..." But there is no proof that they learned Sith Magic and Sith Arts. They did what comes natural to Dark Side users yes, kill their masters to gain power, sabotage, backstab, live in secrecy, but this was not part of Sith Teachings. Palpatine used Sith Magic to instill his spirit in a clone body, like Plagueis knew. Sadow and his apprentices used Sith Magic to make the illusion of a bigger fleet than they had, and to rip a star's core from its socket and send it supernova. Little else is known on Sith Magic in any book or game, so not much evidence can be used. But the point is, Revan and Malak were not learned in the ways of the Sith Arts just the instincts and teachings common in ordinary Dark Side users. If they had the power of true Sith power at their backs as well as the Star Forge, the Republic would have fallen in months instead of ending up victorious in two and a half years. No real Sith Master would tolerate themselves being reprogrammed like Revan had. Even the Star Forge was only a product of the Dark Side. The Rakatan empire that built it was before the time of the Republic, the Jedi and the of course, the Sith.
My god you are freakin moron. First of all the Jedi would not have been able to kill Revan had Malak not betrayed him and what is with this Bane crap that you pulled out of your ass? If you read the diaries on the KOTOR 2 website you will see that the game designers watched and read every piece of Star Wars literature so don't you think they would know about Bane if it was true? Another thing; what is wrong with not using the Force to win a battle? Revan was a brilliant tactician and had no need for cheap powers such as battle meditation and he did have Sith Magic since he had studied the Sith holocrons from Malacor V. Finally Revan was not a hothead Jedi and the Star Forge did not corrupt him. He resisted the urge of the Dark Side and yet at the same time still mastered it and the light side as well. Also, Revan was considered perhaps the most powerful Jedi/Sith of his time.
Dude next time you post make sure you add evidence to back up your points and don’t let your bias interfere.
At a young age Revan was considered to be extrordinarily powerful with nearly unlimited potential to the point where his master said that looking at him was like looking into the heart of the force.
-He quickly became a jedi master at the age of 25, the mandalorian wars broke out (the mandalorians being pretty much an army of jango fetts but better). The council forbade the jedi from going but Revan and his best friend malak went anyways taking many jedi with them and he took an army that was getting massacred and singlehandedly won the war fighting on the frontlines where he slaughtered them by the hundreds, he then discovered information on the star forge an ancient artifact of darkside power, he then traveled to numerous sith planets soaking up all the knowledge they had to offer him as well as lightside teachings from the jedi archives. He learned planets worth of powers from some of the greatest sith ever powers that were amazingly powerful powers that simply couldn't be learned elsewhere. He anhilated the mandalorians with ease(the mandalorians being the most powerful non-force users.) as well as the echani who had the ability to even predict entire wars before they happened.from there they turned on the republic destroying it easily thanks to the power of the star forge a weapons factory capable of making almost anything with minimal ressources, Revan used the force to harness a sun to his will much like earlier sith lords ability to manipulate stars. Revan killed or converted countless jedi numbering probably somewhere in the thousands and killed many republic solidiers.
-His apprentice turned on him when a jedi strike team tried to capture him, he survived but his mind was erased and reproggrammed to serve the republic. He then proceeded to, kill a ship worth of sith, anhilate two entire swoop gangs full of tough fighters, an entire sith military base and the exchange (the galaxys best organized crime organization full of bodyguards.) all this without the force and easily.
-He then was trained by the jedi again and with basically no training he defeated a full fledged dark jedi knight, mandalorians, and animals twisted by the darkside.
- Revan and his friends discovered star maps leading to the star forge and set out on a quest to find it he traveled to four planets to find it.
-Korriban homeworld of the sith. Revan raided two tombs worth of skilled assasin droids, tentarak (beasts twisted by the darkside that could easily kill a powerful jedi master) Revan killed three, two of them by himself at the same time without braking a sweat as well as an entire academy full of sith the galaxy's best bounty hunter and a tomb full of creatures twisted by the darkside.
Revan also collected darkside artifacts that increased his power.
-Tatooine. Revan killed sith knights sent to kill him, and a camp of tusken raiders maybe more, remember all this is easily and without any training.
-kayshkk homeworld of the wookies. Revan killed an extrordinarily powerful sith lord apprentice to the most powerful sith in the galaxy who was a master with the force who killed three sith solidiers in a heartbeat as well as the deadly predators of the shadowlands including yet another tentarak, he then wiped out a camp full of wookies.
- Revan was then captured by the dark lord malak the most powerful sith in the galaxy who killed two jedi knights in about 5 seconds while laughing and taunting revan. Revan killed the ship full of sith includinf numerous commando and special forces units and tons of sith knights/force users. He then fought malak forcing him to run away and try to escape, he then made a daring escape killing a fleet full of sith starfighters.
-Manaan, he destroyed a sith embassy full of assasin droids powerful sith masters and commando's, he then fought through a underwater station full of insane selkath.
-Revan followed the star map to the star forge but was forced to land on an uncharted world where he anhilated an entire race of rakatan including many rancor monsters (like a full grown one he faced on taris) he could literally kill 8 creatures at a time with his force lightning. he then raided a sith temple killing many many powerful force users and killer droids.
-The star forge. he fought through hundreds of assain droids, sith knights and force users as well as turrets and the full fury of the star forge. he then fought and killed malak up to nine times.
-After this he regained all his powers, just to give you an idea his master kreia killed the three most powerful jedi in the galaxy with a single lift of her hand and Revan surpassed her in every respect by far. Not only that but Revan has battle pre-cog to the point where he can not only predict entire wars before they happen but know his enemies every movement before they even think of them, that was the extent the greatest echani had it at and he not only surpassed them by far but slaughtered them by th thousands. With all this power he then went to singlehandedly fight the sith empire.
-All that being said he had such a great knowledge of force users and how to kill them that he programmed an assasin droid with tens of thousands of ways of killing them.
-As for sith magic, Revan controlled a sun to make his army... and he could kill with a lift of his hand... that has to count for something.
[QUOTE=4408691]Originally posted by Tangible God
(With JanusEdit)
What's so great about Revan? What powers did he possess that are so great. (You must be a fool)
He was just a hotheaded jedi who accidently was corrupted by some unknown Dark Side power. (He wasn't corrupted. He never actually fell. He simply began to manipulate both sides of the Force, as did his mentor and confidant, Kreia)
He rebelled against the Jedi by entering the ruins of the Star Forge Map and eventually found the Star Forge. (Point?)
It was Revan's tactics that won the Mandalorian Wars, not his force potential, it was the Star Forges capabilities that terrorized the Republic, not Revans'. (Are you so certain? Revan's tactics spring from hsi Force aided battle precognition on some level. Also, Revan's ships in the war itself were predominately Republic, and it wasn't until he and the fleet left known space and came back were there Star Forge ships.)
Sure he was a brilliant tactician, but he didn't use the force to coordinate his men and ships, like Palpatine. (Palpatine didn't do that either.)
Bastilia, a padawan, proved that. (How? When? Bastila and her cronies were allowed onboard because Revan was intent on capturing her. Revan knew of her abilities and her own hotheaded nature. He knew he could turn her.)
He would have been killed by the Jedi if Malak hadn't turned on him. (COMPLETE BS. Revan has killed the leaders of the Mandalorians and the Echani, as well as being superior to Malak, who can dispatch jedi as easily as I type this. You are mistaken.)
Also, neither Malak nor Revan were Sith. True Sith like Ragnos, Sadow, Kressh, Nadd,(kinda) Exar, and to some extent, the followers of Darth Banes code, Palpatine, Plagueis, perhaps Maul and Vader, yet not Dooku who was just a pawn in Palpatines gambit, and the other 20 or so generations of this strand, were all taught and learned in the teachings of Sith Magic and Sith History. (You're an idiot. True Sith died out in Sadow's time, during the Great Hyperspace Wars. Revan, Malak, Bandon, Kreia, Nihilus, and Sleeps-With-Vibroblades are Sith. They all had knowledge and teachings of the Sith. Arguably more than those who came after.)
REVAN and MALAK were just Dark Jedi (albeit powerful ones) who only took the name Dark Lord of the Sith because of Exar Kun's title, whom had reigned not forty years earlier, so they knew of it. (Huh? Say what? You're a fool?)
Also, CHRONOLOGICALLY, the time of Darth Revan and Darth Malak were 4000 years before the Empire. Darth Bane was 1000 years before the Empire. The term Darth was only started after Bane was the only Sith left and created his own code, which included the apprentice killing the master to become Dark Lord. (It's official EU. You don't like it, too bad. Lucasarts, who gave the okay for everything else you cited and KOTOR< says they are Darth. It's official.)
So when Bastilia stated that code on the Star Forge, she was 3000 years early. Darth was Bane's first name, Bane was coincidentally his last name, so another tradition was to create a name that sounded menacing, Plagueis, Maul, Sidious, Tyrannous, Vader. In conclusion, Revan AND Malak were ultimately inferior to the ancient Sith Race and to later generation of Sith who were actually taught in the ways of Sith Magic. (Again, wrong.)
Well, I hope that wraps that load of bullshit up, kiddies.
Originally posted by Darth_Janus
[QUOTE=4408691]Originally posted by Tangible God
Sure he was a brilliant tactician, but he didn't use the force to coordinate his men and ships, like Palpatine. (Palpatine didn't do that either.)
Palpatine did use battle meditation and Revan I think did, but not as well as Bastila. That is why he let her on his ship.
Originally posted by Darth_JanusEmperor, I make all my judgments on the knowledge I have present, not time or anything so ridiculous as that. Look at the reputations, accomplishments, and situations of these earlier Sith lords, and compare them to Revan, who is, for all intents and purposes, just a rising star in the galactic backdrop of Sithdom. Later on, perhaps, he might outclass many. But for now, he is perhaps just below Kun.
Fair enough. I apologize if I seemed rude. It merely seems like you often rate whoever came earlier at a higher rank.
Just because of what I have to work with. To be fair, note that I never include Ajunta Pall as one of the best. He was among the first of the dark side followers to go Sith, but he was hardly a true Sith master or anything. And I believe Ragnos' predecessor was weaker than him, or way stronger. I forget. But yeah. No offense taken, dude.