Hercules vs. Wonder Woman

Wonder woman is one the baddest female super heroes ever, she will kick mortal hercules a$$ bad it wouldn't be no contest, but immortal hercules who has fought classic thor to a standstill will stright whip her amazon a$$. Immortal hercules his the strongest of all demigods and most gods, his body doesn't tired he can fight for months where wonderwoman will get tired. There is a big difference in gods giving you god-like abilities where you are a son of one of the most powerful skyfather next to odin. Plus hercules mace rivals that of thor hammer in hitting power made from a unbreakable metal like the uru metal. Hercules is fighter, wrestler, and brawler and older than wonderwoman. It will be a great fight but the edge to hercules.

Mortal Hercules<<<< Wonder Woman
Immortal Hercules>>>>>> Wonder Woman

"lol!! you crack me up. AND you sound desperate and bitter. urm, and why do you keep bringing up hulk?

Because the Hulk has the same feats situation. It seems you dont even like to answer the question i gave you. Why?

Leo, no. The desperate and bitter part was for you. Read it again.

"dodging? sure it has to do with what is being discussed - you're positive you were right then, and you're positive you are right here. why the problem seeing the connection? lol. again."

And i was right.

Or are you denying now that he wasent at the heart of the sun when it is stated. You only use statements to provide proof when its convenient? What was in doubt was the how he did it. Something that i admit i wasent sure considering the translation of the issue i have.

You seem to have everything correct so far. Uranos being the universe, Chaos not being. Totally.

"has hercules been shown holding the heavens in a comic in the present tense? ie - has a comic book been written where hercules ACTUALLY holds the heavens? not where he 'recalls' doing it, or 'brags' about doing it, but actually DOES it? hmm . . .?"

Blindness alert. Lets try again.

http://img392.imageshack.us/img392/6867/atlastitan19bj.jpg

He is talking to someone. And he is telling what he did. We see on panel the feat. Marvel likes the earth deed more. Or Heavens if another writter uses it. Doesnt make a difference since they are both in the same range. Physical manifestations of cosmic beings.

Then we know they are in cannon because:

http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/2756/herculmythlabours4kv.jpg
http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/2756/herculmythlabours4kv.jpg

None of the labours are written diferently or with changes. The mini wrote his past feats, like everyone knows them. So again, not that it makes a difference either it happened the heavens or him helding the earth. He is shown doing exactly the kind of feats the ancients wrote about.

http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/662/hercules20av.jpg

Marvel so far showed -on panel- the earth one. So thats the one we use. Could be the other.

And because thats not the only planetary level feat he has, i give you present day Herakles :

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/7170/planetpressure6vr.jpg

Yes its not like he never had impossible like feats such as passing thro a cosmic storm.

http://img334.imageshack.us/img334/5404/picture10506cm.jpg

And having certain statements by the ones who should know better, like Wonder Woman and this gent here :

http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/1596/ww587xp.jpg

Maybe he doesnt know what he did as well. 😉

Must be amnesia. It can happen to millenia oldsters.

So far you have been most amusing. But didnt provide anything to counter what im showing. Why is that.

"can you name one other feat that is considered canon but that has NOT been shown actually HAPPENING (present tense) in a comic book? just one. or, if you'd rather, can you name one other feat that is considered canon based on the fact that a character 'remembers' it, even though the feat never actually happened in a comic book? hmm"

Easy there fella. Look above. And careful with those present and past tenses in the same line.

Darkstone, while i agree with all you said theres one part that needs some clarification:

"Wonder woman is one the baddest female super heroes ever, she will kick mortal hercules a$$ bad it wouldn't be no contest"

The one who fought the Hulk? Yes she will. Easy and handly at that. The one before the recent mini? In the crossover they seemed matched. Strenghwise at least.

The scans provided are in the Hercules thread.

Edit:

" Then we know they are in cannon because: "

http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/2756/herculmythlabours4kv.jpg

http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/9900/herculmythlabours12rp.jpg

This is the first time I've seen leo get heated in an argument.
Very nice...

Writing a book?

oly, do you think Herc could lift the weight of the Earth again, if he had to?
Not being a dick here, I'd like to know.

He never trully failed to lift anything he encountered. In the myths, he separated two continents aside doing the feat(s) in discussion.

As ridiculous the feats are, they belong to his nich. Hes worldwide known as a character for it. This is not a science fiction hero we have here, its a myth/fantasy one. Things like this are to be expected.

I accept it the same way i accept Thor lifting all or what he can of the Midgard Serpent and moving the World Engine. The same way i accept Hulk and Superman doing crazy science based feats.

If the story asked him to do the same. Yes he can. But not depowered. He needs his full strenght.

Hey Long.

If you manage to get the fight from avengers # 12. Let me know eh.

I gotta find that one.

By the way. What he did before was helding the weight on his shoulders. Not doing military bench press 😉

<<1. has hercules been shown holding the heavens in a comic in the present tense? ie - has a comic book been written where hercules ACTUALLY holds the heavens? not where he 'recalls' doing it, or 'brags' about doing it, but actually DOES it? hmm . . .?>>

blah blah blah - NO. (nice 'real life' pic. that will help your cause. course can't be worse then scans that DON'T show herc holding the heavens or even naming all 12 labors . . .)

<<2. can you name one other feat that is considered canon but that has NOT been shown actually HAPPENING (present tense) in a comic book? just one. or, if you'd rather, can you name one other feat that is considered canon based on the fact that a character 'remembers' it, even though the feat never actually happened in a comic book? hmm?>>

(apparently you suffered some reading comprehension problem here - reread the part that says CAN YOU NAME ONE OTHER FEAT . . . - ie - one BESIDES your alleged 'proof' about herc . . .)

but i'll summarize - blah blah blah - NO.

you don't get it, huh? your argument is akin to this situation:

a cop finds a man standing over a dead, stabbed body. he's holding a knife, the woman's wallet and is covered in blood. the cop says - hey, did you kill that woman? the man says, no, i remember fighting off the 12 guys that stabbed her though. i remember taking her wallet to see who she was and i remember taking the knife to make sure the 12 guys didn't come back. then, of course, the cop says, oh, well, since that's what you remember, you're free to go.

your argument remains unsupported by a present day feat - ie - you cannot point to an issue where hercules performs said feat (not talks about it, boasts about it, DOES it). you keep saying - 'you haven't proven anything'. still one more point you're wrong on. you alleged he HAS done it. the burden of showing evidence lies on you to prove it. one can't prove a negative.

off topic, but since you insist: thor was shown SAYING he was in a sphere within the heart of the sun. before you got all bent, even YOU acknowledged the fact, as did other posters. pretty pathetic to renege now. and you were utterly wrong about scales of infinity as well. now you're wrong about assuming i need to show proof. your claim, you show proof. you've shown none and all your little scans show is nothing.

lastly:

<<He is talking to someone. And he is telling what he did. We see on panel the feat.>>

a direct quote of nonsense from your post. course, this implies then that THIS scan is also 'canon'. why? because he's 'talking to someone'. he is 'telling what he did'. we 'see the feat on panel'.

damn, i hope you never end up on jury duty . . .

<<Well that wasent helding Manhattan either.>>

if i translate that to 'that wasn't manhattan he was holding either', then i guess this makes the fourth time you were wrong. or fifth? i keep losing count . . . 😉

oh, and last thing - show where i said uranos in a post PRIOR (ie BEFORE) you mentioned uranos. i still have no idea why you're going on about uranos . . . 😕

oh, and for GOD'S sake, read hesiod's theogony (the cosmogony) for a definition of what chaos is, before you make anymore ignorant statements about what i do and don't know. it will also tell you what atlas really had to bear on his shoulders. hesiod's is the work that all others have been based on, or have stolen from.

"blah blah blah - NO. (nice 'real life' pic. that will help your cause. course can't be worse then scans that DON'T show herc holding the heavens or even naming all 12 labors . . .)"

http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/2105/picture11072bl.jpg
http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/910/picture10765lv.jpg
http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/8461/picture10755dy.jpg
http://img389.imageshack.us/img389/227/picture10667uy.jpg
http://img389.imageshack.us/img389/3055/picture10672nn.jpg
http://img365.imageshack.us/img365/3118/picture10818fg.jpg
http://img365.imageshack.us/img365/2131/picture10809jk.jpg
http://img382.imageshack.us/img382/4387/picture10961in.jpg
http://img373.imageshack.us/img373/5456/picture10922sv.jpg
http://img373.imageshack.us/img373/9995/picture10874vv.jpg
http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/9704/picture11057vn.jpg
http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/9863/picture11045bw.jpg
http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/7309/herculbirth7vc.jpg
http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/9317/herculbirth14yf.jpg
http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/1622/picture10245yu.jpg
http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/1149/picture10315ca.jpg
http://img362.imageshack.us/img362/7853/hercbags6sy.jpg
http://img392.imageshack.us/img392/6867/atlastitan19bj.jpg

Oh yes! His myth feats and labours wer never showed, named and stated. Ever.

"(apparently you suffered some reading comprehension problem here - reread the part that says CAN YOU NAME ONE OTHER FEAT . . . - ie - one BESIDES your alleged 'proof' about herc . . .)"

See all scans so far and you will get your asnwer.

"your argument remains unsupported by a present day feat - ie - you cannot point to an issue where hercules performs said feat (not talks about it, boasts about it, DOES it). you keep saying - 'you haven't proven anything'. still one more point you're wrong on. you alleged he HAS done it. the burden of showing evidence lies on you to prove it. one can't prove a negative. "

You still havent asnwer my question. My burden its well delivered. I showed where past feats are represented in flasbacks. Stated. On panel. Without no one contradicting it.

"off topic, but since you insist: thor was shown SAYING he was in a sphere within the heart of the sun. before you got all bent, even YOU acknowledged the fact, ."

Why do you say what i already said? Was he or not in the heart of the sun. Its the how that was discussed. Moving along.

"a direct quote of nonsense from your post. course, this implies then that THIS scan is also 'canon'. why? because he's 'talking to someone'. he is 'telling what he did'. we 'see the feat on panel'.

Your almost there now. Thankfully.

That feat - would- be cannon if it wasent for one thing. He contradicts what he said before by chancing the view of the story.

Quotes and situations are cannon if no one disregards it after. In the case of his myths it didnt happened. Or you accept it or you dont. Its still cannon.

"damn, i hope you never end up on jury duty . . ."

Like you as a judge? oh my.

You dont accept it. Good, now move on.

"oh, and last thing - show where i said uranos in a post PRIOR (ie BEFORE) you mentioned uranos. i still have no idea why you're going on about uranos . . ."

Check your first posts.

"oh, and for GOD'S sake, read hesiod's theogony (the cosmogony) for a definition of what chaos is, before you make anymore ignorant statements about what i do and don't know. it will also tell you what atlas really had to bear on his shoulders. hesiod's is the work that all others have been based on, or have stolen from"

I read all of them. Each one has a slight different approach. The one used more often was that Chaos was "the void", the entity that gave birth to Gaea and Eros. And in some accounts to Uranos as well. Even there are more texts supporting the fact he was Gaeas son and mate.

And i already said what Atlas had to bear also changes of classification according to wich base it comes from.

Now rest a bit. cool2

<<I showed where past feats are represented in flasbacks.>>

bully for you. what about question #2 . . .? any OTHER canon feats that have never been shown happening and are canon based only on the memory of the character?

<<That feat - would- be cannon if it wasent for one thing. He contradicts what he said before by chancing the view of the story.>>

now it WOULD be, but . . . lol! you're supposed canon feat WOULD be canon IF it ever actually took place in a comic book.

<<Quotes and situations are cannon if no one disregards it>>

and if they happen in a comic. did this feat happen in a comic? it's such a simple question, really. the answer is no. so how can it be canon if IT HAS NEVER BEEN SHOWN TO HAPPEN?

i ask AGAIN - name one OTHER canon feat that is canon but that has never actually happened in a comic. if it hasn't HAPPENED in a comic, it cannot be canon.

<<Check your first posts.>>

you claimed i said uranos, the burden of proof lies with you. YOU check the posts.

"now it WOULD be, but . . . lol! you're supposed canon feat WOULD be canon IF it ever actually took place in a comic book. "

The difference you dont get its simple. If a feat or situation its showed and remains without being contradicted. Its cannon.

If theres one that is showed but its later contradicted/retconned. Its not.

Did you saw any of his labours being contradicted? No.

Did you saw the particular feat in discussion being contradicted? No.

Did it happened in the comic, on panel? Why yes. Its the basis.

"and if they happen in a comic. did this feat happen in a comic?"

Yes Leo my chap. It happened. What more can i say, than " Look closer ".

"i ask AGAIN - name one OTHER canon feat that is canon but that has never actually happened in a comic. if it hasn't HAPPENED in a comic, it cannot be canon."

Problem is, it happened in a comic. Want an example?

http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/5984/picture11096ws.jpg

Now go back and check the scans i posted min ago. This story deals with his labours becoming publicy known. Including things like killing his familiy. Nothing was contradicted.

Rest now Leo. Your getting tired. And boring.

<<did this feat happen in a comic?"
Yes Leo my chap. It happened. What more can i say, than " Look closer>>

really? it showed hercule doing the feat in present day? then i guess you're right . . .

but you're right about this getting tedious. i asked you 2 questions. you could not answer either of them save for resorting to the same old tired scans and teh same old - he remembered them. nor could you name one OTHER feat that is canon based solely on the memory of a character. (nice scan though of your proof - again, it doesn't show herc holding the heavens - why do you think that is? it's because it's a grey area, that has never been definitively answered or dealt with by marvel.)of course you couldn't, they CAN'T be answered.

you've shown and said nothing new since your first post. whena ltd series about teh labors comes out and he holds the heavens, i'll be happy to say you're right. until then, his holding the heavens is a grey area in marvel history and not canon. (maybe you problem is really that simple - i am not disputing the labors - i am disputing the feat of holding the heavens - something you have failed repeatedly to show he has done)

"really? it showed hercule doing the feat in present day? then i guess you're right . . ."

No it showed Hercules doing the feat centuries ago. Wich is when it happened. Its cannon because we see it and its not contradicted.

"but you're right about this getting tedious. i asked you 2 questions. you could not answer either of them save for resorting to the same old tired scans and teh same old - he remembered them"

Talking about going back again in the same old thing. Those are past feats. How else would we/the readers know what he did, if no one tells or remember it.

www.comicboards.com/gsmb/view.php?trd=050604090824&q=Hercules

You wanted something more like this? That would be if Hercules would had a comic now. He doesnt. Even still those events arent present wise. They are past. Always will be.

"you've shown and said nothing new since your first post"

Thats because it was clear since then.

"i am not disputing the labors "

Ah now you arent. Some progress has been made.

"i am disputing the feat of holding the heavens - something you have failed repeatedly to show he has done"

And i already showed that Marvel so far its more akin to him helding the weight of the earth. Thats why they state it. They showed it. If a new lt series comes out and show him doing the heavens feats its the same thing.

What it seems here its that you grab the idea that in that feat he did - nothing- .

About your Uranos quote: "and it was the firment, ie HEAVENS/UNIVERSE --"

The impression one takes from this is that Uranos is the universe.

There nothing more to argue. You said what you think, and i showed where my basis come from - in the comics -

<<Talking about going back again in the same old thing. Those are past feats. How else would we/the readers know what he did, if no one tells or remember it. >>

same way galactus's birth was shown happening present day in a comic book - marvel saga. same way ANY old feat is shown.

<<Ah now you arent. Some progress has been made.>> hardly. the feat in question has always been holding the heavens. nice non-marvel scan, btw. you show support with non-marvel comics and real life pics and memories. be good if marvel writes a comic where he holds the heavens though . . .

<<The impression one takes from this is that Uranos is the universe.>>

unbelieveable. all that because you had yet one more inaccurate 'impression'.

you're right. nothing left to dispute. when the feat happens in a comic, i'll say it happened. til then it remains what it has ALWAYS been, a grey area that no marvel writer really wants to touch.

"same way galactus's birth was shown happening present day in a comic book - marvel saga. same way ANY old feat is shown"

Exactly Leonidas. What is your beef then. Isent Galactus birth cannon?

Or are you going to dispute it, because it was narrated by a Watcher (and later Odin) and didnt happened in our present time.

"unbelieveable. all that because you had yet one more inaccurate 'impression'"

The inncurate impression was given from you. Uranos its not the universe, is it. Nor did Hercules held the universe.

Of course if he really had done that, who would i be to complain.

"you're right. nothing left to dispute. when the feat happens in a comic, i'll say it happened. til then it remains what it has ALWAYS been, a grey area that no marvel writer really wants to touch."

So the -ones who did-, have no credibility? I respect your pov but i disagree in every way.

Until a writter (and Marvel to the extent) states that -no-, that Marvel Herakles -never- held the Earth or the Heavens, they are cannon.

Especially when its written that the labours took place and the feats.

But alright. Moving on.

<<The inncurate impression was given from you. Uranos its not the universe, is it. Nor did Hercules held the universe.>.

given by me, eh. did i say uranos? did i ever up til then, say uranos. i KNOW uranos is not the universe, i never said he was the universe and i never mentioned his name. but it's MY fault you had that immpression? amazing . . . ❌

<<So the -ones who did-, have no credibility? I respect your pov but i disagree in every way.>>

no one HAS shown it, that's the problem. and galactus's origin IS canon because it was SHOWN to be actually TAKING place in a book. seriously, if you can't see the difference, there is nothing more i can say. if you're actually willing to compare the irrefutability of g's origin with hercules's feat of holding the heavens/universe (and any source saying it was earth is wholly incorrect - it was the sky/firmament/heavens - he was STANDING on the earth which is another reason it will never be shown definitively happening because that would ruin marvel's internal cosmology) and can't see the difference in the way they were presented and have since been treated, again, there's nothing for it. galactus's origin was DEFINITIVELY shown. when someone writes a book about hercules history, i'll say yeah, he did it. til then, hercules holding the heavens has never been DEFINITIVELY shown. (one tiny scan in one book showing a memory of him doing it is no where NEAR enough to prove it definitively.)

you say it has, i say no. i truly wish i could ask an authoritative source to end this, but i'm satisfied with my side.

"given by me, eh. did i say uranos? did i ever up til then, say uranos. i KNOW uranos is not the universe, i never said he was the universe and i never mentioned his name. but it's MY fault you had that immpression? amazing "

Since it was you who wrote: Heavens/Universe, yeah? It was a wrong impression tho, no reason dweling on it.

"no one HAS shown it, that's the problem. and galactus's origin IS canon because it was SHOWN to be actually TAKING place in a book. seriously, if you can't see the difference, there is nothing more i can say"

Both took place in a comic.

"if you're actually willing to compare the irrefutability of g's origin"

Wich was told to us readers by others...

"with hercules's feat of holding the heavens/universe (and any source saying it was earth is wholly incorrect - it was the sky/firmament/heavens - he was STANDING on the earth which is another reason it will never be shown definitively happening because that would ruin marvel's internal cosmology"

Except they did showed. As ridiculous as it is.

Ands again you are preaching to the choir. Both versions exist since way back. You have examples of art showcasing that. The heavens feat its the most commonly accepted as cannon, since it appears in more sources.

There is no definite source, tho. Thats why a writter can chose between both. Marvel so far as inclined to the Earth one.

Either its ok with me. We have our own opinions, that is all.

Here is a little something to get this debate going again................