Originally posted by darthsith19
[B]1. Why do you think that his loss to Anakin was a definite gauge of his ability and thus he must suck in general? Do you totally disbelieve the idea that he was toying with Anakin, or was that not obvious?It seems to me that this site is obsessed with Dooku. Everyone treats him like a god. On other sites, starwars.com, theforce.net and such nearly no one believes Dooku to be stronger than Anakin. I have no idea why he would be toying with Anakin. If that is the reason he lost, well then, he lost fair and square. If he could have killed Anmakin but didn't then it's his own fault. Besides, wern't you listening to what Sidious said to Grievous? "I will soon have a new apprentice. One far younger and more powerful."
2. This is ridiculous and unfounded, and you are -overestimating- Plo Koon. There is next to nothing showing his lightsaber skills and how he would stack up against a lightsaber duelling master, and the fact that he was predominately a pilot should say at least something.From Wikipedia: He has unparalleled strength and stamina, and is considered to be one of the most powerful Jedi Masters ever to sit on the council.
Plo comes from a long line of Jedi and is an adept warrior. It is said that he was one of the rare Jedi that had the ability to master the seventh form of lightsaber combat, Vaapad. Plo deems this form too dangerous and opts not to continue this line of training. Instead, Plo becomes a practitioner of Form V. Also, Master Plo Koon possesses an extensive knowledge of the physical sciences. In particular, he uses his expert knowledge of physics along with the Force to alter the environment: the resourceful Jedi can create small whirlwinds as well as a dense fog over a limited area, freeze tiny rivers and lakes, and raise or lower the temperature of his surroundings enough to incapacitate an opponent [/B]
Wikipedia?
You mean W-I-K-I-P-E-D-I-A?
😆
Ok, well, let's see here....
Obi Wan is obviously better than Plo Koon and so is Anakin or they would not be the main characters.
Dooku schooled Obi Wan and chopped Anakins hand off.
Plo Koon has no experience or Lightsaber dueling tactics that even compare to Dooku.
People don't overestimate him. He was just a powerful Sith Lord! Any moron who watches the movies can tell from that.
Funny how Anakin dueled better than Dooku, but Dooku had several chances to kill Anakin during that fight.
Example: You have fear.... You have Anger.... But you don't use them!
After Dooku says this, he puts his saber up and has about three seconds of time to slice Anakin, but waits for Anakins lightsaber to hit his.
Dooku WASN'T EVEN using Form II during the fight. He didn't wanna kill nobody. He wanted the Council to take him in and Sentence him. He would have a persuasion plea and be back out within days to a week, where he would come back to continue leading the Separatists, but Palpatine had other plans. Like you said, he wanted a new apprentice.
Originally posted by Sorgo
Wikipedia?You mean W-I-K-I-P-E-D-I-A?
😆
Ok, well, let's see here....
Obi Wan is obviously better than Plo Koon and so is Anakin or they would not be the main characters.
Dooku schooled Obi Wan and chopped Anakins hand off.
Plo Koon has no experience or Lightsaber dueling tactics that even compare to Dooku.
People don't overestimate him. He was just a powerful Sith Lord! Any moron who watches the movies can tell from that.
Funny how Anakin dueled better than Dooku, but Dooku had several chances to kill Anakin during that fight.
Example: You have fear.... You have Anger.... But you don't use them!
After Dooku says this, he puts his saber up and has about three seconds of time to slice Anakin, but waits for Anakins lightsaber to hit his.
Dooku WASN'T EVEN using Form II during the fight. He didn't wanna kill nobody. He wanted the Council to take him in and Sentence him. He would have a persuasion plea and be back out within days to a week, where he would come back to continue leading the Separatists, but Palpatine had other plans. Like you said, he wanted a new apprentice.
1. I agree that Obi and Ani are both stronger than Koon, but being the main characters has little to do with their power.
2. Dooku schooled Obi and chopped Ani's hand off in AOTC, after they were both immensely tired from fighting droids, beasts and Geonosians.
3. Can you prove that Plo's skills don't even match Dooku's? Kindly, please.
4. I agree that he is a powerful Sith Lord. But he can't school everybody. And he's not stronger than Sidious.
5. Why would Dooku plea to the Council? And they'd NEVER release him if they captured him.
Yes, many of you say Plo isn't that great of a fighter. His appearance in the movies is not an accurate thing to judge. He does indeed and has been said to have very impressive skills with a lightsaber and it says that he is indeed a much more martial Jedi than most.
So, as far as experience goes, there's no reason to say that Dooku is significantly more experienced. (Plo's done a lot!).
One of you guys said Plo was mostly a pilot. NOOOO! Goodness, you don't know what you're talking about. The horned Jedi is mostly a pilot, goodness.
Anywho, truthfully I think it'd be pretty evenly matched. And, of course you already know that I'm a little biased as to who I want to win, so I'd have to say that I think Plo should win because I want him to.
Originally posted by darthsith19
1. I agree that Obi and Ani are both stronger than Koon, but being the main characters has little to do with their power.
2. Dooku schooled Obi and chopped Ani's hand off in AOTC, after they were both immensely tired from fighting droids, beasts and Geonosians.
3. Can you prove that Plo's skills don't even match Dooku's? Kindly, please.
4. I agree that he is a powerful Sith Lord. But he can't school everybody. And he's not stronger than Sidious.
5. Why would Dooku plea to the Council? And they'd NEVER release him if they captured him.
1.) Watch the fight vs Anakin and Obi-Wan in ROTS. Dooku toys with Obi-Wan and Anakin at once.
2.) He did kick their asses in ROTS too
3.) Dooku had 7 decades of Jedi training is said to be better than Mace (who is second in command of the order), than he received additional 13 years of Sith training which made him even more powerful. Plo is nothing (read it: N-O-T-H-I-N-G) compared to Dooku...
4.) Watch the ROTS fight again. He "schools" Anakin and Obi-Wan...hell...he force chokes Obi-Wan, kicks away Anakin at the same time and than throws Obi across the entire room. How much does he have to "own" them before you will accept it ?
5.) That was part of Sidious plan. Read the ROTS novel for more information.
Dooku had 7 decades of Jedi training is said to be better than Mace (who is second in command of the order), than he received additional 13 years of Sith training which made him even more powerful. Plo is nothing (read it: N-O-T-H-I-N-G) compared to Dooku...
Originally posted by darthsith19
1. Where did you hear he is said to be better than Mace? Cause if your refering to when he beat Mace in a duel, well, we really don't know what status Mace was then, he very well may have been a Knight or even a Padawan. Even from TPM to ROTS I'd say Mace got a good bit better (though we don't really know how strong he was in TPM)
If you don't have an idea what you are talking about please don't talk.
a) Read something about Mace where you like - you will always find the line that Dooku and Yoda both can beat him. So Dooku > Mace.
b) The last duel between Mace and Dooku happened in TPM times and Mace was on the council in that time for more than a decade.
c) Yes. Mace god better from TPM to ROTS. So did Dooku.
2. How do you know how good Plo is? We havn't really seen him do anything so how do you know he is nothing compared to Dooku?
Mace is second in command of the Jedi order for a reason. He was the youngest Jedi who ever joined the Council (age 28). He was a genious when it came to lightsaber combat (invented his own style in the age of 13). Yet...Dooku is better than Mace and Plo is nowhere near Mace Windu.
And what kind of argument do you have. If we don't know how good Plo is why you're even writing something here ? At least we can tell that he isn't as good as Mace who himself isn't as good as Dooku. Case closed.
Originally posted by Gen. Grievous
And as well Plo mastered Vaapad and has extensive knowledge of physical sciences, which enabled him to create whirlwinds and to raise or lower the temperature enough to incapacitate his opponents..
Mace is the only person that mastered Vaapad. Plo didn't even practice that style. As Janus said: Sora Bulq and Deepa Billaba are the only two other practioners (and none of them mastered Vaapad).
Vaapad relies on Mace Shatterpoint ability which is unique to Mace so nobody except him is able to use that style properly.
Originally posted by Nai Fohl
If you don't have an idea what you are talking about please don't talk.a) Read something about Mace where you like - you will always find the line that Dooku and Yoda both can beat him. So Dooku > Mace.
b) The last duel between Mace and Dooku happened in TPM times and Mace was on the council in that time for more than a decade.
c) Yes. Mace god better from TPM to ROTS. So did Dooku.
Mace is second in command of the Jedi order for a reason. He was the youngest Jedi who ever joined the Council (age 28). He was a genious when it came to lightsaber combat (invented his own style in the age of 13). Yet...Dooku is better than Mace and Plo is nowhere near Mace Windu.
And what kind of argument do you have. If we don't know how good Plo is why you're even writing something here ? At least we can tell that he isn't as good as Mace who himself isn't as good as Dooku. Case closed.
Mace was the youngest Jedi to ever join the Council? Wrong. Anakin was 23.
Where is it that you get the impression Plo is nowhere near as strong as Mace.
And lastly I never said Plo could beat Dooku, I meremly said he would put up a good fight.
Originally posted by darthsith19
Okay, for one thing the official site states that Mace and Yoda are on par. Yoda had a draw with Mace, but clearly had the upper hand (or Dooku would not have run away). If Mace is on par with Yoda then he, to, could beat Dooku.Mace was the youngest Jedi to ever join the Council? Wrong. Anakin was 23.
Where is it that you get the impression Plo is nowhere near as strong as Mace.
And lastly I never said Plo could beat Dooku, I meremly said he would put up a good fight.
Are you on crack? Honestly, are you?
Ok, just because Sidious can beat Yoda, and Dooku cannot, does not mean Dooku cannot rape Sidious in a fight.
If Yoda and Mace are on par, how come Dooku whooped Mace and apparently "Lost" to Yoda? Oh, i see. Could Yoda be better than Mace? I do think so.
Plo IS NOWHERE near as strong as Mace. Mace is "The Swordsman" of the Order. I'd like to see Plo stand up against Sidious in a Lightsaber duel.
Plo would provide no challenge for Dooku whatsoever. You underestimate Dooku.