Originally posted by Ushgarak
Yes, absolutely. As already said, if you had taken the time to read properly, that is the exact trained response to deal with a suspected suicide bomber who is ignoring challenges to stop.
Indeed hold him on the ground and pump lead into him, the fact he doesn't talk english really helps🙂
Originally posted by Ushgarak
There is no indication that he didn't speak English, and again, yes, that is the trained means of dealing with suicide bombers. Your continual accusations in this area should be accompanied by some attempt to learn about the situation before commenting.
OK as someone who knows people who work in SO19 and lives in London I don't think I need to know much🙂
I understand that a man in a heavy coat would worry people in most cities but in London in the summer its a common sight, due to the high number of people from Africa we get who find the weather still cold. I would like to see the reason they chased him in the first place that I don't know. However 5 armed Police officers, newish visitor to a country. paint your own picture.
Please don't make things personal by saying I need to know etc mate, just stick to your opinion and facts, it makes debating far more relaxed.
We have a shoot to kill policy, why, is obvious. Are our Police competant enough to implement it without mistakes, obviously not. They have a hard job, I am not knocking the Police. I am worried about needless death though.
OK as someone who knows people who work in SO19 and lives in London I don't think I need to know much
I understand that a man in a heavy coat would worry people in most cities but in London in the summer its a common sight, due to the high number of people from Africa we get who find the weather still cold. I would like to see the reason they chased him in the first place that I don't know. However 5 armed Police officers, newish visitor to a country. paint your own picture.
Please don't make things personal by saying I need to know etc mate, just stick to your opinion and facts, it makes debating far more relaxed.
We have a shoot to kill policy, why, is obvious. Are our Police competant enough to implement it without mistakes, obviously not. They have a hard job, I am not knocking the Police. I am worried about needless death though.
I agree with this. As a MET Copper I know what it's like to have your every action scrutinised (this doesn't make my opinion more valid, but I simply know what it's like). The shooter made a decision based on a very fast sequence of events and obviously thought the bloke had a bomb. If the bloke did have a bomb, the shooter would be a hero for saving everyone on the train, but his decision would have still been based on the same sequence of events. It's a fine line. It's a tragic event and the victim is a victim of terrorism as much as any other victim on 07/07 or 09/11.
Calling it sickening and calling one of the finest police forces in the world incompetent is foolish and in ill-taste.
This event quite rightly results in upset, but it needn't result in anger faced at the people who are trying to protect our fine city.
Originally posted by snoochyboochies
OK as someone who knows people who work in SO19 and lives in London I don't think I need to know muchI understand that a man in a heavy coat would worry people in most cities but in London in the summer its a common sight, due to the high number of people from Africa we get who find the weather still cold. I would like to see the reason they chased him in the first place that I don't know. However 5 armed Police officers, newish visitor to a country. paint your own picture.
Please don't make things personal by saying I need to know etc mate, just stick to your opinion and facts, it makes debating far more relaxed.We have a shoot to kill policy, why, is obvious. Are our Police competant enough to implement it without mistakes, obviously not. They have a hard job, I am not knocking the Police. I am worried about needless death though.
I agree with this. As a MET Copper I know what it's like to have your every action scrutinised (this doesn't make my opinion more valid, but I simply know what it's like). The shooter made a decision based on a very fast sequence of events and obviously thought the bloke had a bomb. If the bloke did have a bomb, the shooter would be a hero for saving everyone on the train, but his decision would have still been based on the same sequence of events. It's a fine line. It's a tragic event and the victim is a victim of terrorism as much as any other victim on 07/07 or 09/11.
Calling it sickening and calling one of the finest police forces in the world incompetent is foolish and in ill-taste.
This event quite rightly results in upset, but it needn't result in anger faced at the people who are trying to protect our fine city.
If you are a Met officer you will know that many SO19 come from the SAS, SBS, PARAs etc and have had to retrain themselves as not to shoot to kill. A shoot to kill policy is in effect for obvious reasons. They killed an innocent man, thats sad.
I think it is tragic, and if you read what I said it was that I understood that a shoot to kill policy was in effect, someone who was not a bomber was shot and killed. Eyewitness acounts say he was pushed and held on the ground then shot. A mistake was made so yes I worry about competance. I understand the Police have a hard job, I have met good ones and bad ones.
I would not want a society without Police, but, a mistake challenges competance, and its not the first time the met have shot someone by mistake is it? It won't be the last sadly. They are accountable and if a overeaction has been made, may well be held accountable.
Thanks for agreeing with my post, I agree with yours also, who called it sickening etc?
wwoooOOOO...everyone has a go when i give an opinion..."the police identified themselves"
the guy was brazilian...therfore its safe to assume he speaks portugese...what if his English was relatively poor...
the police were in plain clothes...
to him could could have looked like a group of dodgy looking guys following him
"all the 'sickening'-esque remarks are pathetic"
as for where this is coming from i have no idea....cause its certainly not from me
one last point...when did everyone suddenly start defending the authorities on KMC
i have no doubt that if it happened in the US...it would have been an evil shoot to kill policy devised by Bush and the servants of satan or some other such tripe
i know how difficult the polices job is especially in these kinds of situations...all the more important that they get it right
Originally posted by KidRock
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050723/ap_on_re_eu/britain_underground;_ylt=Ag52Q7KsvFU37jpQs5xNQV.s0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA2Z2szazkxBHNlYwN0bQ--Good job london police. You gunned down an innocent man. I found this part very interesting.
[B]police chased him into a subway car, pinned him to the ground and shot him in the head and torso.
[/B]
😠 when i heard it on the news that they had shot a 'suspected terriost' the first thing that went through my head is wouldnt they feel like Sh*t if hes innocent low and behold he was
No, all I'm saying is, he ran, so he got shot.
It really is that simple. It was terrible circumstances, but the police simply couldn't take that risk.
As far as they could tell, he was a terrorist, and needed to be killed. The reason they have a shoot-to-kill policy is because they cannot allow suspected terrorists an inch. If he was a terrorist, what if they simply shot him and downed him? He could have triggerred anything. Obviously he didn't but it's about assessing risks.
The police are in a high alert status. They warned him, and even though he may or may not have spoken english, he was lacking basic common sense. He made a misake just as much as the police did. It may sound like an awful thing to say about an innocent dead man, but he would be alive if he just put his arms up and didn't come across so blatantly as a terrorist.
We can harp on about authority and policies and what not, but the man should not have run, plain clothed police men or not. That again was down to common sense. If a bunch of guys in plain clothes pull a gun and start barking at you, in broad daylight, in front of the public, one would assume that they were not criminals - unless the man had something to hide, which I am not suggesting.
Also, as for running out of panic, that is not the case. In true life or death panic, the mind shuts down and you freeze. Panic rarely induces one to run from armed persons. Again, I personally think that was a lack of common sense.
Awful things to say they may be, but seriously, who in their right mind would let a bombing suspect run off? Tragic death, and I dunno if this is highly insensitive me or not, but maybe this will demonstrate the zero tolerance nature of the police and that total co-operation is necessary, regardless of whether you can speak our language or not.
Originally posted by jaden101
wwoooOOOO...everyone has a go when i give an opinion..."the police identified themselves"the guy was brazilian...therfore its safe to assume he speaks portugese...what if his English was relatively poor...
the police were in plain clothes...
to him could could have looked like a group of dodgy looking guys following him
"all the 'sickening'-esque remarks are pathetic"
as for where this is coming from i have no idea....cause its certainly not from me
one last point...when did everyone suddenly start defending the authorities on KMC
i have no doubt that if it happened in the US...it would have been an evil shoot to kill policy devised by Bush and the servants of satan or some other such tripe
i know how difficult the polices job is especially in these kinds of situations...all the more important that they get it right
Pretty much what I said except the last bit.
They did get it right, they did everything by the book, they made no mistake.
A man they thought to be a possible suicide terrorist ran when they told him to halt, they took the necessary actions to bring him down and make sure he wouldn't be able to detonate any bombs that he may have been carrying. They did what they should do in this situation, not take chances.
The only mistake that was made was by the brazzilian man who ran.
Originally posted by BackFire
They did get it right, they did everything by the book, they made no mistake.A man they thought to be a possible suicide terrorist ran when they told him to halt, they took the necessary actions to bring him down and make sure he wouldn't be able to detonate any bombs that he may have been carrying. They did what they should do in this situation, not take chances.
The only mistake that was made was by the brazzilian man who ran.
They were out of uniform and we don't know what was said, how correct they acted any enquiry will ascertain that is not for you or I.
If they identified themselves, they would have shown him some sort of card or other identification - in how many cases have terrorists gone up to somebody and politely asked them to stop, whilst showing them their 'Terrorist ID'?
I don't really think a squad of plain-clothes police officers walk about brandishing their weapons, nor, I imagine, are they 'dodgy-looking' - at least any more than anybody else you might meet on the underground. When all is taken into account, it was a regrettable mistake, but one the man brought upon himself.
Originally posted by Trickster
If they identified themselves, they would have shown him some sort of card or other identification - in how many cases have terrorists gone up to somebody and politely asked them to stop, whilst showing them their 'Terrorist ID'?I don't really think a squad of plain-clothes police officers walk about brandishing their weapons, nor, I imagine, are they 'dodgy-looking' - at least any more than anybody else you might meet on the underground. When all is taken into account, it was a regrettable mistake, but one the man brought upon himself.
We don't know that yet, the degree of mistake has yet to be ascertained. The Police may have done everything right. They may not. The enquiry which will follow will decide, as it will be privy to all the information and not just the supposition we have.
Originally posted by Trickster
Still, only an idiot runs from five policemen, armed or not, after what just happened. And if they didn't declare themselves, why would he run? If he had just seen their guns, well, that might be reasonable, but surely other people would have run too.
Supposition a, many scenarios are possible
Personally I think it's tragic that a life was wasted needlessly, having said this I don't think people can fault the police for trying to protect the majority of people, for someone to get shot by the police in London they had to be doing something that provoked this, it isn't like in America where it seems most of the officers are pretty trigger happy.
Basically he shouldn't of run, however you look at it that was exceptionally stupid thing to do at anytime but especially so in light of the current mood in London..from what I've heard he was fluent in English so he would have know they were police not terrorists so he had no reason to run from them..