Originally posted by demigawd
The difference is, Iceman has done this before, so there's precedent. To say, "Batman comes up with something" is too nebulous to have any value. You could say, "Batman has, in the past, built a molecular shielder overnight that prevents the scrambling of any molecules, so he could use that against Iceman", and that would be valid. To say, "He's BATMAN!" is not.
And Batman has done is before.
There is no difference.
Has he done it to Batman before? No.
Has Batman trumped individuals greater than Iceman before? Absolutely. Who said Batman had to be an "inventive genius?" He's a tactical genius. He's an analytical genius. The BEST detective in ALL of DC save Sherlock Holmes. Does he "make" kryptonite, for example? No. Will he purchase it? Yep. If there is a way (and there IS) he will find it. It's that simple.
24 hours with how many "years" of experience, a 200+ IQ, a hundreds of millions of dollars at his disposal?
Like I said, what is Iceman going to do save his very same routines? Nothing. He's not Storm, he's not Cyclops (leaders), he's not Dr. Doom/Captain America.
He's the same old drab Bobby Drake who was not aware of his own potential until Emma Frost gave him a peak at what he COULD do.
Blah blah blah Iceman can do this that and the other. He did not even really start taking off until the end of the Onslaught story arc when they revealed that he could detect another's presence by the drop in temperature.
And AGAIN, your dropping these extreme same examples of what Iceman could do is no different than saying what Batman could do.
Big difference is Batman routinely devises stratagems to defeat global/galaxy-wide threats.
Iceman does not.
Like I said, nobody has to like it and frankly not many do because it seems to be a convenient answer to nigh anything.
Regardless, any cursory review of JLA shows that is what he does on a regular basis. This isn't an extreme Wolverine showing when he'll defeat Shang Chi (now THAT is bullchit). He does it on the regular.
Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
What could batman conjure that would stop iceman in time for his deadliest attacks?Thats like flash, if batman screws, flash wins, instantly.
What did Batman have for Flash in Mark Waid's Tower of Babel story arc? I read it, I just forgot. Hell, I forgot everyone save the red kryptonite and Superman.
Do you all see why it is DIFFICULT to pinpoint EXACTLY what Batman would do? I don't have a 200 IQ. I don't have a HUGE chemistry background.
Batman does not have an elemental based ability. When one discusses Storm in a battle, what do they say? Wind, lightning. Hulk? Strength, healing factor. Superman? Speed, heat ray vision, "invulnerability," strength.
Batman?
HIS BRAIN first and foremost, his martial arts prowess second.
That's why I keep pointing that it is elemental based -- and everyone keeps harping on the FACT that it is elemental based like that's a strength. It isn't. Again, when Prometheus ran through the JLA he did something as simple as flashing Green Lantern with a neural disruptor. End of that story. Shot Martian Manhunter with a chemical that basically turned him into silly putty.
I keep saying this is Batman. How many fights has he lost WITH PREP? Name your hero. Superman? Who cares if it is Dark Knight; he faked his death the first time. Point being he KNEW Superman would fly in and bathe the area in x-rays. Guess what he had waiting for him? Missles to knock him around a bit. In Dark Knight Strikes Back? Had Green Arrow hit him with a kryptonite napalm arrow. Had Flash run around and place some sort of sticky explosives on him. The The Atom shrunk down and danced on his eardrum (shot his equilibrium to hell). THEN he beat Superman around with the kryptonite gauntlets.
Martian Manhunter is a cosmic level psi. Batman successfully HID from his scans. MM couldn't find him. Small feat, right? Please.
How do you know Batman wouldn't attack him psionically? Create a field that would neutralize any elemental-based attack? He'd study EVERYTHING that Iceman is capable of and counter it. THAT'S WHAT HE DOES.
Who does Batman beat without prep? Not one cosmic, and not a whole lot of the Black Panther/Captain America/Daredevil types.
With prep, he's damn near king. Don't think so?
Read more JLA. Someone tell me I'm lying -- if you can?
Anyone? TELL me that's not what Batman is known for.
And lastly, for those cracking the corny jokes about Batman defeating TOAA -- um duh, common sense. But even cosmics are not out of reach, or did you forget that even Black Panther had a strategy to take down Galactus?
I think that batman is beating flash with prep, but thats not what I'm insinuating.
200 I.Q is nice, but I'm sure many are close to that on this forum.
I'm saying if they BOTH have prep, then Batman should be weighted less then.
As for JLA, batman is written that way, half of those guys would punk him direct on, and I know you see that.
I'm not going by reputation however, I'm asking what would batman do best to win.
Thats kind of why i don't like these threads, noone's right or wrong here, its all a possibility.
Batman with prep is an extreme wild card. Him, Doom, Reed, etc can't be put into a prep figh because they can and have taken down guys far more powerful than themselves. Iceman typically fights like a complete retard... Though he still has quite the repertoire of cheap win possibilities, which Batman may or may not think to counter. If Batman's plan works, he wins. If not, Iceman wins. Simple as that.
Originally posted by Dizzle
Batman with prep is an extreme wild card. Him, Doom, Reed, etc can't be put into a prep figh because they can and have taken down guys far more powerful than themselves. Iceman typically fights like a complete retard... Though he still has quite the repertoire of cheap win possibilities, which Batman may or may not think to counter. If Batman's plan works, he wins. If not, Iceman wins. Simple as that.
Thats the problem.
Prep is a WRITING device in stories, and since writers aren't doctors or physicicans, they can't really make the stuff feasible, so saying he just wins is hard to do.
Thats why these threads arent fun, they should just keep it to people in his league.
Could someone please regale me with the scientific and engineering personal feats of Batman? Aside from technologies that could be explained by oh I dunno owning huge corporate empire with an equally gargantuan R & D department.
The assumption that Batman is an equal to or greater than (among others) the likes of Victor von Doom, Reed Richards, Forge, Henry Pym, Hank McCoy, Charles Xavier, Moira Mactaggert and Sinister in their respective fields is just perplexing.
Batman dies by the way.
you know all we need is illadelph and this thread will be like the Iceman vs Superman thread, with me, Demi and X all supporting Iceman.
I mean common Batman is smart ya, but how is gonna get ONE day and come up with a weapon....you guys do realize that if Bats gets prep so does Iceman and that means Xmen tech....thats some advanced tech