ragnos vs. reven

Originally posted by Darth_Frobo
They followed the exact same rules the only difference is that none of them had any sith blood in them get over it.

They were not exactly the same. Bane's Empire only had two Sith in it at a time. It focused on secrecy instead of being a galatic power.

Revan's Empire had two powerful guys, the Master and the apprentice, and then a lot of little weak guys below. ONLY the Apprentice would suceed that Master in this Empire.

In the true Sith Empire, there was the DLOS, twenty Sith Lords below that, and then a bunch of other guys. ANY of these Sith could become the DLOS if they killed the current DLOS.

Your fighting for a lost cause not work the effort.

Finally I can say that any and all Ragnos supporters who have bashed either myself or emp. Revan for making assumptions are HYPOCRITES in the truest sense of the word you attempt to pass your assumptions off as fact or better yet "deductions" then try to bash me when I show how easily undermined said assumptions are and they're just guesses. So really the truth is whether or not you want to admit it we've both made assumptions. If we go by absolute fact not by assumptions and "deductions"(which have been shown to be the same bloody thing) and opinions we'll get something along these lines:

Revan:

Singlehandedly won two wars destroying the mandalorians,republic and sith killing countless force users in the process.
Had high potential and learned all he could
had numerous artifacts bolsetering his power
WAS never defeated
killed mandalore in an honorable fight along with many other mandalorians
killed yussanis and many echani honorably
Ruled a sith empire that controlled the better part of the galaxy
Harnessed a sun to his will
Had powers greater then those of kreia who could kill three jedi masters with a wave of her hand.

Ragnos:

Ruled the sith empire for over a century when it was at it's peak
Had insanely powerful followers
was feared by said insanely powerful followers
Killed simus who was POSSIBLY the most powerful at the time.

Ultimatley I don't want to give people the idea that I hate ragnos because i don't in fact I want to write a fan-fic about him showing him to be insanely powerful in a use the force to snap someones neck sort of way but in the end all i really wanted to say is what i said on page two of this debate, We DO NOT know enough about ragnos in order to assume that he's more powerful then Revan even if you do beleive that's the case please don't tout it as fact as it isn't, it can't be proven and until it can be it shouldn't be acknowledged as fact merely as a probability.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
They were not exactly the same. Bane's Empire only had two Sith in it at a time. It focused on secrecy instead of being a galatic power.

Revan's Empire had two powerful guys, the Master and the apprentice, and then a lot of little weak guys below. ONLY the Apprentice would suceed that Master in this Empire.

In the true Sith Empire, there was the DLOS, twenty Sith Lords below that, and then a bunch of other guys. ANY of these Sith could become the DLOS if they killed the current DLOS.

Your fighting for a lost cause not work the effort.

In Revans empire the strongest would rule it just so happened that the strongest next to revan was his apprentice if the strongest wasn't his apprentice he could just as easily challenged revan for the throne. Revan got his teachings from korriban from the tombs Ragnos and others.

Bane's empire may not have had as many that could vie for position but the strongest still always ruled and it took much more skill to assume the throne at that time then it would in the past.

I don't really care about the cause all i care about is people trying to pass of probability as fact, I'm willing to admit ragnos could be more powerful. if the Ragnos fanboys will just admit that it's not a proven fact that Ragnos is stronger merely a probability and I'm willing to admit a good one at that then we can end it here.

i agree with darthrevan89
plus go to my forum tehehe

quote: (post)
"Originally posted by Illustrious
The Revan bashing barely cancels out the Revan ass-kissing. Sure there are plenty of threads made for the sole purpose of making Revan lose, but there are plenty of threads where there are fanboys making Revan out to be so much better than great Sith like Nadd, Sadow, Ragnos, or Kun.

Hell, there was a thread in the EU forum that asked if Revan was the strongest Sith ever and it had more Yes's than No's for a while.

I am a fanatical fan of Revan, but there is no way in hell that he is the most powerful Sith Lord."
to quote him

Someone shut this thread down already.

Originally posted by Darth_Frobo
Malak was weaker then revan but betrayed him for the throne
Sidious was weaker then plaguesis but did the same
Traya was weaker then nhilus (including his eating ability) yet ruled the three of them.

Malak was weaker then Revan and betrayed him.
Sidious was weaker than plagueis and murdered him.
Nihilus and Sion teamed up on Kreia and Kreia was only stronger than Sion.

Still. What's up with that reasoning ? In the Sith Empire after Bane there was only one Dark Lord and one apprentice (Sith Lord). In Ragnos times there was one Dark Lord and at least 20 Sith Lords. And none of them ever tried or at least not succeeded in take him.

Revan is repeatedly cited as a powerful warrior as a known fact he beat two tentarak at once when a single one pwns a jedi master so lets see here logic time

Revan>tenterak>jedi master
or
Revan pwns kreia pwns three most powerful masters at once.

Again you call that logic ? We know that Malak was not far inferior to Revan. Yet Malak was not able to kill Kavar when Kavar came to confront him although Kavar had a hard time to escape. Still the fact that he escaped out of a duel tells you that Malak is not far more powerful than him and Revan is not far more powerful compared to Malak. So in conclusion Kavar can't be far inferior to Revan.
Now we see the Exile (DS) defeating 3 Jedi Council members at once in direct combat while Kreia killed them with an (unknown) force attack. So...how powerful they really were ?

Let's see logic time again Revan learned everything he could from all his sources, malachor=one of his sources.

There is only one source for Revans dark side knowledge and that is Malachor V while his source for artifacts is Korriban. One planet filled with the knowledge of the ancient Sith Lords and another one filled with artifacts of the ancient Sith Lords. Now Revan did only plunder that stuff.

Yeah multiple artifacts:
Tulaks holocron
Tulaks headband
Ragnos's gauntlets
Palls sword
sadows sword

Oh great. Revan discovered artifacts including the gauntlets of Ragnos. Now that things make him more powerful but don't have an effect on their creators ?

before that there are multiple quotes saying that revan had sith search for and bring many artifacts to him.

Yes, but he couldn't use them all at once.

You have to be powerful enough to harness a star end of story as far as the star forge is concerned

So Tarkin has to be powerful enough to blow up stars to control the death star. The only proof you have to be powerful to control the star forge is that many (minor) force users failed to do it. That's like saying: Because a padawan can not do something, Yoda can also not do it.

And still your oppinion is that Revan (plundering the ancient Sith Lords artifacts and learning their knowledge) must be more powerful than the ancient Sith Lords themselves. I still don't get it.

Originally posted by Darth_Frobo
I don't really care about the cause all i care about is people trying to pass of probability as fact, I'm willing to admit ragnos could be more powerful. if the Ragnos fanboys will just admit that it's not a proven fact that Ragnos is stronger merely a probability and I'm willing to admit a good one at that then we can end it here.

Name one thing that I have made up. Lets, you can't.

I don't want to waste more time with this so it's quite simple what i'm offering

I admit that it's more then possible even probable that Ragnos could win
As long as you admit that it's not fact and it can't be proven so there's always a possibility he would lose.

PS this thread has gotten pretty vicious so all i want to say otherwise is no hard feelings dudes things may have gotten heated but i sure as hell don't want to turn this one stupid thing into a major conflict, may the force be with you all.

Everything Revan learned in Malacor V Ragnos learned in grade school.

All of the super-uber-amazing-awsome-godly-holy-allpowerful artifacts Revan found on Korriban Ragnos made in Boyscotts.

Face it, Revan is screwed.

not made up merely assumed

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Everything Revan learned in Malacor V Ragnos learned in grade school.

There's one thing you made up that you have no proof supporting

dude why are you continuing this just swallow your pride admit it's not an absolute fact ragnos would win.

PD read the above no hard feelings part.

Actually it's an inference. Ragnos, being an ancient Sith, probably had something to do with making something that was made by ancient Sth.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Everything Revan learned in Malacor V Ragnos learned in grade school.

All of the super-uber-amazing-awsome-godly-holy-allpowerful artifacts Revan found on Korriban Ragnos made in Boyscotts.

Face it, Revan is screwed.

Prove any of that...you can't you can merely assume and fact is he opnly found one artifact from ragnos.

How long are you guys going to argue the same points over and over again? Ragnos wins end of story.

I wasn't being serious in saying everything Revan found was made by Ragnos, but what Revan learned was Ancient Sith stuff so it makes sence for an Ancient Sith to know about it.

Glentract dude this is getting really ****ing annoying I've already admitted it's a strong possibility Revan might lose it's merely not a proven fact and the possibility he might win is also up there because if you examine this entire thread that's the only fair conclusion you can't come to anything else without being fanboyish for either side plain and simple.

Originally posted by darthrevan89
How long are you guys going to argue the same points over and over again? Ragnos wins end of story.

That's where you've got it wrong dude there's simply not enough proof to make a decision either way there's nothing you can say to give reasons why ragnos would win merely why revan wouldn't and vice versa

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
I wasn't being serious in saying everything Revan found was made by Ragnos, but what Revan learned was Ancient Sith stuff so it makes sence for an Ancient Sith to know about it.

Yes but ancient sith knowledge grew greater over time not lesser (up until sids that is) so some of the knowledge ragnos may have had just not all of it or maybe even most of it.