The Official BLEACH series Thread

Ichigo is also completely one dimensional, who is still compared to most a nub with his powers, and remember, people who are at least Noitora and above are on the level or above that of a Vasto Lord, who Toshihiro thinks could take over Soul Society if there were only ten of them.

He was never THE strongest Soul Society fighter, Yamamoto is above him, as are probably Ukitake and Kyoraku, Soifon is near his level judging by recent showings IMO, Kenpachi and Byakuya are around his level, with Byakuya being a little weaker, and Kenny going full out being a bit stronger(their fight was PIS in all honesty, Kenny is a rare breed, actually being the cause of the PIS that negatively affects him), judging by what just happened, Sajin can at least put up a fight, and not to mention, I like eggs.

Aizen is so strong he brought Grimmjow to his knees by releasing his spiritual power...And he effortlessly beat Toshihiro, and Sajin, both of whom released their Bankais, and he beat them in one move with his Shikai.

Yamamoto literally wields a fire sword that reaches the clouds...

Yeah, Ichigo is very powerful, but not top dog, not yet at least.

EDIT: Also, I think we are about to see Barragan fight. Coolio.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Also, the person that showed up could be one of the other humans, not necessarily ichigo.

Ichigo's dad?? 😱

it would make sense if it was either him, Yourochi, or Uruhara

i would like to see all of their bankais, or even just the shikai of the first two

i was thinking that maybe Uruhara was training Tatsuke and the two guys how to increase their power and become like Sado and Orihime, but there's no way they'd be that strong even if they were training

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Ichigo is also completely one dimensional, who is still compared to most a nub with his powers, and remember, people who are at least Noitora and above are on the level or above that of a Vasto Lord, who Toshihiro thinks could take over Soul Society if there were only ten of them.

The vast majority of all the characters are just as one dimensional. If you're talking about the powers of their swords, yes, they are all just as one dimensional. They each have their own abilities.

And, no, he's not one dimensional. He's more of a prodigy than Ukatake and Mr. Grins like a child molester.

I agree that he is new, but he is far from a nub. he has more reistsu control than just about everyone in soul society. He can also use Bankai. Ichigo is one of the most skilled fighters in all of Soul Society's history solely based on his discovering his Bankai. 😐

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
He was never THE strongest Soul Society fighter

I never said that. It also appears that you aren't saying that I said that.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
, Yamamoto is above him, as are probably Ukitake and Kyoraku,

I agree, I agree, and I agree....until he's in Vizard form. He THEN should be stronger than all three. SHOULD. If he's not, it is simply the furtherance of plot by powering him down.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Soifon is near his level judging by recent showings IMO,

He is leagues faster in his bankai form and has much more reitsu. Since the author has to further the plot, he had to slow Ichigo waaaaaaay the f**k down in his bankai form. In his Bankai form, he's supposed to absurdly fast.....because that's the point of the form. Come on...he stopped thousands of almost microscopic blades AND he stopped the execution thingie.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Kenpachi and Byakuya are around his level, with Byakuya being a little weaker, and Kenny going full out being a bit stronger(their fight was PIS in all honesty, Kenny is a rare breed, actually being the cause of the PIS that negatively affects him), judging by what just happened, Sajin can at least put up a fight, and not to mention, I like eggs.

I agree that Ichigo is stronger and faster than Byagugan (lol) a long time ago in the manga. Ichigo has since then, gotten a lot stronger and a lot faster.

No, the fight was NOT PIS. It was supposed to show the importance of being one with your zanpaktou. Ichigo won because he was able to focus the sharpness of his sword MORE so than Kenpachi because he knew his sword better. Ichigo is an even rarer breed, btw. As far sa we can see, no one like Ichigo has ever existed. In a year, he has become stronger than just about everyone in soul society and, technically, he SHOULD be stronger than everyone by leagues while in his Vizard form.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Aizen is so strong he brought Grimmjow to his knees by releasing his spiritual power...And he effortlessly beat Toshihiro, and Sajin, both of whom released their Bankais, and he beat them in one move with his Shikai.

Aizen's power is also PIS...but we wouldn't have an uber badass bad guy with that type of PIS.

Unless there's some other reason to explain his powers as research or some ancient soul society artifact, he's just PIS for the sake of story.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Yamamoto literally wields a fire sword that reaches the clouds...

Yeah, Ichigo is very powerful, but not top dog, not yet at least.

EDIT: Also, I think we are about to see Barragan fight. Coolio.

Indeed, Yamamoto is strong. Damn strong. Imagine him unlocking his Vizard form?

Yes, we may finally see who is #1.

Yamamoto a vizard??

i don't think so, that's against the rules, and you know how he feels about rules

oh, and the rule in mangas is usually like this

"good guy's power is greater than bad guy's power"

so if your wondering how strong Ichigo is, he's stronger than his current opponent

but here's how i think his fight with Ulquiorra will go;
Ichigo puts up a good fight and almost gets defeated
Nel shows up and Orihime repairs her mask permanently transforming her back into an adult
she kills Ulquiorra

Originally posted by stickman618
Yamamoto a vizard??

i don't think so, that's against the rules, and you know how he feels about rules

oh, and the rule in mangas is usually like this

"good guy's power is greater than bad guy's power"

so if your wondering how strong Ichigo is, he's stronger than his current opponent

but here's how i think his fight with Ulquiorra will go;
Ichigo puts up a good fight and almost gets defeated
Nel shows up and Orihime repairs her mask permanently transforming her back into an adult
she kills Ulquiorra

Believable, on all accounts. 👆

you're not being sarcastic too are you?

Originally posted by dadudemon
The vast majority of all the characters are just as one dimensional. If you're talking about the powers of their swords, yes, they are all just as one dimensional. They each have their own abilities.

And, no, he's not one dimensional. He's more of a prodigy than Ukatake and Mr. Grins like a child molester.

I agree that he is new, but he is far from a nub. he has more reistsu control than just about everyone in soul society. He can also use Bankai. Ichigo is one of the most skilled fighters in all of Soul Society's history solely based on his discovering his Bankai. 😐

I never said that. It also appears that you aren't saying that I said that.

I agree, I agree, and I agree....until he's in Vizard form. He THEN should be stronger than all three. SHOULD. If he's not, it is simply the furtherance of plot by powering him down.

He is leagues faster in his bankai form and has much more reitsu. Since the author has to further the plot, he had to slow Ichigo waaaaaaay the f**k down in his bankai form. In his Bankai form, he's supposed to absurdly fast.....because that's the point of the form. Come on...he stopped thousands of almost microscopic blades AND he stopped the execution thingie.

I agree that Ichigo is stronger and faster than Byagugan (lol) a long time ago in the manga. Ichigo has since then, gotten a lot stronger and a lot faster.

No, the fight was NOT PIS. It was supposed to show the importance of being one with your zanpaktou. Ichigo won because he was able to focus the sharpness of his sword MORE so than Kenpachi because he knew his sword better. Ichigo is an even rarer breed, btw. As far sa we can see, no one like Ichigo has ever existed. In a year, he has become stronger than just about everyone in soul society and, technically, he SHOULD be stronger than everyone by leagues while in his Vizard form.

Aizen's power is also PIS...but we wouldn't have an uber badass bad guy with that type of PIS.

Unless there's some other reason to explain his powers as research or some ancient soul society artifact, he's just PIS for the sake of story.

Indeed, Yamamoto is strong. Damn strong. Imagine him unlocking his Vizard form?

Yes, we may finally see who is #1.

2. Vizards form just gives you some Hollow attributes and Cero...It doesn't make you God. Look at Noitora, who is both a Vasto Lord and has Shinigami powers, when Kenny took him seriously, Kenny cut through him and all his blades. And for Ichigo it lasts like 9 seconds lol.

3. Agreed, but I was basing it on Shikai form, since we have yet to see her Bankai.

4. During the first half of the fight, while powered down, Kenny beat Ichigo's ass and nearly killed him. Then, he gets revived with a power amp, and cuts Kenny like a salami several times, inflicting grievous wounds, only then does Kenny take off his eyepatch, and then they clash, Kenny stabs Ichigo through the chest, knocking him out nearly instantly, and Ichigo just is able to cut his shoulder and part of his chest up. Kenny stands, then falls from blood loss. If Kenny was at full power at the start of when Ichigo got the amp, you don't think it would have ended differently? And then we learn, that simply by holding his Zanpakuto with two hands, his power skyrockets to over 9,000. And also, it is important to note that Kenny beat the 5th Espada rather handily when Kenny took the fight seriously, Ichigo had trouble with the 6th.

5. Agreed, his power is on par with Tsukiyomi(Naruto) in sheer cheapness.

Well, judging from his character, probably research coupled with his experience.

6. ...It would be funny looking. 😂

Yeah, well IMO Barragan has pretty much proven himself to be #1.

am i the only one who's wondering where the hell Yammy is??

characters don't just take off like that for no apparent reason ya know, he must be up to something

lol Yammy, I forgot about him.

Bring back Wonderwice! He was badass.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. No, I mean overall.

Does not follow. All of them can be called one dimensional on some level. The Kidou argument is the best, imo, to argue AGAINST some NOT being as one-dimensional as others.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
The only more one dimensional character is Kenpachi, and he makes up for it with freak spiritual power, strength, and adaptibility. Ichigo is little more than a skilled beserker, he can't do Kido, and his sword as you said lacks any real capabilities beyond slashing and a blade beam. Not all Zanpakuto are one dimensional, look at Urahara, who has both an attack and a shield, and Byakuya, whose Bankai takes different forms. He does not have great Reitsu control, that is a core aspect of his character. He cannot suppress it, making stealth impossible, he can't seal his Zanpakuto, it is always in Shikai, and he cannot use Kido.

Kenpachi is not as one dimensional as you think. Part of his "ability" is a psychological presence. He manipulates his opponents psychological state with his words AND abilities. The psychological aspect of these vs. fights are very important. They are not quintessential in deciding the outcome of the fight, but they played a part in just about every major fight.

Ichigo's zanpakutou is not one dimensional either. He can sharpen it to be absurdly sharp. He can concentrate reistsu with his zanpakutou and release it as very strong blade energy that can slice skyscrapers in half like they were butter.

As for Ichigo's sword's ability, his sword is constantly released because of his Massive chakra...I mean reistsu.

Another ability of Ichigo's is his unparalleled ability to learn and grow and a shinigami.

If or when Ichigo learns kidou, he will only show how much better he is than everyone else.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
2. Vizards form just gives you some Hollow attributes and Cero...

I don't remember anywhere in the manga that a Vizard used or said they could use Cero.

And, no, the Vizard form is supposed to make you stronger than a hollow or a shinigami. I don't remember where it was....maybe when Aizen was leaving or shortly thereafter, dialogue occurred that talked about the vizard form without naming it Vzard.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
It doesn't make you God. Look at Noitora, who is both a Vasto Lord and has Shinigami powers, when Kenny took him seriously, Kenny cut through him and all his blades. And for Ichigo it lasts like 9 seconds lol.

Ichigo had also depleted almost every last drop of his reistsu and had injuries to spare. Ichigo beat Kenpachi. Don't forget that.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
3. Agreed, but I was basing it on Shikai form, since we have yet to see her Bankai.

That's a good point. I wouldn't be so ignorant to claim that Ichigo's regular flash steps are as fast as hers. If her Bankai makes her much faster like Ichigo's.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
4. During the first half of the fight, while powered down, Kenny beat Ichigo's ass and nearly killed him.

Let's not forget that he wasn't trying very hard, either.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Then, he gets revived with a power amp, and cuts Kenny like a salami several times, inflicting grievous wounds, only then does Kenny take off his eyepatch, and then they clash, Kenny stabs Ichigo through the chest, knocking him out nearly instantly, and Ichigo just is able to cut his shoulder and part of his chest up.

You're also forgetting that Ichigo was only a real shinigami for, how long? You're also forgetting that Ichigo was more than a newb shinigami. He hadn't even been a Shinigami for, what?, 3 months? Despite that, he was at Lieutenant level after a mere three months?

That fight was to show Ichigo's progression with his reistsu control. The whole point of that fight was to show Ichigo coming into his own. Ichigo was so scared out of his mind that he couldn't properly control himself. Just as the flash back showed you, he remember his training and re-focused on how to do what he was supposed to. Come on, he was so scared, despite having at least lieutenant level reistsu, that he couldn't even wound Kenpachi. Ichigo is also a fast fighter. Even before Bankai, he was pretty damn quick.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Kenny stands, then falls from blood loss. If Kenny was at full power at the start of when Ichigo got the amp, you don't think it would have ended differently?

That's a major "duh". Kenpachi, however, was wanting to enjoy the fight since there was no one around to give him a thrill.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
And then we learn, that simply by holding his Zanpakuto with two hands, his power skyrockets to over 9,000.

hahahahahaha! that never gets old..

Anyway, holding it with two hands was not what did it. Ichigo was ultra focused. He also used up pretty much every drop of reistsu during that last strike.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
And also, it is important to note that Kenny beat the 5th Espada rather handily when Kenny took the fight seriously, Ichigo had trouble with the 6th.

The sixth(Grimmjow) was similar to Ichigo in that he gets faster in his release form. He was also covered in ridiculous armor. Ichigo was also wiped out from that fight and had barely recovered.

That small fight, imo, was more like PIS. I still think that Ichigo should WTF pwn every last espada in his Vizard form. Also, that fight was to redeem Kenpachi from his fight with Ichigo. It was supposed to show that Kenpachi is still absurdly powerful.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
5. Agreed, his power is on par with Tsukiyomi(Naruto) in sheer cheapness.

Well, judging from his character, probably research coupled with his experience.

6. ...It would be funny looking. 😂

Yeah, well IMO Barragan has pretty much proven himself to be #1.

I'm thinking that he isn't number 1, but one of the other is. It will be one of those "surprise" moments, I think. But everything points to him being number 1.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Does not follow. All of them can be called one dimensional on some level. The Kidou argument is the best, imo, to argue AGAINST some NOT being as one-dimensional as others.

Kenpachi is not as one dimensional as you think. Part of his "ability" is a psychological presence. He manipulates his opponents psychological state with his words AND abilities. The psychological aspect of these vs. fights are very important. They are not quintessential in deciding the outcome of the fight, but they played a part in just about every major fight.

Ichigo's zanpakutou is not one dimensional either. He can sharpen it to be absurdly sharp. He can concentrate reistsu with his zanpakutou and release it as very strong blade energy that can slice skyscrapers in half like they were butter.

As for Ichigo's sword's ability, his sword is constantly released because of his Massive chakra...I mean reistsu.

Another ability of Ichigo's is his unparalleled ability to learn and grow and a shinigami.

If or when Ichigo learns kidou, he will only show how much better he is than everyone else.

I don't remember anywhere in the manga that a Vizard used or said they could use Cero.

And, no, the Vizard form is supposed to make you stronger than a hollow or a shinigami. I don't remember where it was....maybe when Aizen was leaving or shortly thereafter, dialogue occurred that talked about the vizard form without naming it Vzard.

Ichigo had also depleted almost every last drop of his reistsu and had injuries to spare. Ichigo beat Kenpachi. Don't forget that.

That's a good point. I wouldn't be so ignorant to claim that Ichigo's regular flash steps are as fast as hers. If her Bankai makes her much faster like Ichigo's.

Let's not forget that he wasn't trying very hard, either.

You're also forgetting that Ichigo was only a real shinigami for, how long? You're also forgetting that Ichigo was more than a newb shinigami. He hadn't even been a Shinigami for, what?, 3 months? Despite that, he was at Lieutenant level after a mere three months?

That fight was to show Ichigo's progression with his reistsu control. The whole point of that fight was to show Ichigo coming into his own. Ichigo was so scared out of his mind that he couldn't properly control himself. Just as the flash back showed you, he remember his training and re-focused on how to do what he was supposed to. Come on, he was so scared, despite having at least lieutenant level reistsu, that he couldn't even wound Kenpachi. Ichigo is also a fast fighter. Even before Bankai, he was pretty damn quick.

That's a major "duh". Kenpachi, however, was wanting to enjoy the fight since there was no one around to give him a thrill.

hahahahahaha! that never gets old..

Anyway, holding it with two hands was not what did it. Ichigo was ultra focused. He also used up pretty much every drop of reistsu during that last strike.

The sixth(Grimmjow) was similar to Ichigo in that he gets faster in his release form. He was also covered in ridiculous armor. Ichigo was also wiped out from that fight and had barely recovered.

That small fight, imo, was more like PIS. I still think that Ichigo should WTF pwn every last espada in his Vizard form. Also, that fight was to redeem Kenpachi from his fight with Ichigo. It was supposed to show that Kenpachi is still absurdly powerful.

I'm thinking that he isn't number 1, but one of the other is. It will be one of those "surprise" moments, I think. But everything points to him being number 1.

2. ...That has only worked on Hanataro, Ichigo at first, and arguably Tosen. Against his stronger opponents like Noitora, the "psychological" aspect didn't occur.

3. ANY Shinigami can sharpen their Zanpakuto, that is one of the most basic abilities, hell, Kenny can too, cutting a building in half ftw. And his blade beam is his only X-Factor.

4. Yeah, which he cannot control. Aizen has the single most impressive Reitsu in the series, yet can seal his Zanpakuto. Yamamoto also has very powerful Reitsu, but can seal it.

5. Agreed, Ichigo's growth rate is nothing short of astounding. But growth rate does not matter as much in the fight.

6. I am pretty sure that Shinji was able to use Cero, and it would make sense. Sure, it makes you stronger than a Hollow or Shinigami, by combining both...Like an Espada. And no, when Aizen left, he remarked that he has mastered Shinigami powers to such an extent he simply could not get any stronger, so to get stronger he must aquire and master Hollow powers.

7. What? What does that have to do with anything? What I was saying is that a Vasto Lord like Noitora who aquired Shinigami powers, was still no match for a serious Kenpachi. I meant Ichigo can only use Vizard form for like 9 seconds. And Ichigo did not beat Kenpachi. It was a draw, and actually, Ichigo fell first, and from only one wound.

8. Yeah, she is almost as fast as Yoruichi.

9. He was effortlessly doing so.

10. He was also put through arduous, special, "Urahara" training, which does wacky shit like let you achieve Bankai in 3 days. Combine that with Ichigo's growth rate, not surprising, and he already had an enormous Reitsu to begin with.

11. ...I know, but what I am saying is, if Kenny didn't toy with Ichigo, Kenny would have easily won, even if Ichigo had his amp.

12. Exactly, Kenny is the source of his own PIS which negatively affects him.

13. ...I was talking about when Kenny showed his power goes over 9,000 when he uses two hands, as shown when he killed Noitora.

14. Yeah, but my point is, Ichigo was pressed into fighting a weaker opponent, and Kenny when serious easily beat Noitora.

Based on what? And Espada and a Vizard are pretty much the same damn thing, only one is more Hollow and the other is more Shinigami. Kenny does not need to be redeemed from losing a PIS fight.

15. That would just be stupid IMO...

"ZOMG! T3h trufs is, I, t3H Halibel, 15 t3h #1!!!

Originally posted by dadudemon
I don't remember anywhere in the manga that a Vizard used or said they could use Cero.

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/236/10/
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/236/11/

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. Ichigo's only powers involve using his sword and shooting a beam from it. That's it.

Watch this...

Aisen's powers only consist of having uber reistus and tricking people a la zanpaktou hypnotizing powers

Other than her kidou, Rukia only does variations of ice attacks.

Soifan only does hand to hand combat and death stabs.

Yammy only does fire attacks.

Ikkaku is only melee.

Toushirou is only ice attacks.

Matsumoto is only "dust sword."

See how that works? That was my point earlier.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
2. ...That has only worked on Hanataro, Ichigo at first, and arguably Tosen. Against his stronger opponents like Noitora, the "psychological" aspect didn't occur.

You just named all the fights we know about. lol

And it DID work on #4. He was freaking the **** out.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
3. ANY Shinigami can sharpen their Zanpakuto, that is one of the most basic abilities, hell, Kenny can too, cutting a building in half ftw. And his blade beam is his only X-Factor.

Obviously, not to the extent of Ichigo. Ichigo can also make his sword super hard. (lol)

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
4. Yeah, which he cannot control. Aizen has the single most impressive Reitsu in the series, yet can seal his Zanpakuto. Yamamoto also has very powerful Reitsu, but can seal it.

You've got a point. However, the writer's point is that their reitsu was too powerful from the begining. I'm sure that both Yami and Aizen worked their way up in reitsu power, but Ichigo and Kenpachi didn't.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
5. Agreed, Ichigo's growth rate is nothing short of astounding. But growth rate does not matter as much in the fight.

But.....Almost everyone of Ichigo's major fights involved him growing in the fight as it happened. So it does matter........a lot.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
6. I am pretty sure that Shinji was able to use Cero, and it would make sense.

True. I just saw the scans. I was thinking that Ichigo couldn't use it...but I forgot about the other Vizards.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Sure, it makes you stronger than a Hollow or Shinigami, by combining both...Like an Espada. And no, when Aizen left, he remarked that he has mastered Shinigami powers to such an extent he simply could not get any stronger, so to get stronger he must aquire and master Hollow powers.

I think I'm getting my idea from reading that the Vizard form makes you stronger than hollow or shinigami. Also, I don't think it makes them geometrically stronger, anymore. I just reviewed all his fights when he used the Vizard form and he is marginally stronger and faster.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
7. What? What does that have to do with anything? What I was saying is that a Vasto Lord like Noitora who aquired Shinigami powers, was still no match for a serious Kenpachi. I meant Ichigo can only use Vizard form for like 9 seconds. And Ichigo did not beat Kenpachi. It was a draw, and actually, Ichigo fell first, and from only one wound.

Ichigo is stronger than Kenpachi. That's what it means. Ichigo has gotten nothing but stronger since that fight. He also has much better reitsu control since their fight. Like it or not, Ichigo IS stronger than Kenpachi. That's the way the writer wrote the story.

No. Ichigo can now use it for a long fuggin' time.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
9. He was effortlessly doing so.

I'm lost, now. I have no idea which comment that was referring to. Do the quote thingie that I am. It's easier to follow.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
11. ...I know, but what I am saying is, if Kenny didn't toy with Ichigo, Kenny would have easily won, even if Ichigo had his amp.

I'm not sure what you mean about the "amp" part. If you mean at the very end, no, you're wrong. They both went "over 9000" at the end. Ichigo had better reitsu control and sharpened his sword more than Kenpachi's.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
12. Exactly, Kenny is the source of his own PIS which negatively affects him.

Tis a shame. He's one of my favorites. I love it how he LOVES to fight for the thrill of it.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
13. ...I was talking about when Kenny showed his power goes over 9,000 when he uses two hands, as shown when he killed Noitora.

Right. That was a PIS device. Many times, warriors have used both hands and we didn't see that. To make sense of it, we can just assume that he has special training that makes it like that.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
14. Yeah, but my point is, Ichigo was pressed into fighting a weaker opponent, and Kenny when serious easily beat Noitora.

Weaker? Which weaker opponent? Grimmjow? Weaker by what measurement? Weaker as in weaker than #5?

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Kenny does not need to be redeemed from losing a PIS fight.

Not inside the Bleach universe, no, he doesn't. But to the reader, yes, he did. To me, it was quite obvious that that is what the writer was doing. A one-up on Ichigo, if you may.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
15. That would just be stupid IMO...

What would? I'm confused again.

That the writer is going to make it a "SURPRISE!!! You all guessed wrong!" type of deal? Based on how his writing style has been in the past, I wouldn't put it past him to do something like that.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
"ZOMG! T3h trufs is, I, t3H Halibel, 15 t3h #1!!!

I like where you're going with this! And her #1 symbol is tatooed horizontally across her t*ts and she has to lift up that little top to prove it!

HOOOORAY!

PLOT INDUCED STUPIDITY

Originally posted by Quincy
Bring back Wonderwice! He was badass.

does anyone remember when Yammy, Wonderweiss, and Luppi entered the real world?

the shinigami research team said that three espada level arrancar just entered the real world

that makes him more powerful than some floozy fraccion

they really should bring him back

Originally posted by dadudemon
Watch this...

Aisen's powers only consist of having uber reistus and tricking people a la zanpaktou hypnotizing powers

Other than her kidou, Rukia only does variations of ice attacks.

Soifan only does hand to hand combat and death stabs.

Yammy only does fire attacks.

Ikkaku is only melee.

Toushirou is only ice attacks.

Matsumoto is only "dust sword."

See how that works? That was my point earlier.

You just named all the fights we know about. lol

And it DID work on #4. He was freaking the **** out.

Obviously, not to the extent of Ichigo. Ichigo can also make his sword super hard. (lol)

You've got a point. However, the writer's point is that their reitsu was too powerful from the begining. I'm sure that both Yami and Aizen worked their way up in reitsu power, but Ichigo and Kenpachi didn't.

But.....Almost everyone of Ichigo's major fights involved him growing in the fight as it happened. So it does matter........a lot.

True. I just saw the scans. I was thinking that Ichigo couldn't use it...but I forgot about the other Vizards.

I think I'm getting my idea from reading that the Vizard form makes you stronger than hollow or shinigami. Also, I don't think it makes them geometrically stronger, anymore. I just reviewed all his fights when he used the Vizard form and he is marginally stronger and faster.

Ichigo is stronger than Kenpachi. That's what it means. Ichigo has gotten nothing but stronger since that fight. He also has much better reitsu control since their fight. Like it or not, Ichigo IS stronger than Kenpachi. That's the way the writer wrote the story.

No. Ichigo can now use it for a long fuggin' time.

I'm lost, now. I have no idea which comment that was referring to. Do the quote thingie that I am. It's easier to follow.

I'm not sure what you mean about the "amp" part. If you mean at the very end, no, you're wrong. They both went "over 9000" at the end. Ichigo had better reitsu control and sharpened his sword more than Kenpachi's.

Tis a shame. He's one of my favorites. I love it how he LOVES to fight for the thrill of it.

Right. That was a PIS device. Many times, warriors have used both hands and we didn't see that. To make sense of it, we can just assume that he has special training that makes it like that.

Weaker? Which weaker opponent? Grimmjow? Weaker by what measurement? Weaker as in weaker than #5?

Not inside the Bleach universe, no, he doesn't. But to the reader, yes, he did. To me, it was quite obvious that that is what the writer was doing. A one-up on Ichigo, if you may.

What would? I'm confused again.

That the writer is going to make it a "SURPRISE!!! You all guessed wrong!" type of deal? Based on how his writing style has been in the past, I wouldn't put it past him to do something like that.

I like where you're going with this! And her #1 symbol is tatooed horizontally across her t*ts and she has to lift up that little top to prove it!

HOOOORAY!

Right, she has Kido, a Zanpakuto, but kinda sucks at it, is fast, and has ice attacks. Making her more versatile than Ichigo. Not as powerful. But more versatile.

Soifon also has Flash Cry, combining H2H with Kido, along with H2H and death stabs. And that is just all she has shown with her Shikai.

Yamamoto has only been seen releasing his Zanpakuto...We haven't seen him actually fight...

Hm, forgot about Ikkaku, nevermind, he is the most one-dimensional character. Still strong.

And is versatile at using them. Ice dragons, ice stabs, happy shit.

True, but then again, she is also only Lieutenant level, so she does not even get a Bankai, but is still about as versatile as Ichigo.

2. Only after he cut him. And when Noitora regained the upper hand, he was supremely arrogant once again, until Kenny released the power of Two Hands.

3. Not to the extent of Ichigo based on what? Considering characters like Aizen and Ulquiorra have beaten Ichigo using a Zanpakuto bare-handed. And Kenny has shown the far superior cutting feats.

4. The writer stressed that they had powerful Reitsu from the beginning, yeah. Aizen had to build up? Aizen is still pretty damn young in comparison with other characters, hell, I would not be surprised if Kenny was older than him, he looks it. Aizen is as powerful or moreso than Yamamoto, despite probably being like 1/5 or less of his age. And the writer stressed it was poor Reitsu control that disallows Ichigo and Kenny from sealing their Zanpakutos. Kenny's Reitsu control is honestly shit, like Ichigo, he is unable to suppress his Reitsu in any way, even while sealing his power with the eyepatch. Hell, he doesn't even know his Zanpakuto's name. Reitsu control has nearly nothing to do with cutting ability, amount and bond with Zanpakuto do.

5. Let me rephrase this. In a forum fight, that doesn't matter.

6. Ichigo is stronger than Kenny based on what? A PIS fight that clearly would have ended differently if Kenny were serious?

Doesn't he lose control when in Vizard form too long though?

7. I don't know how to do the quote thingie.

8. Kenny was suffering 6-9 grievous wounds on his body by the time Kenny powered up, whereas Ichigo was the entire time and had no wounds. Kenny then felled Ichigo in one blow, and Ichigo's cut to Kenny in comparison with the one Kenny gave him was not very deep at all, in fact, only like 3 inches or so through his skin, whereas Kenny's sword went through Ichigo. Ichigo fell first. This is a fact. Kenny stood until he lost to much blood, from like 10 different lacerations around his chest, neck, and ribs. Kenny, if both fought with the power of that final clash with both 100% un-injured, Kenny would have won.

9. Well Kenny actually stated that the whole "two hands" shenanigans was the result of Kenpo training. So yeah, he cut through 8 released Zanpakuto from the 5th Espada, along with the Espada himself, who had one of the hardest "Hierros"(defenses) of them all, and did so easily while badly wounded himself. Kenny when serious is nothing to fvck with.

10. Noitora is one rank higher than Grimmjowe.

11. Everyone falls to PIS if they must, hell, Kenny drawing the fight on longer than one attack was PIS, Kenny serious beat him in one move.

12. ...I just think it would be stupid to make a lazy bum like Stark or a walking fanservice machine like Halibel(come on, you know that's what she is 131) being top Espada when Barragan was built up to be top and exerts authority over both wouldn't be believable...And I like Barragan more. 😐

Not in terms of sexiness though, Halibel is t3h shiznit in that department.

amen to that last part

funny how they're allowed to show top and inner side cleavage in the anime, but not bottom cleavage

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. Incorrect, Aizen also has ridiculous power over Kido, actually stalemating Kido Captain shop-guy I think(whatever the hell his name is), and beating a bloodlusted Captain, Sajin, who was using his Bankai, with a level 99 Kido.

True, but he doesn't hasn't used it since the old days because he's one dimensional. 😐

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Right, she has Kido, a Zanpakuto, but kinda sucks at it, is fast, and has ice attacks. Making her more versatile than Ichigo. Not as powerful. But more versatile.

But those things do jack diddly with anyone over her level, which has been proven. She is very one dimensional when fighting strong characters. Just variations of ice attacks.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Soifon also has Flash Cry, combining H2H with Kido, along with H2H and death stabs. And that is just all she has shown with her Shikai.

Right, going from H2H combat to SUPER H2H combat, both mixed with flash steps that Ichigo can do. So how was that a counter? 😄

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Yamamoto has only been seen releasing his Zanpakuto...We haven't seen him actually fight....

True. We will probably get to see him improve. He probably has super kidou as well...but we've only seen him do fire bending with his sword. 😐 hahahahahaha

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Hm, forgot about Ikkaku, nevermind, he is the most one-dimensional character. Still strong.

True. But, again, he probably knows Kidou. Just like all the characters I mentioned. But they fight dimensionally...which is worse that Ichigo's situation.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
And is versatile at using them. Ice dragons, ice stabs, happy shit.

True, but that is not a counter to him being a very one dimensional fighter.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
True, but then again, she is also only Lieutenant level, so she does not even get a Bankai, but is still about as versatile as Ichigo.

I'd say, no. She is not as versatile as Ichigo. Her sword is really versatile in a physical sense, but her ability to fight and defeat different enemies is not on the same level as Ichigo; so she is not as versatile. She is, however, able to fight really well.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
2. Only after he cut him. And when Noitora regained the upper hand, he was supremely arrogant once again, until Kenny released the power of Two Hands..

But the psychological aspect of it still played a roll in that fight. That's his thing. That was my point. One could argue that #5 was less versatile after he started flipping out, making him more susceptible to the final sword strike. Technically, Kenpachi should have been too slow to keep up. Do you honestly think that Kenpachi is as fast as Ichigo's Bankai form? Do you honestly think that Kenpachi is faster than Sea Shell head captain when Ichigo was supposed to be faster than Sea Shell head captain in Bankai form? Hmm?

Let's call that fight simply PIS, shall we?

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
3. Not to the extent of Ichigo based on what? Considering characters like Aizen and Ulquiorra have beaten Ichigo using a Zanpakuto bare-handed. And Kenny has shown the far superior cutting feats.

Ichigo hardened his Zanpakatou to uber levels...enough to cut through Kenpachi's sword. That was the whole point of "WHY!?!?!?" Ichigo won that fight.

Ichigo was also badly injured and had next to nothing in reitsu left when he finally fought #5. Since Grimmjow's form was similar to Ichigo's bankai as far as a speed boost goes, I would say that Grimmjow was a faster fighter than #5 in his released form. Also, because Ichigo didn't have any reitsu left, he didn't have a way to harden his sword or basically sharpen it enough to do anything to that uber armor of the Esapda.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
4. The writer stressed that they had powerful Reitsu from the beginning, yeah. Aizen had to build up? Aizen is still pretty damn young in comparison with other characters, hell, I would not be surprised if Kenny was older than him, he looks it. Aizen is as powerful or moreso than Yamamoto, despite probably being like 1/5 or less of his age. And the writer stressed it was poor Reitsu control that disallows Ichigo and Kenny from sealing their Zanpakutos..

True on all accounts. We agree there. But I am saying that those two can't do it becaue their reitsu was too powerful from the beginning to be able to "learn" it. They have suppressed their swords greatly. Absurdly, actually. Ichigo's father said that the Captains would be lugging around skyscrappers if they didn't do it. In fact, Ichigo is so good at it that his suppressed form on his Zanpakatou is so focused that it is a power increase and speed increase instead of a hindrance. (his bankai form is a ultra compact form ....)

We know that he has to be much older than 100 years becaue there was a flash back to that time when he was doing experiments at that age. We've seen that people in soul society even grow up very very slowly. Ichigo has been at this for less than a year and he's already one of the strongest fighters in the entire Bleach universe. Can Ichigo be cut some slack for not being able to seal his zanpakatou after less than a year at being at this? Also, I suspect that it took so long to do his Vizard from mastery because he has such little experience as a shinigami with too much reistsu making it very hard to focus that form properly.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Kenny's Reitsu control is honestly shit, like Ichigo, he is unable to suppress his Reitsu in any way, even while sealing his power with the eyepatch. Hell, he doesn't even know his Zanpakuto's name. Reitsu control has nearly nothing to do with cutting ability, amount and bond with Zanpakuto do.

Unless Kenpachi's fight with #5 was PIS, he does have excellent control when it comes to focusing his blade's sharpness.

And, no, you're wrong about that last part. It is bond and the ability to focus your reitsu correctly that makes your sword sharper. The anime expanded on that, visually, to give a better idea of what it meant in the manga.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
5. Let me rephrase this. In a forum fight, that doesn't matter.

Since we're talking about the manga, it does matter. That's they way it is.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
6. Ichigo is stronger than Kenny based on what? A PIS fight that clearly would have ended differently if Kenny were serious?

Actually, I've already shown that Kenpachi's fight with #5 is technically PIS and his fight with Ichigo wouldn't be. Ichigo's fight with Grimmjow taking so long is also PIS. He should have wiped the floor with Grimmjow. Watch, his fight with #4 will take forever too. It's a story.

And when has Kenpachi shown that he goes 100% from the beginning of any fight? Exactly.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Doesn't he lose control when in Vizard form too long though?

Not anymore.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
7. I don't know how to do the quote thingie.?

Copy and paste the tags, like I do. for instance, when I quoted your post...I end up with several tags...I've added spaces to show you what it is...

[ QUOTE=11275593 ][ i ] Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx [ /i ]
[ B ] *insert your post stuff here* [ /B ][ /QUOTE ]

You can simply copy and paste the first part and the closing part for every piece of my post you want to separate out. It is really easy. It can get confusing, though, so always do it in a pair. In other words, if there is one sentence you would like to make a point about, put the first part on at the beginning, and put the last part at the end of the sentence before you do anything else or else you could make a mess beyond repair. Be liberal with the "enter" key so you can space out each sentence. Always hit "preview reply" to make sure your tags worked correctly so you don't look like a newb.

SIMPLE!

If that doesn't help...I could record a video on put it on youtube, just for you. 😄 Seriously. 😐

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
8. Kenny was suffering 6-9 grievous wounds on his body by the time Kenny powered up,

They were superficial. Nothing deep. They were mere mosquito bites to Kenpachi.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
whereas Ichigo was the entire time and had no wounds. Kenny then felled Ichigo in one blow, and Ichigo's cut to Kenny in comparison with the one Kenny gave him was not very deep at all, in fact, only like 3 inches or so through his skin, whereas Kenny's sword went through Ichigo.

You make it sound so insignificant. Ichigo almost sliced a third of his torso off at the right shoulder and Kenpachi almost ran Ichigo through, AGAIN!

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Ichigo fell first. This is a fact. Kenny stood until he lost to much blood, from like 10 different lacerations around his chest, neck, and ribs. Kenny, if both fought with the power of that final clash with both 100% un-injured, Kenny would have won..

I fully agree with you. However, Ichigo is Kenpachi's best friend after that fight. That was kind of the point of that fight so that the writer could write in a time that Kenpachi fights for himself AND for his friend. Which, imo, played out very nicely. I thought that that aspect of it was written well and developed each character nicely. It's one of the reasons I like Bleack.

Also, Ichigo won, Kenpachi lost. The author wrote it that way. Kenpachi said it, too. Ichigo's resolve was more focused than Kenpachi's and he cut Ken's sword.

Ichigo also beat sea sheall head captain. Same scenario. You can't say that Ichigo has better reitsu control than Sea Sheall Head, can you? I highly doubt that. But he certainly focused his reitsu enough to make his sword significantly sharper and harder than SSH to cut through his sword.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
9. Well Kenny actually stated that the whole "two hands" shenanigans was the result of Kenpo training. So yeah, he cut through 8 released Zanpakuto from the 5th Espada, along with the Espada himself, who had one of the hardest "Hierros"(defenses) of them all, and did so easily while badly wounded himself. Kenny when serious is nothing to fvck with.

I take sh*ts on him when he sleeps. I pull his spikey hair just for fun. He ain't nothin'. Also, the espada could have been exaggerating about his "hardness".

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
10. Noitora is one rank higher than Grimmjowe.

That doesn't mean that Grimmjow didn't have things about him that were better than #5.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
11. Everyone falls to PIS if they must, hell, Kenny drawing the fight on longer than one attack was PIS, Kenny serious beat him in one move.

Indeed. And, as I've pointed out, that was probably PIS that he won that fight and PIS that he lost to Ichigo.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
12. ...I just think it would be stupid to make a lazy bum like Stark or a walking fanservice machine like Halibel(come on, you know that's what she is 131) being top Espada when Barragan was built up to be top and exerts authority over both wouldn't be believable...And I like Barragan more. 😐.

I don't like Barragan. He's a grumpy arrogant old man. I don't like those types. I think we aren't supposed to like him, anyway.

I wouldn't mind the lazy guy being #1. What if he's lazy because he is so uber that he doesn't have to work very hard except when training?

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Not in terms of sexiness though, Halibel is t3h shiznit in that department.

Hmm...I agree and disagree. If I could see her entire face, I could make a better judgement against Halibel.

Also, my reply may have many mistakes in it. I had to type this up throughout the day because I was busy...so losing my train of thought may have effed reasoning up because of word placement mistakes and grammar mistakes.