Originally posted by crimsonphoenix
remember this about sage. "What she sees,she remembers:what she remembers can be recalled in an instant, with perfect clarity. Yet she remains an enigma. Her teamates know little of her, yet she seems to know everything about them "
Tactically i'd say she's superior... just how is she going to back that ability up?
She'd have to be terribly sneaky...
Originally posted by crimsonphoenixThere is a difference between knowing something, and being able to do something about it I'm afraid. Eidetic memory by itself means very little.
remember this about sage. "What she sees,she remembers:what she remembers can be recalled in an instant, with perfect clarity. Yet she remains an enigma. Her teamates know little of her, yet she seems to know everything about them "
In that fight Emma got cocky - that's all. There's some serious misconception of what Emma was doing to Storm. She attacked Storm up close, trying to alter her perceptions and mentality, which is more akin to mental surgery with a psychic scalpel than psiblasts which are more akin to hacking away at someone's mind with a psychic machete. The former requires precision and time and is more open to resistance, the latter much less so.
Seconds more and she would have likely succeeded in altering Storm's mind too.
This is what happens when Emma psiblasts Storm (and Colossus and Wolverine)...
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
In that fight Emma got cocky - that's all. There's some serious misconception of what Emma was doing to Storm. She attacked Storm up close, trying to [b]alter her perceptions and mentality, which is more akin to mental surgery with a psychic scalpel than psiblasts which are more akin to hacking away at someone's mind with a psychic machete. The former requires precision and time and is more open to resistance, the latter much less so.
Seconds more and she would have likely succeeded in altering Storm's mind too.This is what happens when Emma psiblasts Storm (and Colossus and Wolverine)...
[/B]
X that occassion has already been debated months ago. Emma snuck up on the Xmen and psiblasted them from behind, giving them little chance to resist and they eventually fell. Despite being caught unawares It was far from an instantaneous process as is made quite clear from that comic.
That was the 2nd generation of Xmens firs encounter with a telepath, they had been a team for a few months, Xavier had given them training to resist telepathy but obviously against a good telepath like Emma and when caught unawares it makes little difference.
Since that initial encounter the Xmen went on to receive a lot more training, the idea that elecromagnetic energies disrupted psionic energies was introduced and Storm (having previously been a new somewhat undefined character) Storm was established as a character with tremendous willpower. With all those elements in place Storm went on to fight Emma a second time and Emma got pounded, she tried to psiblast Storm (bear in mind that Emma was a villain at this time) and she was resisted then Emma got her arse fried along with Sebastien Shaw who also sampled Storms own brand of texas justice.
In their third encounter Storm tried to save Emma after she was sent hurtling across the horizon and Emma repaid her with a psychic assault. Storm caught unawares resisted and lashed out with a lightning bolt. Emma was forced into diamond form and she was repelled with Storms winds and restrained.
Emma in her diamond form has many more areas of cleavage(NO i dont mean it like that lol) than a normal diamond, she has many extremities all of which when struck by a sudden sharp blow will shatter Emma. Diamonds are the hardest natural substance on Earth however they are very brittle please bear that in mind. If in a naturally occurring storm grass can penetrate concrete and trees then in winds psionically controlled by storm sufficent projectiles could very well shatter emma. It was no bluff. Emma structural integrity as it were because of her shape is a lot less secure than a normal diamond.
To summarise Emma as powerful a telepath as she is could not take out the Xmen with a psiblast instantly, with the little training they had they were still able to resist her for a little while before emms took them down, so it was far from an instantaneous process. Since then all of the Xmen have had training from the most powerful telepaths on the planet (who emma pales beside in comparison), Storms character more specifically her willpower was defined as part of what makes her storm in the comics and also the diea that electromagnetic energies can disrupt psionic power was stablished. All of these things explain why in subsequent battles since that first encounter, Storm has defeated Emma soundly.
Emma amongst such powerful opponents with long range abilities would need to be in diamond form or risk death. In diamond form she gets taken out through shattering, or battlefield removal (as storm has done to the hulk before but unlike him emma doesnt have 3 mile at a time jumping capabilities)
The second situation Storm was particularly enraged due to the body snatch. Does she have that state of mind in this fight, that would afford her increased willpower? (If that's the second encounter you're talking about)
Do you dispute my appraisal of the third situation, and my analogies?
There's a difference between psiblast and a trying to alter someone's mind. Emma was doing the latter.
Besides I'm sick of Storm verging on Wolverine/Batman levels of hype and the turning of her into a second-rate Magneto. She in no way has control over the electromagnetic spectrum.
She's a great character, I actually like her more than Emma and Rogue (but not Sage 😄) but the automatic assumption that she would win annoys me. Especially the assumption that if two of the characters double teamed her she'd still win and the strange notion that it takes effort for everyone else to use their powers except Storm.
Emma's a very powerful telepath if she psiblasts, Storm will feel it. If she's in flight (which for some reason always seems to be assumed in Storm threads from the get-go as well) she requires concentration, to use her powers requires concentration, I'd wager it's difficult to concentrate when one is being psiblasted. Rogue although unskilled in her new powers is still a formidable opponent with a very dangerous projectile power. Sage is an incredibly guileful adversary, she knows all three inside and out, her predictive ability given enough data is akin to precog and her movements are fluid with her mind, (overall I still think Sage with a mere dagger pulls off the win... 😄).
As to whether Storm can direct projectiles, that assumes there are projectiles. I'm not well versed on how diamonds fracture so perhaps you could elaborate a bit more. A regular diamond has 4 atomic planes and need to be struck at specific angles to fracture? (Storm achieves these specific angles how?) Emma's surface is smooth and curved... so she has more planes of cleavage? 😕
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
The second situation Storm was particularly enraged due to the body snatch. Does she have that state of mind in this fight, that would afford her increased willpower? (If that's the second encounter you're talking about)
Do you dispute my appraisal of the third situation, and my analogies?
There's a difference between psiblast and a trying to alter someone's mind. Emma was doing the latter.Besides I'm sick of Storm verging on Wolverine/Batman levels of hype and the turning of her into a second-rate Magneto. She in no way has control over the electromagnetic spectrum.
She's a great character, I actually like her more than Emma and Rogue (but not Sage 😄) but the automatic assumption that she would win annoys me. Especially the assumption that if two of the characters double teamed her she'd still win and the strange notion that it takes effort for everyone else to use their powers except Storm.
Emma's a very powerful telepath if she psiblasts, Storm [b]will
feel it. If she's in flight (which for some reason always seems to be assumed in Storm threads from the get-go as well) she requires concentration, to use her powers requires concentration, I'd wager it's difficult to concentrate when one is being psiblasted. Rogue although unskilled in her new powers is still a formidable opponent with a very dangerous projectile power. Sage is an incredibly guileful adversary, she knows all three inside and out, her predictive ability given enough data is akin to precog and her movements are fluid with her mind, (overall I still think Sage with a mere dagger pulls off the win... 😄).As to whether Storm can direct projectiles, that assumes there are projectiles. I'm not well versed on how diamonds fracture so perhaps you could elaborate a bit more. A regular diamond has 4 atomic planes and need to be struck at specific angles to fracture? (Storm achieves these specific angles how?) Emma's surface is smooth and curved... so she has more planes of cleavage? 😕 [/B]
In the second situation storm certainly was enraged but thats not an exception. In all matters to do with Emma Frost Storm takes a similar stance. That is one of the reasons Storm and Emma came into conflict on the third case, because Storm has a problem with her after all she has done in the past. Reread the issue to refresh your memory. In the third situation Emma it appears was trying to mentally alter Storms mind however since their first encounter as aforementioned marvel implemented some changes and Emma tried to psiblast storm and she got fried. Im not saying that means Storm will be forever immune from psiblasts from Emma, but given Storms record for resisting psychic assaults since then and even in very recent times and considering the circumstances of the battle affor Emma little time for such an assault i really dont see Emma having the upper hand. Storms resistance to Emma is down to not just her willpower but also the energies she wields and her training. In the circumstances of this battle Emma simply can not afford the time it will take to take down storm psionically with the other two around. If she did try to do it who is to say storm wont just blast her herself like she did on their second encounter. Storm has a good hustory of resisting telepathic assaults and for making it difficult for telepathic contact to be made in the first instance beacuse of the natre of her powers. That can not be ignored regardless of your feelings on the character.
How is Storm turning into a second rate Magneto or being hyped to ridiculous proportions? It is lack of knowledge on the true nature of storms abilities which gives a false impression that she's being hyped by fans or that she's being shown to do things people not in the know think she shouldnt be able to do. No Storm doesnt have control over the E.M spectrum to the extent Mags does, however i have previously explained to you what her actual powers are so her ability to create E.M.P's is completely feasible.
Storm due to the versatility and range of her powers could quite convincinly defeat the inexperienced, current rogue and emma frost together for the aforementioned reasons. Im not saying thats how it would definitely go because who am i or any of us to say that. But given the circumstances its quite possible given her experience and when you weigh up those characters attributes.
One on one storm debatably is the most likely to win out of these women. However because there are 4 combatants i cant say definitively who would win. Storm on paper wins this however Sage is very capable and could pull off a win depending on what th ethread maker allows her to have access to. If she has nothing but her powers then she goes down.
Oops forgot about the diamond cleavage thing lol. How Emma is depicted in the comics varies from artist to artist. She isnt always depicted as having a smooth diamond surface, especially since her shattering last year. She is sometimes shown with many lines and crevices running along her body which would make sense when you consider that people who can change their bodies into these alternate forms merely go through a conversion process wherein every cell of their bodies is replaced by an equivalent cell of the alternate material be it diamond or organic steel. Emma cannot be solid smooth diamond otherwise she would be able to move. She has joints and extremities and indentations on her body which provide points of cleavage. If a sudden sharp blow were to land on one of these extremities, joints or indentations then she could very well be shattered or taken out of the battle.
So that or Storm could just send her flying across the horizon. Battlefield removal is a valid win.
The thing about Emma is that she’s a lot like Charles: the world is their classroom. Emma is notorious for “disciplining” people, X-Men included. That’s just what Emma was doing to Storm in their last conflict. Had Emma wanted to take Storm out, she could have very easily. Everything Emma said before Storm hit her with lightning underscored the fact that she was out to cause Storm pain, not put her out of commission. Resistance or not, Storm isn’t immune to the powers of a psi, especially on Emma’s level.
As far as the actual battle is concerned, I think Emma would be one of, if not the last, standing. People often forget that TPs have more tricks than just mind-reading and psi-blasts. Emma can easily mask her presence from the others long enough for her to gain control of one of them.
I’m also certain that certain psi tricks work on Sage. Rachel still casts illusions to mask her scars, and I don’t recall there being a time when Sage was excepted from the illusion. And if Esme can take Sage down, then Emma would have no problem.
Another thing that people forget about TPs is that they not only affect the mind, but they affect the brain. They can bypass someone’s consciousness and directly control and manipulate their powers. Jean, Emma and Rachel have all done it. And we’ve seen in recently in effect on Storm.
BTW, Emma can use TP in her diamond form. Check out Astonishing #5. She’s clearly sparkling while using TP against the guards after their psi scramblers have been deactivated. I think using TP in diamond form is something that she had to get used to.
no, it has been confirmed that emma can't use tp in diamond form. any indication of her doing so was a mistake on the artists part. it has clearly been stated many times that emma can't use telepathy in diamond form. and just going by pure will, storm can resist rachel. so if she actually used her own electromagnetic energies, and/or a lightning field, then it would take time for emma to do it. you seem to forget that a psi-blast doesn't happen instantley when you have a person as resistant as storm is. it only takes one second for a lightning stroke to take place, and that will take emma out of force her into diamond form in which she cannot access her telepathy
no, it has been confirmed that emma can't use tp in diamond form. any indication of her doing so was a mistake on the artists part. it has clearly been stated many times that emma can't use telepathy in diamond form.
and just going by pure will, storm can resist rachel. so if she actually used her own electromagnetic energies, and/or a lightning field, then it would take time for emma to do it.
you seem to forget that a psi-blast doesn't happen instantley when you have a person as resistant as storm is. it only takes one second for a lightning stroke to take place, and that will take emma out of force her into diamond form in which she cannot access her telepathy