Originally posted by joeyvermont
yoda is better than tyranus if he got to fight him longer than he did he would have one. He only stopped fighting to save obi won kenobi and anakin skywalker, surely you can agree with that, most people do
Um... Dooku could tool Sidious in a lightsaber fight... Yoda cannot.
Dooku was on par with Yoda on the AOTC fight. Dooku left because he had the plans of the Death star on him.
Dooku and Yoda are pretty on par with skill but Dooku is an inch better.
Originally posted by Redeemer
Um... Dooku could tool Sidious in a lightsaber fight... Yoda cannot.Dooku was on par with Yoda on the AOTC fight. Dooku left because he had the plans of the Death star on him.
Dooku and Yoda are pretty on par with skill but Dooku is an inch better.
1. Redeemer, considering how you have not seen Count Dooku battle Darth Sidious, you do not know - nor do you have proof - that would support that theory. You assume, as do I, that Dooku could do it. But no. You do NOT know, so don't act like it.
2. As for the Death Star plans, if he were absolutely concerned about his master receiving them - he wouldn't have taken his jolly time when handling Anakin and Obi-Wan. It seems to me that he wanted to show his superiority with those two Jedi Knights - but his confidance shrank when he knew Yoda was much more powerful than those two and he engaged in a fight he apparently couldn't win.
3. In terms of sheer dueling skill - I would agree. Makashi is a form that focuses on lightsaber-to-lightsaber dueling. Whereas most other forms are focused on modern-age battles, such as deflecting blasters. Ataru or Ataro (I can't remember which) focuses on speed and raw power. But Yoda has the advantage in Force-power and in raw power.
So if Yoda and Dooku engaged in a duel where Yoda could not use the Force (that would also impair him for usage of Ataru. Or Ataro) then Count Dooku would school him. Otherwise, Yoda would eventually - in my opinion - triumph over the Count.
Originally posted by Darth Somebody
1. Redeemer, considering how you have not seen Count Dooku battle Darth Sidious, you do not know - nor do you have proof - that would support that theory. You assume, as do I, that Dooku could do it. But no. You do NOT know, so don't act like it.2. As for the Death Star plans, if he were absolutely concerned about his master receiving them - he wouldn't have taken his jolly time when handling Anakin and Obi-Wan. It seems to me that he wanted to show his superiority with those two Jedi Knights - but his confidance shrank when he knew Yoda was much more powerful than those two and he engaged in a fight he apparently couldn't win.
3. In terms of sheer dueling skill - I would agree. Makashi is a form that focuses on lightsaber-to-lightsaber dueling. Whereas most other forms are focused on modern-age battles, such as deflecting blasters. Ataru or Ataro (I can't remember which) focuses on speed and raw power. But Yoda has the advantage in Force-power and in raw power.
So if Yoda and Dooku engaged in a duel where Yoda could not use the Force (that would also impair him for usage of Ataru. Or Ataro) then Count Dooku would school him. Otherwise, Yoda would eventually - in my opinion - triumph over the Count.
1- Again, cop out. You could just as easily say there's no proof that Sidious could beat Obi-Wan Kenobi, since the altercation never occured. Everything here is assumptions, DS, remember that. And also remember that what makes one person's assumptions better than other is grounding in logic. If we couldn't make assumptions in this case, we could not operate as beings using abstract knowledge, let alone participate in this forum.
2- This is your opinion. Obviously you believe that Dooku was more intimidated by Yoda and thus cut his losses and ran. But you don't provide us with anything to prove that. I could just as easily say that Dooku ran because he believed such a fight would take too long and he couldn't risk being caught behind enemy lines. When Dooku stopped to fight Obi-Wan and Anakin, he obviously did not intend for Master Yoda to appear. I could also assume he was expecting Mace Windu instead, but that would be speculation too.
3- Always with you this apparent advantage in Force powers and raw power. Let me get this straight- you're saying that even though Yoda could not overcome Dooku with the Force and vice versa, that Yoda beats him for Force power? And that a two foot elderly jedi master has more "raw power" (Which you really should define for us) than a 6'4" human sith?
As for this last part, I don't disagree. I'm not out to champion Dooku at this point. I think the hole in Dooku's armor is insecurity, and that I have derived from the book Dark Rendezvous.
1. You're right. But then again, Yoda did say to Obi-Wan, "strong enough to defeat Sidious, you are not". So I REALLY doubt it, now. But that was a good example and your meaning was clear.
2. Actually, that also makes sense. The fight could've taken too long. Which is another good explanation. Never really thought about it that way, before. Obviously, Dooku wasn't going to own Yoda. Or vice versa, for that matter.
3. Which brings me to a point. Dooku was still unable to defeat Yoda on Vjun. But yes, it was partly due to his insecurity. Kind of like possibly why Voldemort fears Dumbledore (Harry Potter analogy. Perhaps it may make sense).
You know, I rather enjoy it when we do see eye to eye, and I think it's because it so rarely happens. But I'm glad you at least see where I'm coming from and vice versa.
1- Again, got my point. We have to make due with what we have. And in cases where it's apparent no more evidence my be forthcoming (for the time being) it won't hurt to decide upon a temporary judgment. Now, I've made some judgments about characters and duels since I came here, and my viewpoints on more than a few have changed because of new information or a new viewpoint that makes more sense.
2- Yep. That's about it. Dooku had a few good reasons for booking it, although I suspect it was because he needed that fifteen minutes of fame in ROTS.
3- Not well read on HP at all, but I get the idea. Dooku still loves his old master, but he fears betraying Sidious, and it's never said why. It could be Dooku was afraid of fighting Sidious, but why would that be? I mean, they hadn't fought before, had they? Or perhaps Sidious convinced Dooku that the gap between their levels of skill was that much bigger. That would not surprise me. Or perhaps it was something else... Blackmail, perhaps? I'm open to ideas on that subject.
Originally posted by Darth Somebody
Probably. If Yoda can make Dooku feel insecure, I'm sure Sidious can. Sidious, from the Dark Rendezvous book, seemed to toy with Dooku. Dooku did seemed shocked when Ventress suggested he kill Sidious.
Dark Rendevous is not CANON WHATSOEVER! Hell, the ROTS book isn't even Canon. Don't even try to bring books into this shit!
Yoda never made Dooku feel insecure. Dooku has known Yoda ALL HIS LIFE! I am sure he knows how he fights as well.
Yoda and Dooku have the same force power strength. This is shown on AOTC, as they do not solve the battle using force.
Originally posted by Redeemer
Dark Rendevous is not CANON WHATSOEVER! Hell, the ROTS book isn't even Canon. Don't even try to bring books into this shit!Yoda never made Dooku feel insecure. Dooku has known Yoda ALL HIS LIFE! I am sure he knows how he fights as well.
Yoda and Dooku have the same force power strength. This is shown on AOTC, as they do not solve the battle using force.
1. I wouldn't say that if I were you. If that is the case, than Anakin did indeed overpower and outfight Count Dooku all on his own. If that is true - then I suppose Count Dooku really isn't on par with Yoda as we all like to believe. Because in the movie, it never stated that Dooku was holding back.
2. In Attack of The Clones - Dooku was on the offensive and tried to attack Yoda using the Force. Yoda nullified it all, and only once threw the lightning back. Dooku reflected it. All other times, Yoda simply casted the debris away instead of trying to harm Dooku. And no. Yoda and Sidious are on par with one another in the Force. They are the strongest in the movies.
Originally posted by Redeemer
Um... Dooku could tool Sidious in a lightsaber fight... Yoda cannot.Dooku was on par with Yoda on the AOTC fight. Dooku left because he had the plans of the Death star on him.
Dooku and Yoda are pretty on par with skill but Dooku is an inch better.