Bastila vs. ROTJ Luke

Originally posted by Darth_Janus
Somebody forgot to pay attention in the beginning FMV of KOTOR where Bastila single handedly kills a dark jedi.

A dark jedi that would give someone like ROTJ Luke (Who is not a jedi knight, I don't care what the hell you people try and say) fits and a half.

Bastila wins this.

What the hell Janus? Luke is a Jedi knight, saying he's not is simply a state of denial. Lucas says so, Yoda says so, the Emperor says so, the movie title is named Return of the Jedi for a reason.

Now really, compare all his powers to say, that of AOTC Obi.

Mind Trick=Tie, they both did it and no, it doesn't work on the strong minded, not even from Revan or the Exile.

Telekinesis=Tie, both brought their lightsabers to their hands fast with the Force, not much else to go on.

Blaster Deflection=Obi but barely, Obi deflected every bolt that headed his way even from Jango, Luke got hit in the hand by a stray blast when he was talking to Leia, but he was heavily out numbered by organic beings. Luke also deflected the blasts from a speeding speeder bike so he's not bad at all.

Force Jump=Tie, ESB Luke jumped out of the carbon chamber like a bullet and in ROTJ back flips onto a catwalk. Obi force jumps out of a pit and flips around in air while catching a lightsaber in TPM.

Force Choke=Luke, he choked Gammoreans and Obi doesn't.

Lightsaber Skill=?, Luke owned Vader in under a minute and Obi got owned by Count Dooku who is considerably stronger than Vader.

Force Resistance=?, probably Luke. Luke took about a minute of Force lightning from the Emperor (far more powerful in the Force than Dooku) isn't even breathing hard, and like 25 seconds later he gets up and drags Vader who's pretty heavy, all the way to a ship. Compared to AOTC Anakin who was down for about a minute, breathing hard from a quick 3 second blast from Dooku's (weaker than the Emperor) one handed blast.

Give Luke some credit Janus, he's far more powerful than you're talking.

And as for the fight, I'd say it's close and it depends on which Bastila this is. End of KOTOR would probably win but I doubt the start of KOTOR would.

First of all, Luke never ever owned Vader never. When he defeated Vader it was after a fight where Vader hardly tried.

Second of all, the things they did shows nothing really. Because the people they did it on can not be compared. Luke used it on Gamoreans who are idiots.

The things you base this argument on, make no sense, we can hardly claim either one as more powerful because of it.

I'm not saying Luke's necessarily more powerful than AOTC Obi but I think it's seriously unfair for you guys to say he's a farm boy with no training and can't take one force user. Nothing points that he was weak except for time of training, but look at Kyle Katarn, he killed a Dark Jedi that was basically a sith lord and had been through the valley of the Jedi with less training than Luke.

Jaden Korr defeated Ragnavion after barely any training, Revan and the Exile got really powerful in a very short amount of time.

And all you guys love to say Vader wasn't trying, but guess what, neither was Luke! He was trying even less to beat Vader than Vader was to beat Luke. If Vader could've beaten Luke, he would've done it like in ESb, but Vader got owned, it's as simple as that.

And Janus: Just because I like characters doesn't mean I think they're awesomely powerful, so I would appreciate you not saying things like that especially since you say Luke isn't even a Jedi in Return of the JEDI.

I already said Bastila would probably win if this was the end of KOTOR, but you're seriously underestimating Luke.

Hmm dude, Vader did win from Luke in ESB easily but he had the order to take him alive and it was his son, he wasn't trying to take Luke. Luke barely escaped alive and only because Vader didn't take his chance to kill him.

In ROTJ the same thing happened Vader had plenty of chances to kill Luke but again refused to do so, he was trying to convert Luke until the very last moment, and thats the moment where he was already down. So no he didn't want to kill Luke not because it was his son and not because of the Emperor and his orders. Its very simple all that he knew told him not to kill Luke, he would not want to do it.

And Luke had every intention of killing Vader when he took him down, the moment Vader was down that changed however but before that he used all the anger he had to take Vader down. Also note if Luke did defeat Vader fair it would be his physical strength and his speed that would have brought Vader down. Making Vader absolutely nothing compared to any real Jedi.

Revan and the Exile were also two completely different situations were once as powerful as powerful could be around that time, and the other still remembered the training and got the power from other people. Also its a game, Kyle Katarn like you said walked through the Valley of the Jedi. Now thts going to give you a shit load of power. Of course he was going to be powerful.

In ROTJ Vader only had one chance to kill Vader, when Luke let himself get captured and Vader had his lightsaber. Luke on the other hand, had two chances to kill Vader, the first when he kicked Vader down the stairs, and the second when he cut his hand off. And barely before, he was saying "I will not fight you father." He wanted to beat Vader but not kill him or he would've done so immediately after cutting his hand off. And you can say he was giving in to the dark side when he kicked him down the stairs and could've killed him. Instead he turned off his lightsaber, but Vader tried to kill him anyway when he was unarmed, and then when he threw the lightsaber.

Like I said before, neither Luke nor Vader was trying to kill the other and that makes them even (though Luke was trying less than Vader) and Luke owned him.

Revan couldn't even remember his name when people were talking about things he had done, the Exile hadn't used the Force in 7 years or so, and Kyle didn't go through the valley of the Jedi before fighting Jerec.
How did they get so powerful? Fighting constantly, learning directly from someone, and having incentive to get much stronger unlike most Jedi. Luke did all these things, that's how he gets so powerful so fast.

Emperor Revan is right. Luke wins for reasons he stated. Most of the reasons being given for Bastila being better is a denial of Luke's skill.

dark jedi and sith arent different so why do we call em different is that just before they were called sith??

Jesus, what a damn mess. One post at a time. ER and Glentract, you both disappoint me in this case...

well he was good enough to choke those damn pigly folk so he obviosly would choke the crap out of this bad boy

You dissapoint me in this case, Janus. To much is pointing for Luke being better for me to think otherwise at this time.

Originally posted by DarthMaul9123
well he was good enough to choke those damn pigly folk so he obviosly would choke the crap out of this bad boy

Wow! He force choked two-on second thought I am too repulsed to even argue with this dude.

Originally posted by Emperor Revan
What the hell Janus? Luke is a Jedi knight, saying he's not is simply a state of denial. Lucas says so, Yoda says so, the Emperor says so, the movie title is named Return of the Jedi for a reason.

Now really, compare all his powers to say, that of AOTC Obi.

Mind Trick=Tie, they both did it and no, it doesn't work on the strong minded, not even from Revan or the Exile.

Telekinesis=Tie, both brought their lightsabers to their hands fast with the Force, not much else to go on.

Blaster Deflection=Obi but barely, Obi deflected every bolt that headed his way even from Jango, Luke got hit in the hand by a stray blast when he was talking to Leia, but he was heavily out numbered by organic beings. Luke also deflected the blasts from a speeding speeder bike so he's not bad at all.

Force Jump=Tie, ESB Luke jumped out of the carbon chamber like a bullet and in ROTJ back flips onto a catwalk. Obi force jumps out of a pit and flips around in air while catching a lightsaber in TPM.

Force Choke=Luke, he choked Gammoreans and Obi doesn't.

Lightsaber Skill=?, Luke owned Vader in under a minute and Obi got owned by Count Dooku who is considerably stronger than Vader.

Force Resistance=?, probably Luke. Luke took about a minute of Force lightning from the Emperor (far more powerful in the Force than Dooku) isn't even breathing hard, and like 25 seconds later he gets up and drags Vader who's pretty heavy, all the way to a ship. Compared to AOTC Anakin who was down for about a minute, breathing hard from a quick 3 second blast from Dooku's (weaker than the Emperor) one handed blast.

Give Luke some credit Janus, he's far more powerful than you're talking.

And as for the fight, I'd say it's close and it depends on which Bastila this is. End of KOTOR would probably win but I doubt the start of KOTOR would.

1- Luke Skywalker has how much training exactly? How many lightsaber users has he fought? Does hsi experience vastly outweigh Bastila's? No, so please, stuff this idea. GL can say Luke is a jedi knight, big ****ing deal. Luke can't beat a jedi knight wight more training and more experience than himself. It's not happening. If you have two soldiers, and one has ten years of experience and the other three months, you cannot say the one with less experience is just as good. It doesn't follow.

2- This is stupid. You're comparing ROTJ Luke with AOTC Obi-Wan? ER, do you have some sort of stake involved in the success of Luke? Because I can't think of anyone who would argue such a losing idea. Let's refute your foolish points one by one.

Mind Trick= Doesn't affect the battle. Nice try.

Telekinesis= Both can do it. So can Bastila. Again, no point made.

Blaster Deflection= Other than the fact that AOTC Obi-Wan was MUCh better at it then Luke, and that it doesn't even make a damn difference in this fight, I must say, nice try.

Force Jump= Is there a jedi who can't force jump? Oh, wait, even younglings can.

Force choke= Yes, Luke does Force choke something with the IQ and willpower of dried paint. But Obi doesn't, BECAUSE HE'S A JEDI! I mean, think before you say these things... It's ridiculous.

Force resistance= Again, READ MY EARLIER POSTS!!! You cannot tell me with any degree of certainty that Dooku's lightning was weaker or stronger or even on par with Sidious', considering they both act differently at different times! If Sidious' lightning was always the same, why did it blow Yoda back, but only torture Mace and Luke? Because it obviously can have different degrees of power! And considering that Dooku can do the about the same amount of concussive force as Sidious can using only one hand, I'm surprised you aren't here saying that Dooku could possibly be stronger, meaning Anakin suffered a lot more than Luke did. Anyways, this can't be accurately measured, and even if it could, Luke being able to twitch and suffer under a minute's worth of lightning doesn't make him win the fight.

And no, I won't give credit where it isn't do. And ROTJ Luke isn't a real jedi, he's the next best thing in a world where all other jedi are dead or in hiding. He doesn't even abide by the jedi code!

And any Bastila could win this, because she is capable enough at the start of KOTOR to take Luke.

Originally posted by Emperor Revan
I'm not saying Luke's necessarily more powerful than AOTC Obi but I think it's seriously unfair for you guys to say he's a farm boy with no training and can't take one force user. Nothing points that he was weak except for time of training, but look at Kyle Katarn, he killed a Dark Jedi that was basically a sith lord and had been through the valley of the Jedi with less training than Luke.

Jaden Korr defeated Ragnavion after barely any training, Revan and the Exile got really powerful in a very short amount of time.

And all you guys love to say Vader wasn't trying, but guess what, neither was Luke! He was trying even less to beat Vader than Vader was to beat Luke. If Vader could've beaten Luke, he would've done it like in ESb, but Vader got owned, it's as simple as that.

And Janus: Just because I like characters doesn't mean I think they're awesomely powerful, so I would appreciate you not saying things like that especially since you say Luke isn't even a Jedi in Return of the JEDI.

I already said Bastila would probably win if this was the end of KOTOR, but you're seriously underestimating Luke.

Don't point to other people. We're dealing with Luke Skywalker, who wasn't a soldier like Kyle Katarn. He could barely deal with a few stormtroopers in ROTJ, or did you fast forward past that part every time? The odds are against Luke in this battle.

And if Luke wasn't trying, I should go and swing like a madman at my friends next time we mock fight, because it sure as hell looked like he was trying to me. Please.... Try to form a decent argument.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
You dissapoint me in this case, Janus. To much is pointing for Luke being better for me to think otherwise at this time.

Like what?

Nothing?

That's what I thought.

People, people please lets all calm down here everyone is entiled to their own opinon (dammit Dipsit your supposed to be doing this not me!).

Originally posted by Rayvann Sadow
People, people please lets all calm down here everyone is entiled to their own opinon (dammit Dipsit your supposed to be doing this not me!).

No, I'm making sense. Glentract and emperor Revan are jumping on the Luke Skywalker bandwagon and they don't have a damn thing to prove in their favor. Honestly? I'm getting more than a bit sick of this forum. The fights are drying up, and it's more newbies than anything. All the good debaters are here less and less every day, and then this crap pops up and I have to contend with two people arguing with me that Luke Skywalker could take anyone who wasn't half asleep and I'm just kinda tired of coming on here to argue to a wall.

Screw it, I'm not wasting my night here.

Originally posted by Darth_Janus
No, I'm making sense. Glentract and emperor Revan are jumping on the Luke Skywalker bandwagon and they don't have a damn thing to prove in their favor. Honestly? I'm getting more than a bit sick of this forum. The fights are drying up, and it's more newbies than anything. All the good debaters are here less and less every day, and then this crap pops up and I have to contend with two people arguing with me that Luke Skywalker could take anyone who wasn't half asleep and I'm just kinda tired of coming on here to argue to a wall.

Screw it, I'm not wasting my night here.

Your right about the fights drying up since everyone has done them all before and was not accusing you of not making sense as in fact I agree with you I just hate to see tempers flair over something as trival as an internet disagreement over who would win in a hypthetical SW battle. Truthfully this forum is dying however, I mean new members weren't always like this but now it seems that were getting a rash of rude, foolish and idotic members.