Originally posted by leonidas
no doubt about it, draco. the other thing that confuses me - there were about 4 posts saying DC is overpowered, yet the majority of the threads created (that use characters that are approximately even in power levels) have the MARVEL character defeating the DC character.what people fail to understand about the characters in dc is that they are iconic, a part of our culture and history. that can be both good and bad. the good thing is they are the originals. those who hold to tradition and a sense of . . . nostalgia, will forever love batman, wonderwoman, superman, aquaman. the BAD thing though is that because they were created first, others that followed were able to take the general idea of the characters and in SOME WAYS (in SOME eyes), make them better. marvel did this by granting their characters a 'never-before-achieved-up-til-that-time' level of 'humanity'. they saw what dc offered - god-like heroes, nearly infallible and unbeatable -- so they took things in a different direction. but had dc not paved the way for the medium, marvel may never have been what it is - IF it would have been at all.
seeing the success marvel was having with their 'human characters', dc was forced to change. but there was/is the problem - because their heroes ARE icons, how do they alter the characters WITHOUT fundamentally altering them?? they've struggled with it for decades now. have they fixed the problem and found a happy medium? i'm not sure. the quality of both story AND art has increased in the comic industry - it had to or it might not have survived. i've always enjoyed both, but they ARE distinct. i agree with long that marvel is more . . . complex, perhaps a bit more reflective of our world and its foibles/ perhaps that in itself is enough to explain why it is preferred - it is more easily related to. dc often tends to be a bit . . . simpler (though i think they have been muddying the waters more in the alst few years). but even if you DON'T enjoy dc, you should at least have respect for their history and acknowledge the PIVOTAL role characters like wonderwoman and superman played in the history of comics and beyond that, in popular culture itself.
end essay.
🙂
I agree totally.
I don't know a way they could make Superman more man and less super without basically losing what he is.
But until they do, most people who started off with Marve/x-men will probably never ever enjoy a Superman comic.
When people say "D.C is overpowered" they are partially right, seeing most of them read old pre-crisis issues and were like "WTF is this? He moved a planet out of the way of an astroid??"
Originally posted by long pig
Actually, quite the opposite.D.C is the Disney of comics, they have the ultra happy goody goody heroes who always saves the day.
Wonder Woman is perfect with no weaknesses, Superman is always happy go lucky ready to save the world, perfect looks, perfect parents, perfect power. It's too kiddy. Too unrealistic.There are hardly ever any type of conflicting (well, definitely none pre crisis).
Galactus is a prime example, he was one of, if not the first character who was a villain, but not really.
Yes he killed everyone with no remorse, but he didn't have a choice, he wasn't evil because he was above such terms.
D.C didn't have this, in D.C everything was cut and dry, black and white.
Only until recently did D.C realize no one relates to perfect heroes.
Most people outgrow D.C after they turn 15.Spiderman is the average joe, Wolverine is totally conflicted and wasn't at first a superhero at all. Ironman was a alcoholic. Strange was too, plus he has to refuse to help non magic problems.
Sorry LP your wrong on this 🙂 imo
Pre crisis DC was very similair to Marvel of the time and actually had probably more groundbreaking and angst, it certainly did shorly after retcon. To prove my point lets compare Angst, with big characters
At the time Marvel had a daring Iron man alcohol, X men and Spidey etc basically soap opera, Daredevil genius, Punisher extreme.
DC had pre crisis Swampthing - Alan Moores first DC work in 1983 🙂
LOSH e.g. Great Darkness saga etc. very dark
Teen Titans Perez and Wolfman rip off Claremont or do they? It was very similar to new Xmen but not convinced it was a complete rip off.
Shade - quirky extreme
Vigilante - violent
Directly after retcon
Doom Patrol - Crazy
Lobo - insane
Sandman - Boom
Hellraiser - Boom Boom
Swampthing gets darker still - Boom Boom Boom
Darkie Returns - Crash
Watchmen - Crash Bang Boom
etc etc etc etc etc
I'm sure I've missed a lot its all history 🙂
I rest my case -
Keep th faith 🙂
Stay Whirly 🤘
Most of the pre-crisis "angsty" characters were Marvel rip-offs, post-crisis they changed with the times to follow suit of Marvel.
It took D.C a long time to realize that times change, and they still haven't changed their core characters yet, at all.
Superman still can't intentionally do no wrong.
Batman still can do no wrong, even if it seems like he is, he really isn't.
Wonder Woman can do no wrong.
GL can do no wrong, even though he did wrong, it was right.
Flash has never done wrong.
D.C mostly is a time capsule to a time when grey never existed.
Originally posted by long pig
Most of the pre-crisis "angsty" characters were Marvel rip-offs, post-crisis they changed with the times to follow suit of Marvel.It took D.C a long time to realize that times change, and they still haven't changed their core characters yet, at all.
Superman still can't intentionally do no wrong.
Batman still can do no wrong, even if it seems like he is, he really isn't.
Wonder Woman can do no wrong.
GL can do no wrong, even though he did wrong, it was right.
Flash has never done wrong.D.C mostly is a time capsule to a time when grey never existed.
Does Supermans Morality make him less adult, no I would argue it makes him more grown up.
Angst and Soap opera Marvel pre crisis took it. But: read the Denny O'Neil & Neal Adams Batman of the early seventies even more edgy than Millers 😉 trust me it what Batman Begins really takes it from and not Year 1 as people think.
Quirk and big themes Pre Crisis DC still took it, Shade and Swampy etc never ripped modelled themselves on anything Marvel.
and as for what became Vertigo just post retconn which for most on here was as they were born 🙂 Well as I said the rest is history Marvel has never done anything as daring as Sandman imo.
Marvel is still the McDonalds of comics, It doesn't stop me like everyone "luvvin it", Its just sometimes I want Prime Sirloin and not a big mac.
🙂
-Whirly 🙂
Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
Does Supermans Morality make him less adult, no I would argue it makes him more grown up.Angst and Soap opera Marvel pre crisis took it. But: read the Denny O'Neil & Neal Adams Batman of the early seventies even more edgy than Millers 😉 trust me it what Batman Begins really takes it from and not Year 1 as people think.
Quirk and big themes Pre Crisis DC still took it, Shade and Swampy etc never ripped modelled themselves on anything Marvel.
and as for what became Vertigo just post retconn which for most on here was as they were born 🙂 Well as I said the rest is history Marvel has never done anything as daring as Sandman imo.
Marvel is still the McDonalds of comics, It doesn't stop me like everyone "luvvin it", Its just sometimes I want Prime Sirloin and not a big mac.
🙂
-Whirly 🙂
Marvel is the McDonald's because everyone loves it?
That's a pretty weak rationalization.
DC is more like the MCDonald's because both are iconic, and both are more kid friendly.
🙂
Originally posted by Creshosk
Marvel is the McDonald's because everyone loves it?That's a pretty weak rationalization.
DC is more like the MCDonald's because both are iconic, and both are more kid friendly.
🙂
You don't read much DC do you 😉
Can you say Vertigo?
16 Years Since Sandman 1, 20 years since Watchmen lets look at Marvel 16 years ago. Hmmmm The Dark Surfer returns doesn't have quite the same ring to it 🙂
Originally posted by WhirlysplattOf course I do.
You don't read much DC do you 😉
Originally posted by WhirlysplattLike Disney's touchstone.
Can you say Vertigo?
Touchstone's existence doesn't make "Disney" any less kiddish.
Originally posted by Whirlysplatt:yawns:
16 Years Since Sandman 1, 20 years since Watchmen lets look at Marvel 16 years ago. Hmmmm The Dark Surfer returns doesn't have quite the same ring to it 🙂
🙂
Originally posted by long pig
Actually, quite the opposite.D.C is the Disney of comics, they have the ultra happy goody goody heroes who always saves the day.
Wonder Woman is perfect with no weaknesses, Superman is always happy go lucky ready to save the world, perfect looks, perfect parents, perfect power. It's too kiddy. Too unrealistic.
Happy? are u f*cking kidding me? he's lost his wife (in the vanishing), watched pete ross turn evil, had batman and wonder woman go against him and kidnap his cousin (the only other actual kryptonian he can relate to) and when darkseid kidnapped her he had to go to apokolips to rescue her, and while brainwashed almost killed batman...
The Flash... his wife was attacked by zoom, and she miscarried... and cant have kids anymore...
Batman just found out the league wiped his memory... and he's pissed...
Elongated Man's wife was killed...
In Justice we just saw the Earth explode (although it was a dream), and all the heroes fail...
Yeah... happy... 😛
DC has kid friendly comics, so does Marvel...
Dc has darkness in spades... and for the last couple of years generally better writing...
Sorry for the rant... 😮
Please don't apologise its all true 🙂
Originally posted by pr1983
Happy? are u f*cking kidding me? he's lost his wife (in the vanishing), watched pete ross turn evil, had batman and wonder woman go against him and kidnap his cousin (the only other actual kryptonian he can relate to) and when darkseid kidnapped her he had to go to apokolips to rescue her, and while brainwashed almost killed batman...The Flash... his wife was attacked by zoom, and she miscarried... and cant have kids anymore...
Batman just found out the league wiped his memory... and he's pissed...
Elongated Man's wife was killed...
In Justice we just saw the Earth explode (although it was a dream), and all the heroes fail...
Yeah... happy... 😛
DC has kid friendly comics, so does Marvel...
Dc has darkness in spades... and for the last couple of years generally better writing...
Sorry for the rant... 😮
Making up for lost time, since that's what Marvel has always seemed to have. 😉
Gwen Stacy, Mariko etc.
Can't blame them for copying a winning recipie. 😄
Naw, I'm just playing around on ya. 😛
Seriously I love both Comicverses. 🙂
I would make a DC version of this sig. . . but It's just a little harder to find the sprites I need since there was no DC versus Capcom series.
Originally posted by Creshosk
Making up for lost time, since that's what Marvel has always seemed to have. 😉Gwen Stacy, Mariko etc.
Can't blame them for copying a winning recipie. 😄
Naw, I'm just playing around on ya. 😛
Seriously I love both Comicverses. 🙂
I would make a DC version of this sig. . . but It's just a little harder to find the sprites I need since there was no DC versus Capcom series.
Well lets think Green Arrow Speedy/Drugs etc was before Tony Starks alcoholism 🙂
Saturn Girl and Lightning lads son getting stolen as a baby by darkseid was before Mariko and he got turned into Validus.
Scott Free and Orions switch must have been about the same time as Gwen Stacey.
hmmmmmmmm.
🙂
Originally posted by pr1983Yes, please.
a superman one to get you started...i got gl too, you want it?
Originally posted by WhirlysplattI was kidding. lol
Well lets think Green Arrow Speedy/Drugs etc was before Tony Starks alcoholism 🙂Saturn Girl and Lightning lads son getting stolen as a baby by darkseid was before Mariko and he got turned into Validus.
Scott Free and Orions switch must have been about the same time as Gwen Stacey.
hmmmmmmmm.
🙂
They blew Superman's planet up, he lost his family (well most of them) and was orphaned. . . You really can't top that chronologically.