Originally posted by long pig
Wait wait...I'll separate this in Marvel & D.C1 Raged Hulk 1 Superman
2 Drax 2 Lobo
3 Hercules 3 Wonder Woman
4 Thor 4 Captain Marvel
5 Juggernaut
6 Namor :in water:
7 Abomination
8 Spike Thing
9 Ultimate CollosuTitanus<--- I dunno, one page doesn't show much, but....he could be second.
this looks good to me
Originally posted by Hulking Hurler
How enraged is the Hulk? Depending on the level of his anger, he could conceivably bench everything these lesser beings could with a pinky, or he could be blown out of the water by these other powerhouses. Also, Titanus is something of a wild card, due to the fact that there is almost nil information on him, save that he can KO Savage Hulk rather easily. Because of these variables, the list can wildly vary, depending on Hulk's condition and on Titanus' actual strength. This is my list w/o mercurial characters, assuming that they get all their standard equipment, without any items such as the Power Gem for Drax and the Atlas Gauntlets for Wonder Woman:1. Drax the Destroyer w/o Power Gem-Drax is by far the physical superior of these; he can amp his strength via cosmic power ala Hulk, shattering the ceiling of physical power, not to mention he starts way above the floor of his "peers" already; by sheer strength, he is able to match many a cosmic powerhouse
2. Classic Juggernaut-Juggernaut is a true powerhouse, and even though his greatest attribute is his durability and sheer indomitably, he has also demonstrated, on occasion, sheer brute force to rival most everybody on this list, besting Hulk, Thing, Thor, and most every hero that relies on physicality has been defeated by him
3. Superman w/o Sundip- Superman has demonstrated incalculable power before, but while his strong suit, in general, is the might that his bio-aura grants him, in a sheer contest of strength, he is edged out the two people above him in this contest when they match muscle and sinew
4. Immortal Hercules- while Hercules has some low showings, Marvel seems to have accorded the labors of his counterpart from myth to Hercules also; Hercules has also demonstrated the ability to at least match the majority of the tanks that roam Marvel Earth, and while the best he ever did against Thor was draw, in a contest of pure strength, I would put Immortal Hercules over regular Thor
5. Thor w/ Mjolnir, w/o any other magical enhancement via artifact- while Thor primarily prefers aggressive negotiation, the greatest weapon at his disposal is his lineage as the Odinson; while he can likely take a few of the people above him if he exploits his powers to their fullest, lacking any sort of positive modifier, his physical force is not up to snuff with some of the other contenders
6. Lobo- Lobo has, on occasion, taken down Superman, despite the Man of Steel's numerous advantages over him, including, IMO, the strength advantage; however, his victories seem to be more due to his unique powerset, his sheer unpredictability, and the fact that his skill in H2H combat dwarfs that of Superman; overall, a lot of his ability seems to be due to his intelligence, his fighting skill, and his plethora of superpowers and so, he can't match somebody who is in the same league as him, yet possesses only brute strength
7. Wonder Woman w/o magical enhancement via artifact- Wonder Woman has displayed the ability to take down at least Superman, and most likely Hercules too; but, her victory over Superman is tainted by one of her strengths being one of his weaknesses, and her victory over Hercules is over a DCU version, who, while most likely comparably, might belong in an entirely different tier of power; while she has demonstrated strength second only to Superman in the JLA, and has lifted in excess of millions of tons, most of her strength stems from her magic, and much of her force stems from her skill
8. Captain Marvel w/o major magical aid from Shazam- Captain Marvel is considered by some merely a magical Superman, but the Greek Gods have stated on occasion that Wonder Woman's powers are greater than his own, and Superman has bested him in fair fights before
9. Namor w/in water for a significant amount of time- while Namor has some great showings while within water for some time, some of his victories are, once again, due to his skill advantage, his speed advantage in water, and the fact that the ocean greatly enhances his durability and regeneration, so that even the strongest of comic book characters can't stand against him in his native element
10. Abomination- Abomination has been able to hang with some of the most powerful heroes in comicdom, he is simply dwarfed by some of these other competitors
11. Spiked Thing- while we did not see much of this buffed-up Thing, he seemed impressive, easily defeating Grey Hulk; however, Thing has been shown to be able to fight, if not for very long, Savage Hulk, even though his strength is Lilliputian in comparison to the Hulk's, with the reasoning behind this being that he is a better fighter, and that his exterior is just that hard, so it is not that big of a stretch to say that Spiked Thing can defeat Grey Hulk; overall, he didn't seem very impressive when compared to the other people on this list
12. Ultimate Colossus- Ultimate Colossus has demonstrated amazing power, but, due to his nature as a populant of the Ultimate Universe, he is severely outclassed here; with many high showings, he should be higher, but, in all likelihood, he will most likely be destroyed according to his official stats, due to the fact that many of his high showing have been equalled, if not outright surpassed, by the majority of his competition
Good post but i don't agree with alot of it. Im not going to try and persuade you guys differently, because I know whats going to happen. I'm sick of pissing everyone off with my so called 'wacky' ideas. All i can say is that Special Relativity was seen a 'wacky' idea. I think Albert Einstien had the last laugh in the end.
By the way this is my list but just ignore it if you want:
1. Drax the Destreoyer + Power Gem
2. Superman
3. Peak Hulk (E.G. when he's impressive and he's not fighting his average Fights)
4. Lobo
5.Wonder Woman
6.Immortal Herc
7.Thor
8. Captain Marvel
9.Namor
10.Classic Juggernaught
11.Ultimate Colossus
12.Abomination
13.Spiky Thing
Sorry Guys, but you suck 🙂 😄. Well some of the time anyway. 😉
Originally posted by olympianShazam has also been portrayed as significantly weaker than Supes on many occasions. In DC Heros, CM's AP in Strength nor speed is anywhere near Superman's level, nor is Wonder Womans. According to it, Superman can EASILY lift 25 trillion tons without even 'performing a feat' which can increase your stats signicantly.. With a feat, he could catapault himself into 100's of trillions or more fairly easily and much farther beyond.
Considering Hulk does use his rage here to high levels he most likely takes this one. Otherwise he wouldnt be one of the top.Hulking Lurker post was good. But there are things that i respectfully dont agree. Lets see :
"Drax the Destroyer w/o Power Gem-Drax is by far the physical superior of these; he can amp his strength via cosmic power ala Hulk, shattering the ceiling of physical power, not to mention he starts way above the floor of his "peers" already; by sheer strength, he is able to match many a cosmic powerhouse"
Kind of agree. If Drax is using the gem he takes this. If not...honestly i cant tell. Does he ever looked different with or without it? I mean he tecnically should, right. The gem is a boost after all.
"Classic Juggernaut-Juggernaut is a true powerhouse, and even though his greatest attribute is his durability and sheer indomitably, he has also demonstrated, on occasion, sheer brute force to rival most everybody on this list, besting Hulk, Thing, Thor, and most every hero that relies on physicality has been defeated by him"
Classic Juggernaut at regular levels its at the top because we can see it by the fights he had. However he didnt displayed any lifting feats. And about besting the ones you meantioned. Nope, he stalemate all those and defeated Hulk once when he was Merged.
( He also trashed Thor on another occasion but he was amped.)
"Superman w/o Sundip- Superman has demonstrated incalculable power before, but while his strong suit, in general, is the might that his bio-aura grants him, in a sheer contest of strength, he is edged out the two people above him in this contest when they match muscle and sinew"
Have to agree that the aura gives him an edge. He has a moon feat but not planetary without boosts. ( the earth one with help and the Spectre showed the heroes failing the deeds).
"Immortal Hercules- while Hercules has some low showings, Marvel seems to have accorded the labors of his counterpart from myth to Hercules also; Hercules has also demonstrated the ability to at least match the majority of the tanks that roam Marvel Earth, and while the best he ever did against Thor was draw, in a contest of pure strength, I would put Immortal Hercules over regular Thor"
Immortal Hercules has few low showings. All the ones of the list have them for that matter. Drax less tho. He was created to fight Thanos after all.
About this i give him an edge over Superman. In this case in raw strenght -only-.
The Myths are cannon in comics. Wich means he either held the earth or the heavens. Both in DC and Marvel. The earth feat seems the one that has shown in flasbacks and statements at both companies. Superman without a sundip boost its a moon mover but not a planet one.
"Thor w/ Mjolnir, w/o any other magical enhancement via artifact- while Thor primarily prefers aggressive negotiation, the greatest weapon at his disposal is his lineage as the Odinson; while he can likely take a few of the people above him if he exploits his powers to their fullest, lacking any sort of positive modifier, his physical force is not up to snuff with some of the other contenders"
Up there with Hercules. and in true without boosts he has plenetary feats also. Either a notch below Herk or equal (practically all showings have them as equal). Again any edge he may have its in raw strenght only. Figthing skills its another matter, that doesnt aplly here.
"Lobo- Lobo has, on occasion, taken down Superman, despite the Man of Steel's numerous advantages over him, including, IMO, the strength advantage; however, his victories seem to be more due to his unique powerset, his sheer unpredictability, and the fact that his skill in H2H combat dwarfs that of Superman; overall, a lot of his ability seems to be due to his intelligence, his fighting skill, and his plethora of superpowers and so, he can't match somebody who is in the same league as him, yet possesses only brute strength"
Not much to say. If he is the one during his comic in the 90`s, he was stronger than Superman. Superior figthing skills and other mad over the top abilities. How is he in the current version? More, the same or less powerful.
"Wonder Woman w/o magical enhancement via artifact- Wonder Woman has displayed the ability to take down at least Superman, and most likely Hercules too; but, her victory over Superman is tainted by one of her strengths being one of his weaknesses, and her victory over Hercules is over a DCU version, who, while most likely comparably, might belong in an entirely different tier of power; while she has demonstrated strength second only to Superman in the JLA, and has lifted in excess of millions of tons, most of her strength stems from her magic, and much of her force stems from her skill"
Agree and dont agree. She only won against the Hercules of her universe pre crisis. And also lost in return. I dont know if there wer more fights but based on the ones i know they wer tied. Hercules pre crisis was also stated to be as strong as Superman before in his action comics appearances. Same with cap Marvel and Atlas. Post crisis her and Hercules never fought. Both claimed to be stronger. I give the edge over Hercules for the fact he has more feats on a higher level. Especially plenetary ones.
Wonder Woman also is in my opinion very slighty behind Superman. The two fights that she won over skill, had her in the more physical disavantage. Like the last fight she had in # 219. Overall skills shes the best of this group for sure.
"Captain Marvel w/o major magical aid from Shazam- Captain Marvel is considered by some merely a magical Superman, but the Greek Gods have stated on occasion that Wonder Woman's powers are greater than his own, and Superman has bested him in fair fights before"
Dont agree. Superman and Marvel have been stated as equals more than once. In fact he has better feat comparations than Diana does against kal. Stalemated him twice in two armwrestlings, knocked him out twice post crisis and had the physical advantage in Superman/Batman #3. Mind you im not selling Wonder Woman short. She, Hercules, Supes and Marvel as well as Thor are all rougly in the same class. But some have a slight different spot in that tier.
Ill make the list after, but wanted to give my opinion about those.
Its that some kind of handbook or guide?
He was never considered weaker than Superman in the comics post crisis.
And Pre crisis he actually had wins and loses against kal.
What makes me think its a guide of some sort and not comics its this part:
"CM's AP in Strength nor speed is anywhere near Superman's level, nor is Wonder Womans"
Wich is totaly wrong. Anywhere near in the level of Superman would mean none of the two is in the same class he is. And they are. How about examples? Wonder Woman in countdown to infinite crisis (a comic) was rated as being in the same class of strenght of Supes.
And Marvel was always called its equal, even by Superman itself. (several comics, two of them in his own titles).
Originally posted by olympianBut Superman beat up Wonderwoman in a recent JLA, right after he beat up Batman. Wonder Woman lost to one of the weak Gods on Apocalypse in Batman/Superman, while Supes served Big Daddy Darkseid himself and took him the source wall and slammed him into it. lol. Anyways, DC Heros is DC's Tabletop RPG, which IS set post-crisis.
Its that some kind of handbook or guide?He was never considered weaker than Superman in the comics post crisis.
And Pre crisis he actually had wins and loses against kal.
What makes me think its a guide of some sort and not comics its this part:
"CM's AP in Strength nor speed is anywhere near Superman's level, nor is Wonder Womans"
Wich is totaly wrong. Anywhere near in the level of Superman would mean none of the two is in the same class he is. How about examples? Wonder Woman in cuntdown to infinite crisis ( a comic) was rated as being in the same class of strenght of Supes.
And Marvel was always called its equal, even by Superan itself. ( several comics).
"Anyways, DC Heros is DC's Tabletop RPG, which IS set post-crisis."
Its the same thing as the Marvel handbooks. Its not comics and has innacurances in comparation with them. Wonder Woman for example has two wins against Superman post crisis.
"But Superman beat up Wonderwoman in a recent JLA, right after he beat up Batman"
When? Dont you mean Wonder Woman # 219 ? She is sligthy below but it doesnt translate being on a level down or more. Thats why she was able to hurt him and actually - winning - the figth.
"Superman, while Supes served Big Daddy Darkseid himself"
Darkseid post crisis its nothing more than a joke. He lost to Superman already like three times in continuity, and was served by Orion. He cant get a single win.
Originally posted by olympianHe's been beaten by Superman only that many times since OWAW, after Supes' sundip.. he stepped up to a whole new level. Supes never beat him before that. And Orion is another god, his own son in fact. I don't remember Orion defeating him, outside of ELSEWORLD comics, but I do recall Darkseid defeating pretty anyone ever that has stepped to him in less than 5 moves even whole teams..., outside of Superman, and I guess Orion too.
"Anyways, DC Heros is DC's Tabletop RPG, which IS set post-crisis."Its the same thing as the Marvel handbooks. Its not comics and has innacurances in comparation with them. Wonder Woman for example has two wins against Superman post crisis.
"But Superman beat up Wonderwoman in a recent JLA, right after he beat up Batman"
When? Dont you mean Wonder Woman # 219 ? She is sligthy below but it doesnt translate being on a level down or more. Thats why she was able to hurt him and actually - winning - the figth.
"Superman, while Supes served Big Daddy Darkseid himself"
Darkseid post crisis its nothing more than a joke. He lost to Superman already like three times in continuity, and was served by Orion. He cant get a single win.
"He's been beaten by Superman only that many times since OWAW, after Supes' sundip"
And had troubles against Byrne Superman (weakest version ever) where in Pre Crisis with two punches would put him into a coma or kill him.
"And Orion is another god, his own son in fact"
And? He never had it easy against Pre Crisis Darkseid. Not even against Kalibak and post crisis Orin has knocked him out with one shot.
"I don't remember Orion defeating him"
Straight up fight. It was actually the best fight Darkseid put up post crisis, he looked competent. But still lost. Simonson run, Orion # 5.
"but I do recall Darkseid defeating pretty anyone ever that has stepped to him in less than 5 moves even whole teams"
That would be either Pre Crisis or Elseworlds?
Originally posted by K3VIL
Oh yeah, you are right.ROTFL
Drax with his low intelligence stalemated Warrior Madness Thor, and Drax was in possess of the Power Gem.The correct list is:
1.Juggernaut, Hulk and Immortal Hercules
2.Drax
3.Lobo/Supes/Thor same range.
4.Wonder Woman
5.Captain Marvel
6.Namor
7.Ultimate Colossus and Spikey Thing
8.Abomination1.Juggernaut and Hulk are basically the two unstoppable forces on Marvel Earth, Juggy's magic grants him incalculable strenght, so is for Hulk's rage, this puts them on top.
Tough Immortal Hercules supported the Eart Weight, without much effort, his strenght is on an incalculable range, so he can match the two above with ease.
2.Drax was able to stalemate W.M. Thor, tapping into the Power Gem without using his full power, so he's above the Thunder God, Lobo and Supes, especially cause if he's in this contest with his normal intelligence, he'll best them and probably reach the rankings of Juggy, Herc and Hulk.
3.Lobo has bested Supes more than once, while Kal El and Thor both have impressive feats of strenght, Lobo was able to beat Supes cause he's a more ruthless fighter, brutal, expert and he has the killer instinct thing, but in a pure strenght contest, those 3 are on the same league.
4.Wonder Woman has recently acquired strenght above that of CM, so she's above Billy, not by far, but she's here.
5.Captain Marvel, magical superman, was able to give major troubles to Supes before, tough he's not his equal, he's still hella strong, but not he's the guys above.
6.Namor, Avenging Son has showed great physical strenght, tough in a hth fight he'll show his own as usual with the guys above, he's not on the same league.
7.UC and ST showed great physical strenght but they aren't on the Powerhouse ranking, they are mid/low level strong guys, tough they can do their job very well, their only fault is the top guys outclass them by far.
8.Abomination has a considerable strenght, tough he's probably just few steps under UC and ST, he'll give them a fight, but then fall, and certainly he's not enough for those above UC and ST.
1. Thor was in Warrior Madness Form. He doen't just fly into a berserker rage, he actually achieve a magical state that enhances his abilities. Do you think a regular Thor could stalemate Thanos?
2. I excluded Hulk, because his strength varies according to rage.
3. Sure, Juggernaut has demonstrated strength on par with the greatest of terrestial superheroes, and while he has never shown a limit to his strength, he has not demonstrated strength that puts him above everybody else, IMO. While absence of proof does not necessarily equate to proof absence, the reverse is not necessarily true either.
4. Immortal Hercules lifted the weight of Uranus, the sky, with leverage. He did not take the entire weight of Gaia onto his shoulders, and while the weight of the air on Earth is an inconeivable amount, it is a showing that has been matched before.
5. I agree about you with Drax, save for reaching the top three.
6. That's basically what I said about Lobo, and, while Thor does gain strength from Mjolnir, I don't think he can match the two superheroes above him without additional enhancement.
7. I did put Wonder Woman above Captain Marvel.
8. That's what I said, that while he given fights to Superman before, he is not his equal physically.
9. Yes, I said that much of his advantage in fights comes from the water itself, not from his strength boost while within his natural enviorment.
10. I said that Spiked Thing, while impressive, did not necessarily have to be much stronger, as Thing's greatest attributes against other powerhouses are his durability and his greater skill than mindless brutes.
11. I put Ultimate Colossus last because, while he has high showings, his stats do not support them, at all.
12. Would you really put Ultimate Colossus above Abomination? Sure, Colossus has shown strength unparalleled in his universe, but this is the mainstream 616, and here, he is completely outclassed, even by Abomination,.
Originally posted by olympian
Considering Hulk does use his rage here to high levels he most likely takes this one. Otherwise he wouldnt be one of the top.Hulking Lurker post was good. But there are things that i respectfully dont agree. Lets see :
"Drax the Destroyer w/o Power Gem-Drax is by far the physical superior of these; he can amp his strength via cosmic power ala Hulk, shattering the ceiling of physical power, not to mention he starts way above the floor of his "peers" already; by sheer strength, he is able to match many a cosmic powerhouse"
Kind of agree. If Drax is using the gem he takes this. If not...honestly i cant tell. Does he ever looked different with or without it? I mean he tecnically should, right. The gem is a boost after all.
"Classic Juggernaut-Juggernaut is a true powerhouse, and even though his greatest attribute is his durability and sheer indomitably, he has also demonstrated, on occasion, sheer brute force to rival most everybody on this list, besting Hulk, Thing, Thor, and most every hero that relies on physicality has been defeated by him"
Classic Juggernaut at regular levels its at the top because we can see it by the fights he had. However he didnt displayed any lifting feats. And about besting the ones you meantioned. Nope, he stalemate all those and defeated Hulk once when he was Merged.
( He also trashed Thor on another occasion but he was amped.)
"Superman w/o Sundip- Superman has demonstrated incalculable power before, but while his strong suit, in general, is the might that his bio-aura grants him, in a sheer contest of strength, he is edged out the two people above him in this contest when they match muscle and sinew"
Have to agree that the aura gives him an edge. He has a moon feat but not planetary without boosts. ( the earth one with help and the Spectre showed the heroes failing the deeds).
"Immortal Hercules- while Hercules has some low showings, Marvel seems to have accorded the labors of his counterpart from myth to Hercules also; Hercules has also demonstrated the ability to at least match the majority of the tanks that roam Marvel Earth, and while the best he ever did against Thor was draw, in a contest of pure strength, I would put Immortal Hercules over regular Thor"
Immortal Hercules has few low showings. All the ones of the list have them for that matter. Drax less tho. He was created to fight Thanos after all.
About this i give him an edge over Superman. In this case in raw strenght -only-.
The Myths are cannon in comics. Wich means he either held the earth or the heavens. Both in DC and Marvel. The earth feat seems the one that has shown in flasbacks and statements at both companies. Superman without a sundip boost its a moon mover but not a planet one.
"Thor w/ Mjolnir, w/o any other magical enhancement via artifact- while Thor primarily prefers aggressive negotiation, the greatest weapon at his disposal is his lineage as the Odinson; while he can likely take a few of the people above him if he exploits his powers to their fullest, lacking any sort of positive modifier, his physical force is not up to snuff with some of the other contenders"
Up there with Hercules. and in true without boosts he has plenetary feats also. Either a notch below Herk or equal (practically all showings have them as equal). Again any edge he may have its in raw strenght only. Figthing skills its another matter, that doesnt aplly here.
"Lobo- Lobo has, on occasion, taken down Superman, despite the Man of Steel's numerous advantages over him, including, IMO, the strength advantage; however, his victories seem to be more due to his unique powerset, his sheer unpredictability, and the fact that his skill in H2H combat dwarfs that of Superman; overall, a lot of his ability seems to be due to his intelligence, his fighting skill, and his plethora of superpowers and so, he can't match somebody who is in the same league as him, yet possesses only brute strength"
Not much to say. If he is the one during his comic in the 90`s, he was stronger than Superman. Superior figthing skills and other mad over the top abilities. How is he in the current version? More, the same or less powerful.
"Wonder Woman w/o magical enhancement via artifact- Wonder Woman has displayed the ability to take down at least Superman, and most likely Hercules too; but, her victory over Superman is tainted by one of her strengths being one of his weaknesses, and her victory over Hercules is over a DCU version, who, while most likely comparably, might belong in an entirely different tier of power; while she has demonstrated strength second only to Superman in the JLA, and has lifted in excess of millions of tons, most of her strength stems from her magic, and much of her force stems from her skill"
Agree and dont agree. She only won against the Hercules of her universe pre crisis. And also lost in return. I dont know if there wer more fights but based on the ones i know they wer tied. Hercules pre crisis was also stated to be as strong as Superman before in his action comics appearances. Same with cap Marvel and Atlas. Post crisis her and Hercules never fought. Both claimed to be stronger. I give the edge over Hercules for the fact he has more feats on a higher level. Especially plenetary ones.
Wonder Woman also is in my opinion very slighty behind Superman. The two fights that she won over skill, had her in the more physical disavantage. Like the last fight she had in # 219. Overall skills shes the best of this group for sure.
"Captain Marvel w/o major magical aid from Shazam- Captain Marvel is considered by some merely a magical Superman, but the Greek Gods have stated on occasion that Wonder Woman's powers are greater than his own, and Superman has bested him in fair fights before"
Dont agree. Superman and Marvel have been stated as equals more than once. In fact he has better feat comparations than Diana does against kal. Stalemated him twice in two armwrestlings, knocked him out twice post crisis and had the physical advantage in Superman/Batman #3. Mind you im not selling Wonder Woman short. She, Hercules, Supes and Marvel as well as Thor are all rougly in the same class. But some have a slight different spot in that tier.
Ill make the list after, but wanted to give my opinion about those.
1. Since you didn't seem to really attack my decision there, I don't think there is anything to respond to.
2. While there is no real proof in his appearances, for him to harm many of his opponents, Thor mostly, his strength would have to be way up there. Like Hulk, he has never demonstrated a limit, and while the Gem of Cyttorak most likely does not grant infinite strength, I think it's safe to assume that the strength is only a close second to the durability.
3. According to the myths, Hercules held up Uranus, and possibly Hemera and Aether, but certainly not Gaia. While holding up the heavens is an impressive feat, Thor has lifted the trunk of Niddhogg according to myth, and he is supposedly heavier then Yggsadril, which is the cosmos. While that feat is not canonical, I feel it illustrates the ancient's mthod of viewing feats of strength, that is, illogically.
4. Thor has planetary feats, yes, but much of his strength is from Mjolnir, and much of his damage stems from Mjolnir too, and while he has stalemated Hercules in contests of strength, I feel that Hercules' Olympian lineage might just grant him in edge in sheer weight-lifting.
5. By Lobo, I mean current. He seems to be far weaker than his older runs, as the writer himself professed hatred for the character, and stated that he would ruin Lobo. And yes, while his older runs might have him above Superman in most things, this newer run has him, by far, less powerful.
6. I put Wonder Woman below those two, so I didn't really see the problem, and yes, IMO, she only beats Superman because of skill and magic.
7. Yes, but Marvel has been stated to be below Wonder Woman, who is considered 2nd strongest, after Superman. Besides, he is not Superman's real equal, as his wins mostly stem from, IMO, his magical boons.
Don't add the power Gem people.
Power Gem automatically means infinite strength, anyone with it has limitess strength.
5. By Lobo, I mean current. He seems to be far weaker than his older runs, as the writer himself professed hatred for the character, and stated that he would ruin Lobo. And yes, while his older runs might have him above Superman in most things, this newer run has him, by far, less powerful.
"According to the myths, Hercules held up Uranus, and possibly Hemera and Aether, but certainly not Gaia. While holding up the heavens is an impressive feat, Thor has lifted the trunk of Niddhogg according to myth, and he is supposedly heavier then Yggsadril, which is the cosmos. While that feat is not canonical, I feel it illustrates the ancient's mthod of viewing feats of strength, that is, illogically"
Helding the Uranos and helding Gaea aka the earth are of ancient Greek origin. Both versions exist. And both arent that different in nature. The two wer primordial cosmic/abstract beings. They are illogical, but then again all the feats we are talking about here, are as well.
Not to mention, both at Marvel and DC the Earth feat has been referenced before. Even we go by the Uranos feat wich is helding the whole weight of a primordial cosmic being its still above what Superman for example is able to pul off with no power ups on a regular basis. He did tried lifting Spectre with help, and failed.
"Thor has planetary feats, yes, but much of his strength is from Mjolnir, and much of his damage stems from Mjolnir too, and while he has stalemated Hercules in contests of strength, I feel that Hercules' Olympian lineage might just grant him in edge in sheer weight-lifting."
I feel that Hercules in raw strenght its a notch above. However its not by the lineage. At Marvel, Thors mother its Gaea. Both he and Herakles never showed -not- to be able to lift something they encountered. And yes both have planetery feats. I feel if we go by average theyr equal according what marvel always showed.
And Thor doesnt need Mjolnir for strenght per se. As an example ill trow the armwrestling match he and Hercules had and that after destroying the mountain plaeateu (wer they wer doing the match) it was stated as generatting enought pressure to knock a planet off its orbit. With no weapons at play.
He also accomplished the Midgard Serpent feat without it and in the myth he lifted one of the "cats" paws the same way. ( altho in myth there was never given any limit to the Serpents size).
"By Lobo, I mean current. He seems to be far weaker than his older runs, as the writer himself professed hatred for the character, and stated that he would ruin Lobo. And yes, while his older runs might have him above Superman in most things, this newer run has him, by far, less powerful"
Got it. Wich is a shame because it really gets him below in the list.
"I put Wonder Woman below those two, so I didn't really see the problem, and yes, IMO, she only beats Superman because of skill and magic."
I didnt particullary disagreed. It was more with you getting Captain Marvel below, when i see him more on par with the other two than her.
"Yes, but Marvel has been stated to be below Wonder Woman, who is considered 2nd strongest, after Superman. Besides, he is not Superman's real equal, as his wins mostly stem from, IMO, his magical boons."
I guess i wont agree with this one. Wonder Woman its a particular case of the offices saying she is second to only Superman, and in one case like Byrne actually stating it in a comic. However failing all the time to show it. Marvel has stalemates with Superman. Without using any magic attack (or trick like most would call) he has hurt Superman and made him bleed without being hurt in return. Hes been called and stated as equal more times and actually being showed with his track record against Superman and the like. (im also thinking about the Nero Underworld fight where he with one arm held its own against the JLA and was able to toss them aside). He has no particullary low showings as Diana have as well.
In all there is alot i agree with. And others i disagree. And if you are new to the boards, welcome!
"Sure, Juggernaut has demonstrated strength and while he has never shown a limit to his strength,"
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Oh my god !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Where did this madness originate from. Its spreading ..... Very quickly. Everyone seems to be using this thing about Juggernaut never showing his limits.
What about not been able to get out of a mere mountain for an entire year ????????????????
I think thats illustrates his limits clearly.
'But he didn't know how strong he was'
Bollocks. If he didn't know how strong he was he would have sat on his arse until the end of the world.
What about the time it took him about a week to get out of the foundations of a building ?
Originally posted by yahman
"Sure, Juggernaut has demonstrated strength and while he has never shown a limit to his strength,"AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Oh my god !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Where did this madness originate from. Its spreading ..... Very quickly. Everyone seems to be using this thing about Juggernaut never showing his limits.
What about not been able to get out of a mere mountain for an entire year ????????????????
I think thats illustrates his limits clearly.
'But he didn't know how strong he was'
Bollocks. If he didn't know how strong he was he would have sat on his arse until the end of the world.
What about the time it took him about a week to get out of the foundations of a building ?
When did you forget that his character wasn't totally developed while underneath the rocks?
He wasn't even in the 20 ton range when he first appeared.
I've seen Jug knock through buildings the size of the empire state, and jump out of solid blocks of steel.
In the past 20 years, after being fully developed, he hasn't shown a limit.
Get it? Good.
If we go by your logic, Thing would only be able to lift 4 tons, like he did in the beginning.
Originally posted by yahman
"Sure, Juggernaut has demonstrated strength and while he has never shown a limit to his strength,"AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Oh my god !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Where did this madness originate from. Its spreading ..... Very quickly. Everyone seems to be using this thing about Juggernaut never showing his limits.
What about not been able to get out of a mere mountain for an entire year ????????????????
I think thats illustrates his limits clearly.
'But he didn't know how strong he was'
Bollocks. If he didn't know how strong he was he would have sat on his arse until the end of the world.
What about the time it took him about a week to get out of the foundations of a building ?
First of all, those quotes are not mine. Second, that doesn't show any real limit to strength. Juggernaut is not famed for his speed or intelligence; perhaps he was both too dumb to think of shattering the mountain and too slow to just pulp the rock on top of him. Besides, do you really think Juggernaut would stand a chance against everybody he's damaged is his strength was as low as you seem to claim it is? Just because his durability is greater than most non-cosmics does not mean that his strength isn't either.
Originally posted by Hulking Hurler
First of all, that second quote is not mine. Second, that doesn't show any real limit to strength. Juggernaut is not famed for his speed or intelligence; perhaps he was both too dumb to think of shattering the mountain and too slow to just pulp the rock on top of him. Besides, do you really think Juggernaut would stand a chance against everybody he's damaged is his strength was as low as you seem to claim it is? Just because his durability is greater than most non-cosmics does not mean that his strength isn't either.
Originally posted by long pig
Would it not make sense that Cyttorak would make his strength equal to his durability?