Originally posted by Grand Moff Gav
The Queen does have the power to order parliment on certain issues foreign policy being one of them.Sice when did people have a choice in this world?
She does...but she can't use it against popular belief...that's just the way it is....
The second the fiorst person came onto this earth....
Originally posted by Britannia
Do you remember a certain discussion on the EU?"What is so special about your country anyway??!"
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Why do you not see the Empire as such a great thing? You said yourself that you want a United world one day, so why not use the British Empire as a means to do so?
There is nothing special abpoot your country that would make it fair for you to get a EU Payback......and you are not as special that the EU needs you....but I lie the Country.......that quote is quite out of context and you know it....
The British Epire was based on Opression not Working together in Peace ...I want a United World that is united because it want to...not because the Queen would send Troops if it was otherwise.....
Originally posted by Grand Moff Gav
If America went to war with GB it would be a war with the Commonwealth and the European Union,America couldnt win.
I think you are wrong there.....I'd love to see the EU as stronger as the US...but first of all, why should the EU get involved into that fight...that would be just stupid...and secondly probably the US would crush us anyways....
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Because the British Empire was a preferential trading bloc that happily ignored any human cost involved in making money in connivance with local landowners.NOT a blueprint for world order, and thoroughly impossible to maintain in a modern world.
Exactly my point....
Originally posted by Grand Moff Gav
There British Empire wasn't about unifying the world it was about money and conquest.
I agree... but we wanted the world and we did it through the means of money and conquest. The core principal of the Empire was to spread a fraternity of freedom, enterprise and decency throughout the far flung corners of the globe... Conquest was simply the way in which to spread this..
Originally posted by Ushgarak
The average British man or woman saw bugger all from the Empire.The whole thing was money; you have to put traditional notions of 'Empire' far from your mind; it could not have been less like, say, the Roman model.
WHAT?! From Empire came trade, from trade came wealth, from wealth came a greatly increased standard of living! A National Health Service!
Originally posted by Bardock42
I think you are wrong there.....I'd love to see the EU as stronger as the US...but first of all, why should the EU get involved into that fight...that would be just stupid...and secondly probably the US would crush us anyways....
The EU would get involved an attack on the UK would be an attack on Brussels and lets face it France wouldnt pass up a chance to attack the US plus remember that all the seperate EU countries have ties with other countries that would have to join.Perhaps even N.Korea and China would jump in.....well maby not china
Originally posted by Bardock42
She does...but she can't use it against popular belief...that's just the way it is....The second the fiorst person came onto this earth....
There is nothing special abpoot your country that would make it fair for you to get a EU Payback......and you are not as special that the EU needs you....but I lie the Country.......that quote is quite out of context and you know it....
The British Epire was based on Opression not Working together in Peace ...I want a United World that is united because it want to...not because the Queen would send Troops if it was otherwise.....
I think you are wrong there.....I'd love to see the EU as stronger as the US...but first of all, why should the EU get involved into that fight...that would be just stupid...and secondly probably the US would crush us anyways....
Exactly my point....
The British Empire wasn't abpout oppresion, quite the opposite! Sure, we did, admitedly, have slavery in the ealry years.. but that was abolished and the Empire lived on- freedom prospered, lives improved, tyrants crushed.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
The average British man or woman saw bugger all from the Empire.The whole thing was money; you have to put traditional notions of 'Empire' far from your mind; it could not have been less like, say, the Roman model.
The Roman Empire was all about the Rich the plebs got little and most the Emperors where a bit mad.
However I prefer a United Europe a new Brithish Empire would be good though.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
The National Health Service owes exactly 0% to the Empire which was bankrupt at the time of formation- and also dyting, soon to be replaced.During the days of the Empire, the wealth went to those who made it, NOT to the average Brit.
Don't be ridiculous. Without the British Empire, we'd not have an NHS- you must understand the links between the wealth generated and the good it did to the country. The average Briton DID benefit- before the empire, Britain was in a deplorable state... after Empire, the most wealthy nation in the world.... Coinsidence? I think not.
Originally posted by Britannia
Don't be ridiculous. Without the British Empire, we'd not have an NHS- you must understand the links between the wealth generated and the good it did to the country. The average Briton DID benefit- before the empire, Britain was in a deplorable state... after Empire, the most wealthy nation in the world.... Coinsidence? I think not.
Repeat- the Empire was dead at the time of the formation of the NHS. The money from the NHS came a. from an American loan negotiated by Keynes and b. tyhe UK's own intenral resources in the post-war period.
All the money from the Empire by then was gone- it was a dying ideal, 'the lead weight around our necks', as one commentator put it.
The NHS owes the Empire NOTHING. It was a POST Imperial concept.
Yes, Britain was the wealthiest nation in the world in the days of Empire. But its people were not. Its people were no better off than, say, the French or Germans or Americans.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
The British Empire wasn't about oppression? Taking whole continents from indigenous peoples isn't oppression...? Okay...If the EU and the US went to war the winner would be... China - because they'd likely stay out of the war.
No, it's not. That's conquest. Oppresion is the act of taking people's freedoms. We GAVE people their freedoms.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
The British Empire wasn't about oppression? Taking whole continents from indigenous peoples isn't oppression...? Okay...If the EU and the US went to war the winner would be... China - because they'd likely stay out of the war.
That's the point. The British Empire had a tiny army that was not capable of 'taking' continents as you describe.
The whole operation was done with the CONNIVANCE of indigenous peoples. We helped them oppress themselves, as it were.
Like I say, it was about money, not military- it could never have been military.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Repeat- the Empire was dead at the time of the formation of the NHS. The money from the NHS came a. from an American loan negotiated by Keynes and b. tyhe UK's own intenral resources in the post-war period.All the money from the Empire by then was gone- it was a dying ideal, 'the lead weight around our necks', as one commentator put it.
The NHS owes the Empire NOTHING. It was a POST Imperial concept.
Yes, Britain was the wealthiest nation in the world in the days of Empire. But its people were not. Its people were no better off than, say, the French or Germans or Americans.
Business thrived in Britain thus people thrived. The money generated through private initiative and enterprise as a result of the Empire DID help every day Britons.
I stand corrected on the matter of the NHS.
Originally posted by Grand Moff Gav
The EU would get involved an attack on the UK would be an attack on Brussels and lets face it France wouldnt pass up a chance to attack the US plus remember that all the seperate EU countries have ties with other countries that would have to join.Perhaps even N.Korea and China would jump in.....well maby not china
But would we want that?
Originally posted by Britannia
The British Empire wasn't abpout oppresion, quite the opposite! Sure, we did, admitedly, have slavery in the ealry years.. but that was abolished and the Empire lived on- freedom prospered, lives improved, tyrants crushed.
Oh really...I guess that's why all the Countries demanded anfd fought for their Freedom...best and most known example India?..... yea...that must have been it...my bad....
Originally posted by Grand Moff Gav
The Roman Empire was all about the Rich the plebs got little and most the Emperors where a bit mad.However I prefer a United Europe a new Brithish Empire would be good though.
Holy shit dude...you don't know your Roman History well...the Plebs was never opressed they ****ed up Room with their proletarian Ideologies....
Originally posted by Britannia
Don't be ridiculous. Without the British Empire, we'd not have an NHS- you must understand the links between the wealth generated and the good it did to the country. The average Briton DID benefit- before the empire, Britain was in a deplorable state... after Empire, the most wealthy nation in the world.... Coinsidence? I think not.
We didn't have an Empire and we had one of the first Health Care and Retirenment systems...