Despite the horrendous allegations, I'm not some sort of "Sheev-hater". I merely wish to shine orbs of truth on the conundrum his unlimited powahh has caused.
Some ask the question of my genuine motives. They sincerely don’t, or can’t, see the value in exposing pretty lies and ugly truths. And they want to know, “Where’s the Benefit?” One such topic of discussion; which often elicits this bristled reaction, is an honest discussion about Sheev and where stands comparative to everyone-else. Sure, he certainly ranks nicely among the top 15 Sith-powerhouses of all time, but many who've invested themselves in the character (going as far writing as writing 10? page essays) have decided such and acclaim is an "attack", rather than a commendation. The human ego is the most powerful force in the universe, so it's not surprising when people view attacks against their "tribes" as judgments on themselves.
I get it.
And Sheev is a very cool and strong character. But don't be too upset that in the context of battle, Traya is simply a bit cooler and stronger than him.
Originally posted by SunRazer
You're dodging my questions.
I'm not sure what you're expecting of me here. I've given you a perfectly sound and philosophical answer to why I don't believe Sheev can win against the assumption that he can. Which is the inherent problem with assuming he's the most powerful. There is no evidence that he's stronger and it's only assumed to be true. So all that's left here, is for fanatics to beg the question sans argument.
Where do you rank Sheev and Luke - which characters do you reckon are closest to them in skill and power?
I am not going to answer a loaded question that will lead to continuous "goal-post" moving . I wish to discuss the dueling prowess of Traya and Sheev against one another. If I had answered which characters I believe to be above him, then it gives you the opportunity to make these points more and more difficult (or diverse) till eventually I must fail. If nothing else, you will eventually find a subject that I'm not up on and declare your stake. Likewise, Luke's powers can be addressed somewhere else. They have nothing to do with this debate.
You also didn't address how Traya would win. Her being cooler and stronger are unsupported statements. Through what means does she beat Sidious, let alone stomp?
You've been ignoring my arguments from the last page. I've argued against Sheev's competency as a combatant, and given these inadequacies (or defensive lapses) I wouldn't be surprised If Traya could just rag-doll him. If you want to argue this, you can either make your own case or continue where the Ellimist started off. 🤣
Yoda is far more powerful than Meetra, but Sidious could beat him, Amped Mace Windu is a far better physical and martial combatant than Meetra, but Sidious could beat him.
Traya amped by a geyser of dark side energy however, failed to defeat a Meetra Surik who 1.had fatigued from fighting through numerous pairs of Storm Beasts, a legion of elite Sith and Darth Sion, and 2.was constantly physically suffering from the grip of a 'crushing' gravity well, was forced to use constant breath control so as to survive the innumerable gas vents inside and outside the Trayus Academy proper and was mentally suffering from the agony of the spirits of the dead.
Yeh, Sidious stomps.
Originally posted by AncientPower
Yoda is far more powerful than Meetra, but Sidious could beat him,
Correction - it is your personal conviction that Yoda is her superior, and that the disparity is large. So it is once again, begging the question. Do you have a Source that literally confirms Yoda > Exile? The only thing I can think of is a quote from the very early 2000's, which is predating even Biowares oldest machinations. Then we have the Jedi Path, with Yoda coming up short against two other Jedi masters in a measurement of raw Force-stout. Given his title, the Jedi Grandmaster is more powerful in a leadership sense, but all else is mindless speculation.
Amped Mace Windu is a far better physical and martial combatant than Meetra, but Sidious could beat him.
No. A supposedly 'amped' Mace Windu, left Palaptiney on the floor and parted from his blade. Sure, he wins through Anakin's interference, but is otherwise defeated. Not that this is at all relevant with what I'm trying to convey. Sidious can take the B-team off guard as much as he wants, and even stalemate the mighty; although possibly out-of-prime, Yoda. But how will that help him against powerful darksiders using attacks like drain, of which he has little - to no experience dealing with? This is also considering he's not planning to fight against such intrusions. All of this pulled together is a premise that requires a little non-bias thought , which is not the same as an ABC-paradigm seemingly crafted by DBZ fanatics.
Traya amped by a geyser of dark side energy however, failed to defeat a Meetra Surik who 1.had fatigued from fighting through numerous pairs of Storm Beasts, a legion of elite Sith and Darth Sionand 2.was constantly physically suffering from the grip of a 'crushing' gravity well, was forced to use constant breath control so as to survive the innumerable gas vents inside and outside the Trayus Academy proper and was mentally suffering from the agony of the spirits of the dead.
Well first of all Rayla, I've never heard of Mace or Yoda fighting legions of of Trayas Academy Sith-Maruaders. Warriors who were presumably empowering themselves with Dark Rage, affording super-human qualities that are beyond the average Jedi. Not forgetting Sion, who repeatedly makes Maul surviving bisection look like a joke, and has more experience fighting powerful Jedi from era's of actual warriors. Now given that Sion is showing up Maul's premier feat, and has experience dating back to Exar Kun's hayday, we probably have an individual that is more powerful, more skilled and more rage-fueled than Maul himself. The latter of whom is giving Sidious some difficulty in the saber department - on repeated occasions. But again, this is juts me entertaining your ABC ideas and not regarding the circumstances affiliated with them. You might ask why someone like the Exile can fight Traya so efficiently? And much like Vaapad's super-conducting loop, Exile's immunity to sith-techniques like drain was a strong deciding factors in her battle.
Yeh, Sidious stomps.
Lovely. I wonder why you're opinions are so strong on the matter, given that I've seen little evidence that Sidious wins let alone stomps. Do you think that winning an argument like this will give you the 'kudos' among piers who have little respect for you otherwise. Do you think of this argument as a low hanging piece of fruit, that you can pick up with out much effort or exertion. If so, just remember that it is Ziggy dangling that piece of fruit above your head, and he's not going to make it easy for you to catch.
Originally posted by AncientPowerJust to play devil's advocate, how do we know being the most powerful weapon of light the darkness has ever had to face necessarily translates into him being the most powerful combatant as far as combat is concerned? Are there not other ways to be a powerful weapon against the forces of darkness? After all, Luke saved the day and defeated the dark side in ROTJ not by his skills with a lightsaber or his command of the force, but by his conviction to the light. A quality that helped steer Vader back towards the right path. Luke was certainly did the most damage against the dark by his refusal to fight, thus was certainly as his most "powerful" then at that point of ROTJ.
You can stop using arguments I pioneered now, mkay?Yoda is stated to be the most powerful weapon of light the darkness has ever had to face, Mace Windu is essentially the ultimate anti-Sith Jedi warrior.
Neither of them could defeat Darth Sidious.
Perhaps similar reasoning could be applied to Yoda. After all, the green avatar of light had other skills outside of combat. He has trained and nurtured numerous Jedi into their development towards the light. If not for him, Luke Skywalker would've never become a full fledged Jedi.
Originally posted by AncientPower
[B]You can stop using arguments I pioneered now, mkay?
My ideas come from the source material, and not froufrou titled fan-fictions (Galaxy Guide 14 anyone?). So our arguments are not the same. So far, the only thing you've 'pioneered' is the fine art of forging quotes. Other than that, there's the strange ability your postings do to my head, which makes me read them back in the voice of Chris Crocker.
Yoda is stated to be the most powerful weapon of light the darkness has ever had to face,
Nothing more than your blind faith in narrative text. Have you considered the source it's coming from? The narrative mode dictating the telling of a story; and the succession of events is given in chronological order? Have you considered the potential implications such a quote taken at absolute face-value? Yoda - the most powerful foe the darkness had ever known... even moreso than the daughter?
Mace Windu is essentially the ultimate anti-Sith Jedi warrior.
It's become a habit of mine to meet superficial talking points with equally superficial retorts, rather than refuting them by setting forth their captious nature. But in this case I can't be asked. If you're not going to argue properly, you can fondle my nutsack.