You're right. Ignorant would be the better word to have used. I apologized for the offense. And yes, the Ancient Sith - even DE Sidious and Nihilius - have totally overexaggerated powers and abilities that are beyond the realm of understanding.
And you all want to crawl just NJO Luke? Nah, they're ALL possessed of unimaginable powers that just blow the Expanded Universe all out of proportion. I can understand being mega-powerful in the Force, but that is just ridiculous.
No, actually... the conditions surrounding all these characters besides Luke is more feasible.
Take Marka Ragnos. He was of a race that was incredibly Force sensitive, the Sith. He lived for what? A few hundred years? In his environment, Sith had to be very good or ended up very dead. I can see him having some considerable Force mastery, and considering that the Sith empire sat around for centuries thinking of ways to kill everything else, it would nto surprise me that they could do incredible things. It'd be nice if everyone was more even powered, but they aren't. And with the ancient Sith, this is more plausible than some human farmboy who became a jedi in a three week program, beat one lousy assed former jedi in a breathing suit, and then goes on to become the most powerful being in the world in under twenty years, surpassing Yoda! Yoda, who has lived for nine centuries. If anything, Yoda should be the most powerful jedi, period. No one else that i can recall has anywhere near his experience. No, the inconsistancy goes extreme with -Luke- being a forcegod. It's not even remotely explanable by his origins and experience and such, and NJO is a cockup of an attempt to pass off all this ridiculous bullshit.
So no, I don't have a problem with overpowered Sith. Not at all. It's what they do. If the most powerful Sith in the galaxy could only throw rocks and shock people, I would be disappointed.
It's a mindset.
Blatant, ridiculous power is something machisomistic about it. Imagine this:
Ragnos: I am top dog. All other dogs will find my urine stains everywhere. Plus, I can reach the counter. The other dogs are chihuahuas, and that chihuahua Simus is paralyzed because I was big enough to step on him. I pwn.
Now consider Sidious and Traya. This is less of a brute, dominating male-esque nature and more of a... insidious approach. It's more feminine in one way. Not taking away from the approach- it's definately equally powerful when used properly by either sex. But you get the contrast I'm implying- they are two separate takes on achieving and maintaining power. And I just tied them in with the gender thing to set off a bomb. Enjoy!
I disagree entirely.
Ragnos should have had a large amount of power to maintain his status for the length of time that he did. However, as with NJO Luke, there is no apparent weakness that Ragnos possesses. All Sith Lords and Jedi need to have weaknesses that their opponents can exploit.
If Ragnos is so powerful, perhaps he ought to be easily duped. Like Anakin. Anakin was very powerful. But he was reckless and easily outwitted.
Ragnos - ALL Sith - ALL Jedi - need to have a weakness. Perhaps Ragnos was allergic to cats and his enemies tossed him in a put full of them - and he died.
Not really a weakness I'd want him to have, but you get my drift.
Revan, Ragnos, NJO Luke, Kun, and all the others need to have a big weakness. If they don't, it defies the purpose of Star Wars and Ragnos would be invincible.
And as for the Yoda thing, I agree. Yoda had the experience as well as the raw power and connection in the Force. But going by that, he would squash Sidious and Dooku like bugs.
Sidious and Yoda represent the paragons of one another in the PT. You have Yoda - the badass of the light - and then you have Sidious - the badass of the dark. Sidious is old, but he is an infant when compared to Yoda. Yoda has around 850+ years of experience - and Sidious has about sixty.
Yet how did he manage to put Yoda to the test as he did? I'm curious as to how you think those sort of events unfolded. Should Sidious have been made an ancient man - ala the fan theory that he's hundreds of years old - or should his victory simply been a bi-product of the shift from light supremacy to dark supremacy?
Personally, Janus, how would you explain that - if you were Lucas?
Originally posted by Darth Somebody
I disagree entirely.Ragnos should have had a large amount of power to maintain his status for the length of time that he did. However, as with NJO Luke, there is no apparent weakness that Ragnos possesses. All Sith Lords and Jedi need to have weaknesses that their opponents can exploit.
If Ragnos is so powerful, perhaps he ought to be easily duped. Like Anakin. Anakin was very powerful. But he was reckless and easily outwitted.
Ragnos - ALL Sith - ALL Jedi - need to have a weakness. Perhaps Ragnos was allergic to cats and his enemies tossed him in a put full of them - and he died.
Not really a weakness I'd want him to have, but you get my drift.
Revan, Ragnos, NJO Luke, Kun, and all the others need to have a big weakness. If they don't, it defies the purpose of Star Wars and Ragnos would be invincible.
You're missing the point here. The situation they were in REQUIRED Ragnos to be both incredibly powerful and incredibly smart. He was mentioned explicitly as both, perhaps even the best fighter in the SW Universe and the best manipulator, I wouldn't put that past him.
Why is this not overpowered? Well, it's simple. No one has ever duplicated Ragnos' feats. He is legendary amongst a legendary clan of powerful force users.
You're telling me, that with all of the power the force possesses, that if you stick a couple million hardcore, badass force users, tell them to kick, claw, chew, and kill their way to the top, that the best the unquestioned greatest Sith leader could do is throw rocks and spears? Uh huh, right.
Originally posted by Darth Somebody
And as for the Yoda thing, I agree. Yoda had the experience as well as the raw power and connection in the Force. But going by that, he would squash Sidious and Dooku like bugs.Sidious and Yoda represent the paragons of one another in the PT. You have Yoda - the badass of the light - and then you have Sidious - the badass of the dark. Sidious is old, but he is an infant when compared to Yoda. Yoda has around 850+ years of experience - and Sidious has about sixty.
Yet how did he manage to put Yoda to the test as he did? I'm curious as to how you think those sort of events unfolded. Should Sidious have been made an ancient man - ala the fan theory that he's hundreds of years old - or should his victory simply been a bi-product of the shift from light supremacy to dark supremacy?
Personally, Janus, how would you explain that - if you were Lucas?
Easily. Misfortunate hits good as well as bad, strong as well as weak. And the pendulum of balance never stays in one place for very long. Darkness did gain a foothold, but for how long? A generation, if that. And then it was swept away in a new age of rebuilding. -That's- the point... Good will always lose ground because of many things- their moral restrictions, their desire to sacrifice for goals, and their nonaggressiveness. And evil will always take advantage of those, but never truly stay put because of being arrogant and vain and blinded by power, as all the Sith turned out to be. Ragnos' reign didn't quite tip the scales because he didn't do anything with his Sith army. He sat on them and told them to stay put. It wasn't until he died that Naga Sadow and Ludo Kressh opened a can of whupass on everyone and things got crazy. And they were defeated. -Despite- having amazing powers and armies, they were defeated. Because neither good nor evil can win, regardless of powers. It is the essence of conflict.
So yes, with a creative snag here or there, Lucas or any other decent person could make a scenario where a 900 year old mentor and jedi was defeated by some sleeper Sith lord. And Lucas did it very well- as ambiguous as possible, but still hinting at Yoda's great power, which was of no use to him because of his good -aligned limitations in the end.
I hope I said everything I meant to say right there, because I'm getting sidetracked here.
Originally posted by Lord Janus
Easily. Misfortunate hits good as well as bad, strong as well as weak. And the pendulum of balance never stays in one place for very long. Darkness did gain a foothold, but for how long? A generation, if that. And then it was swept away in a new age of rebuilding. -That's- the point... Good will always lose ground because of many things- their moral restrictions, their desire to sacrifice for goals, and their nonaggressiveness. And evil will always take advantage of those, but never truly stay put because of being arrogant and vain and blinded by power, as all the Sith turned out to be. Ragnos' reign didn't quite tip the scales because he didn't do anything with his Sith army. He sat on them and told them to stay put. It wasn't until he died that Naga Sadow and Ludo Kressh opened a can of whupass on everyone and things got crazy. And they were defeated. -Despite- having amazing powers and armies, they were defeated. Because neither good nor evil can win, regardless of powers. It is the essence of conflict.So yes, with a creative snag here or there, Lucas or any other decent person could make a scenario where a 900 year old mentor and jedi was defeated by some sleeper Sith lord. And Lucas did it very well- as ambiguous as possible, but still hinting at Yoda's great power, which was of no use to him because of his good -aligned limitations in the end.
I hope I said everything I meant to say right there, because I'm getting sidetracked here.
Misfortune? I don't know. It makes sense to me that Sidious had a strong connection in the Force. He learned a lot more in a lot less time. But yes, I suppose so. But that battle - along with his duel with Count Dooku - were probably one of Yoda's toughest.
Originally posted by Darth Somebody
Best manipulator? Kreia and Sidious are the best in that category.But I suppose you're right. Ragnos's purpose was to be vastly overpowered. Perhaps NJO Luke's purpose is to be overpowered as well, then.
If Kreia and Sidious ever met Ragnos, they'd get spun around and manipulated by him, guaranteed.
I could argue SADOW is as good of a manipulator as Kreia and Sidious, what he did with the Sith was nothing short of ingenious. Yet, even Sadow was scared of Ragnos.
Originally posted by Illustrious
If Kreia and Sidious ever met Ragnos, they'd get spun around and manipulated by him, guaranteed.I could argue SADOW is as good of a manipulator as Kreia and Sidious, what he did with the Sith was nothing short of ingenious. Yet, even Sadow was scared of Ragnos.
Doubtful. Highly doubtful, considering Sidious manipulated people on a galactic level - and Kreia nearly destroyed the Force. But I'll take your word on it.
But remember. Nothing is certain.
"Always in future, the motion is." - Yoda. 😛
Originally posted by Darth_Nefarus
Well even if there are some attacks that can't be countered, Luke could just throw her at a star with little effort.
The guy can control gravity, one of the four major forces (non spiritual) in the universe.
However, if she managed to get it off, sorry Luke, even someone as hardcore into him as me knows he'd be takin the D in the B
You cannot throw a star at someone in a conventional duel without obliterating yourself!