Ben Kenobi and ROTS ani vs ROTS obi wan and darth vader

Started by darthsith194 pages

Ani beats Vader, younger Kenobi beats older Kenobi (IMHO) but then Ani beats young Kenobi. So Ani but Ben dies.

Any reasons?

Originally posted by Fishy
Any reasons?

Uh, your talking about why I think ROTS Obi-Wan is stronger than ANH Obi, right? Well, judging by the duel in ANH (though Obi wasn't going full out on Vader) ROTS Obi-Wan is stronger. I think if ANH Obi-Wan was stronger than ROTS Obi-Wan he'd have killed Vader, pwn any of the Stormtroopers who got in his way and leave the Death Star. He killed tons of Clone Troopers in the Temple. True, Yoda was helping him, but on the Death Star Obi would only have to get to the Falcon + Clone Troopers are stronger than Stormtroopers and in ANH Obi did have Luke's help.

Also we really have no proof Obi did anything except talk to Qui-Gon between ROTS and ANH.

Umm....
Wow....
Does someone else want to comment his response. Almost everything in that paragraph is not logical.

So, he could obviously kill those stormtroopers he didn't. Anakin got a better control too, maybe he wasn't as powerful as before but he had more skill and a better control over the force. Obi Wan also didn't want to kill Vader... He sacrifised himself.

Originally posted by darthsith19
Uh, your talking about why I think ROTS Obi-Wan is stronger than ANH Obi, right? Well, judging by the duel in ANH (though Obi wasn't going full out on Vader) ROTS Obi-Wan is stronger. I think if ANH Obi-Wan was stronger than ROTS Obi-Wan he'd have killed Vader, pwn any of the Stormtroopers who got in his way and leave the Death Star. He killed tons of Clone Troopers in the Temple. True, Yoda was helping him, but on the Death Star Obi would only have to get to the Falcon + Clone Troopers are stronger than Stormtroopers and in ANH Obi did have Luke's help.

Also we really have no proof Obi did anything except talk to Qui-Gon between ROTS and ANH.

Janus get over here and say something funny about this pile of so called "logic".

Originally posted by darthsith19
Uh, your talking about why I think ROTS Obi-Wan is stronger than ANH Obi, right? Well, judging by the duel in ANH (though Obi wasn't going full out on Vader) ROTS Obi-Wan is stronger. I think if ANH Obi-Wan was stronger than ROTS Obi-Wan he'd have killed Vader, pwn any of the Stormtroopers who got in his way and leave the Death Star. He killed tons of Clone Troopers in the Temple. True, Yoda was helping him, but on the Death Star Obi would only have to get to the Falcon + Clone Troopers are stronger than Stormtroopers and in ANH Obi did have Luke's help.

Also we really have no proof Obi did anything except talk to Qui-Gon between ROTS and ANH.

I hath been called. Ah, another darthsith19 logic pwn fest.

Assumption- Clone Troopers are -stronger- than Stormtroopers.

Assumption- Strength has any bearing on the argument in regards to troopers.

Assumption- ROTS Obi-Wan is stronger.

Assumption- Strength is the ultimate decider of this battle, not wisdom or anything else.

Assumption- ANH Obi-Wan -couldn't- kill the stormtroopers that got in his way.

Assumption- He didn't kill them, thus he must not be able to. It has NO bearing on his intelligence and philosophy.

Logical support or factual support for any of these assumptions- NONE!

Thank you for playing "How poorly can you reason?"

Star Wars versus Forum: assuming only. tomato

Originally posted by overlord
Star Wars versus Forum: assuming only. tomato

No, it's making inferences from observations and using logic. His reasoning is poor. He has assumptions that supposively affect the battle, but they don't. Ben Kenobi not killing stormtroopers doesn't preclude that he can kill them. Also, there is nothing stating that Clone Troopers are superior to Storm troopers. If you're assuming that Stormtroopers can't shoot based on their performance based on the shoot out scene right after Ben dies (When Luke is standing there, not getting hit, particularly) this is a poor assumption.

First, you're assuming that millions of stormtroopers must suck because these stormtroopers didn't kill the protagonists of the series.

Second, you're assuming the stormtroopers were intent on killing. Remember that Vader had placed a tracking device on the Falcon. He -wanted- Leia to escape and to lead them to the Rebels. Leia even says so herself. If anything, it's a more sound assumption in thinking that the stormtroopers didn't kill anyone from the Falcon because they were ordered to.

See the difference? Yes, we have to make some assumptions here, and really, in everything in life. The difference is how the argument is prepared and if it stands up to scrutiny. If the argument itself is logically unsound, it's a poor assumption by construction.

There, that make sense?

i think dark sith has got a better idea of this than you janus

So wait.

You actually think that a bogus argument on stormtroopers makes him win?

Stormtroopers and cloens could be the exact same thing unlikely but it could be for a big part. Yeah clones would most likely be superior but not by so much that stormtroopers are just going to suck. They did take destroy Hoth afterall...

Obi Wan could have easily killed two stormtroopers even a youngling did it, no way in hell that it would be hard but Obi Wan didn't he had his reasons for not doing it. And Obi Wan did hold back against Vader so that fight means nothing either. All in all we have nothing to measure Obi Wan his power with in ANH. We can only guess on it, and my guess wouldn't be that he became weaker.

i think that old age did not suit obi won too much and just made him weaker and slower. He was not impressive at all. he only became wiser and more boring.

Originally posted by thenewhope
i think dark sith has got a better idea of this than you janus

Wow, thanks for the input. You must be right and him, and I must be wrong.

EXCEPT for the small fact that his argument doesn't make a lick of sense. You have anything to support his argument, or are you just being a total noob with no concept of debate?

hah janus has been here twice as long as most people on this website i think he knows just a little bit more than darthsith, and you obviosly haven't heard what darthsith has said in the past ....he's horrable

Originally posted by thenewhope
i think dark sith has got a better idea of this than you janus

Thank you, thenewhope. And thanks for nothing, Janus. thenewhope, Janus pretty much goes strutting around here with his pack of Jawa's making fun of people's replies. You'll get used to it. He seems to like making fun of my replies. Funny though, I don't see him posting any proof than I'm wrong, just insults. Guess htere is no proof. Oh yeah, and I'm like, the only one here who's not in the Jawa Order cause personally I don't find Jawa's that awesome, they're pretty cool but nothing that tight plus why would I want to join a club Janus leads? And I know Janus or Sorgo or some other Jawa dude will come here and make fun of this post but whatever, that's the way they are.

See ya.

Originally posted by darthsith19
Thank you, thenewhope. And thanks for nothing, Janus. thenewhope, Janus pretty much goes strutting around here with his pack of Jawa's making fun of people's replies. You'll get used to it. He seems to like making fun of my replies. Funny though, I don't see him posting any proof than I'm wrong, just insults. Guess htere is no proof. Oh yeah, and I'm like, the only one here who's not in the Jawa Order cause personally I don't find Jawa's that awesome, they're pretty cool but nothing that tight plus why would I want to join a club Janus leads? And I know Janus or Sorgo or some other Jawa dude will come here and make fun of this post but whatever, that's the way they are.

See ya.

You know what?

Wait nevermind all let Janus answer this one...

Originally posted by darthsith19
Thank you, thenewhope. And thanks for nothing, Janus. thenewhope, Janus pretty much goes strutting around here with his pack of Jawa's making fun of people's replies. You'll get used to it. He seems to like making fun of my replies. Funny though, I don't see him posting any proof than I'm wrong, just insults. Guess htere is no proof. Oh yeah, and I'm like, the only one here who's not in the Jawa Order cause personally I don't find Jawa's that awesome, they're pretty cool but nothing that tight plus why would I want to join a club Janus leads? And I know Janus or Sorgo or some other Jawa dude will come here and make fun of this post but whatever, that's the way they are.

See ya.

Uh, I was actually tearing your reasoning apart, which is perfectly acceptible in debating. We -were- debating, right? It's not ad hominem if I tear your argument apart, even if I'm less then respectful about it. You can attack me and claim I say this or do that, but you can't hold a candle to my debating skills. Nice try though. Gonna refute me, or will that take too much effort?

I think we're all agreed that Janus is a god of debate and Darthsith and thenewhope are not.

Originally posted by CobbleR
I think we're all agreed that Janus is a god of debate and Darthsith and thenewhope are not.

Thank you!

And this goes into my profile... lol

Originally posted by darthsith19
Thank you, thenewhope. And thanks for nothing, Janus. thenewhope, Janus pretty much goes strutting around here with his pack of Jawa's making fun of people's replies. You'll get used to it. He seems to like making fun of my replies. Funny though, I don't see him posting any proof than I'm wrong, just insults. Guess htere is no proof. Oh yeah, and I'm like, the only one here who's not in the Jawa Order cause personally I don't find Jawa's that awesome, they're pretty cool but nothing that tight plus why would I want to join a club Janus leads? And I know Janus or Sorgo or some other Jawa dude will come here and make fun of this post but whatever, that's the way they are.

See ya.

If thats what you want to call it, you are insane...

Still I said pretty much the same thing, debate that then. I mean if your that good with debating it shouldn't be any trouble.