Solid Snake Vs Spiderman

Started by Tha C-Master27 pages

Alright,some people still are uncertain as to what plot devices are, and the rules for debating are here....

Snake beat Cyber ninja after leaving and a metal gear rex killed him.

I can make a list all day long of who snake beat, problem is snake is peak human, and like it or not, feat wars don't make a strong argument.

Since we are going to go ahead and use the hero factor, sonic beat an entire space station, and superman gets killed by bank robbers with guns.

Seriously, snake is the same person who caught a cold, and died easily if guards caught him, can we stop using stupid clips to support our premise, because they are outside of his abilities OR don't follow the conditions of this matchup.

Stop using stupid game mechanics, because wolverine beat onslaught then, because I used him to beat onslaught.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Alright,some people still are uncertain as to what plot devices are, and the rules for debating are here....

Snake beat Cyber ninja after leaving and a metal gear rex killed him.

I can make a list all day long of who snake beat, problem is snake is peak human, and like it or not, feat wars don't make a strong argument.

Since we are going to go ahead and use the hero factor, sonic beat an entire space station, and superman gets killed by bank robbers with guns.

Seriously, snake is the same person who caught a cold, and died easily if guards caught him, can we stop using stupid clips to support our premise, because they are outside of his abilities OR don't follow the conditions of this matchup.

Stop using stupid game mechanics, because wolverine beat onslaught then, because I used him to beat onslaught.


snake isnt peak human...he is low level super-human, but besides that i totally agree with you

not

Where does it say he's low level superhuman, or are we continuing to dig stuff out of our ass, the entire debate, hmm?

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Where does it say he's low level superhuman, or are we continuing to dig stuff out of our ass, the entire debate, hmm?

i dont know WHERE THE HELL you got diggin and ass from but, youget your kicks how you get your kicks..... and he is low -superhuman by marvel standards, he performs above peak human, classing his strength at 4, he can most likely run the 40 yard dash in about 3.2 seconds, and he is more agile than any human, his reflexes are also low superhuman, im not saying that these things are on par with spideybitch im simply pointing out that he is above peak human.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Where does it say he's low level superhuman, or are we continuing to dig stuff out of our ass, the entire debate, hmm?
Solid Snake was bitten by a genetically modified Snake... it's in the BS Comics Handbook 2004.... he can shoot sunlasers too..

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Solid Snake was bitten by a genetically modified Snake... it's in the BS Comics Handbook 2004.... he can shoot sunlasers too..

hahahahahhhahahaha......wait your not c17.......its always so much funnier when he says it...

I'm sorry c17 is unavailable right now. You'll have to make do.

Putting comic characters against game characters is flawed. How many times does Snake die and you have to load from saved game when you play MGS right through?

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I'm sorry c17 is unavailable right now. You'll have to make do.

Putting comic characters against game characters is flawed. How many times does Snake die and you have to load from saved game when you play MGS right through?


none if you have the gift

Originally posted by King KAM
i dont know WHERE THE HELL you got diggin and ass from but, youget your kicks how you get your kicks..... and he is low -superhuman by marvel standards, he performs above peak human, classing his strength at 4, he can most likely run the 40 yard dash in about 3.2 seconds, and he is more agile than any human, his reflexes are also low superhuman, im not saying that these things are on par with spideybitch im simply pointing out that he is above peak human.
So its some stuff you made up while contributing nothing to the debate, exactly...

The same snake that dies VERY easily, and runs at normal pace huh?

Fanboys are funny, love the realism, and try to take it away for a debate.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
So its some stuff you made up while contributing nothing to the debate, exactly...

The same snake that dies VERY easily, and runs at normal pace huh?

Fanboys are funny, love the realism, and try to take it away for a debate.


im not a fanboy of anyone.....well maybe wolverine, juggernaut, and the joker....but thats all Snake has actually earned the respect i give him.

Wolverine fanboy eh?

I see the correlation now between this thread and some of the supporters.

Snake is a cool character, I'm tired of "coolness arguments" and people who let coolness get to their heads, no offense.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Wolverine fanboy eh?

I see the correlation now between this thread and some of the supporters.

Snake is a cool character, I'm tired of "coolness arguments" and people who let coolness get to their heads, no offense.

Omg, I go to sleep, and when i wake up I see this crap.

1.Spiderman catches colds, in cold areas to0.
2. Soldiers beating Snake, Like 10 of them surrounded him with a gun, and Snake disarmed them and was about exscape but a Sniper was pointed at his heart, by not an ordinary Sniper, that Sniperwolf had.
All the soldiers are not even ordinary, they are enhanced by genetics, and Snake still beat them all.

As for Snake beat Cyber Ninja, you think oh he got beat by Snake, Thats nothing to be ashamed of as, you would think it is. Stop calling him peak human, and compairing peak human in the MGS series and peak human in Spiderman series. It's like Marvel and DC universe, if they ever did a cross over, then they would be balanced, like if Spiderman was in MGS he would be like Cyber Ninja and others.

Sonic beat space station, you are sinking low, well in the Sonic universe, Sonic is able to do that, like Superman was normal on krypton but when he came to earth, he could lift up planes. In the Sonic universe, he is able to beat space station, because everyone is normally that strong. Did you see how strong knuckles is in there, and when Sonic generates enough power with his speed, he could do all kinds of things, like the flash. Sonic cuts through robots with like the spikes on his back. In the manual on Sonic and knuckles bios, and abilities they say all kinds of things and mostly knuckles strength but the game shows you what he is capable of, visual aid, instead of just reading it.

So if Spiderman in the comics, started to flyaround, and shoot lasers from his eyes, you will go wtf, spiderman cant do that, but if he swings around you will be like he could do that, so how is it PIS/CIS, when from his power he could do it, and the comic is just showing you how. Visaul again.

Comics, have billions and alternate universes, where that doesnt even happen, and Onslaught was the mind crap, so... The game has few, and it doesn't do that, to milk money, if it did then, Solid Snake would of started to fly.

You had to say it like that ? Could we stop using Stupid clips ?
Come on, that was just..no

Oh yeah, and for as oh Cyber Ninja got beatenby Snake. Well for a person like you, I never thougfht I would hear that, since you don't like me saying that xxx beats xxx in Spidermans case., but then you go Snake = xxxx beat Cyber Ninja= xxx so Spiderman= xxx could beat Snake = xxxx

Originally posted by TwisterGameX
Omg, I go to sleep, and when i wake up I see this crap.

I could say the same thing, I keep explaining what I said when I meant "within abilities" and "PIS/CIS" to have my words misconstrued and used in sarcasm.

You are taking this the wrong way anyway, because it was aimed at someone else, who, like many others, think that "Lets use spiderman at his worst, and snake at his best, is a good argument."

I'm sick and tired of it.

Originally posted by TwisterGameX
1.Spiderman catches colds, in cold areas to0.

What are you talking about really?

My point was that no matter what snake pulls off, he is of human physioligy, and can be killed easily, like batman.

Either way, spiderman has a super accelerated metabolism, and is MUCH less likely to get sick than old snake, who got a cold on the cold levels anyway.

Originally posted by TwisterGameX
2. Soldiers beating Snake, Like 10 of them surrounded him with a gun,

You are using cinematics again, which are usually random, or go along to make the story work, a plot device.

What is a plot device again?

A plot device is a person or an object introduced to a story to affect or advance the plot. In the hands of a skilled writer, the reader or viewer will not notice that the device is a construction of the author—it will seem to follow naturally from the setting or characters in the story. A poorly-written story, on the other hand, may have such awkward or contrived plot devices that the reader has serious trouble maintaining suspension of disbelief; indeed, the devices may even leave plot holes.

If he uses a big bar out of nowhere, its a plot device.

If something helps, its a plot device.

If he's distracted by an explosion, its a plot device.

Plot devices are excluded from hypothetical debates.

Originally posted by TwisterGameX
and Snake disarmed them and was about exscape but a Sniper was pointed at his heart, by not an ordinary Sniper, that Sniperwolf had.

Thats nice that you know snakes history, as many of us do, but you are still missing the point, sadly.

Sniperwolf, cyber ninja, and whoever else you are using aren't in this fight.

We are trying to determine the victor by facts, what is known about them, and seeing if they can measure up, not using intangibles.

"xxx beat xxx, so xxx beats xxx" argument isn't a strong premise, nor does it make a good contingent thesis.

Originally posted by TwisterGameX
All the soldiers are not even ordinary, they are enhanced by genetics, and Snake still beat them all.

Spiderman beat silver surfer, while he had the carnage symbiote on him.

See what I mean, have you actually said how snake was winning?

You are telling me what he did in the past, it sounds like a rapper rapping about himself.

Originally posted by TwisterGameX
As for Snake beat Cyber Ninja, you think oh he got beat by Snake, Thats nothing to be ashamed of as, you would think it is.

Huh?

Who said it was something to be ashamed of?

Again, its cool that Cyber Ninja was defeated by metal rex, but thats not my point.

Going by kmc rules, we are to use each of what the characters can do, and pit them against each other, no plot devices, no intanibles, no hero factor.

Do you think snake would beat cyber ninja in a random battle more times than not?

Snake is a stealth expert, its what made him who he is, and thats how i respect him, putting him in matches like this, simply say that someone doesn't appreciate what made snake, snake.

Originally posted by TwisterGameX
Stop calling him peak human, and compairing peak human in the MGS series and peak human in Spiderman series.

I wish that you'd understand my arguments, before you rebut them or are unsatisfied with them.

A peak human is simply someone that is at the HEIGHT of human abilities, the best of what a human can be.

Enhanced, means that they are enhanced by other means.

Snake is at the best of what a human can be, enhanced by other means.

So he's an enhanced peak human.

Please show me where this is otherwise.

Originally posted by TwisterGameX
It's like Marvel and DC universe, if they ever did a cross over, then they would be balanced, like if Spiderman was in MGS he would be like Cyber Ninja and others.

Only taking away from your own argument, which makes me put up plot device ONCE again.

A plot device is a person or an object introduced to a story to affect or advance the plot. In the hands of a skilled writer, the reader or viewer will not notice that the device is a construction of the author—it will seem to follow naturally from the setting or characters in the story. A poorly-written story, on the other hand, may have such awkward or contrived plot devices that the reader has serious trouble maintaining suspension of disbelief; indeed, the devices may even leave plot holes.

When they did those silly crossovers, wolverine beat lobo, which given his stats and abilities, he is simply too insufficient to compare, but he did it.

Not valid, thats an example of something introduced to make the match even, and therefore is not valid.

Crossovers aren't canon, and aren't reliable usually, and are also not valid.

Originally posted by TwisterGameX
Sonic beat space station, you are sinking low, well in the Sonic universe, Sonic is able to do that,

What you don't seem to understand, or rather not accept is that there are certain logical parameters that are needed within debating.

This isn't a debate of comic logic versus game logic, its a debate of what a character should and shouldn't be able to do, given what they have, and logically and OBJECTIVELY debating them.

1.Sonic goes really fast, but gets hit by jumping bears.

2.Sonic wouldn't logically destroy a space station that heavily armed.

3.Sonic can't rend steel without enough velocity, or he can on some things, but not on others.

Its called game mechanics.

Originally posted by TwisterGameX
ike Superman was normal on krypton but when he came to earth, he could lift up planes.

Thats superman, I don't get what you are implying by bringing in his bio field.

Originally posted by TwisterGameX
In the Sonic universe, he is able to beat space station, because everyone is normally that strong.

So you are trying to say in sonic universe, gotcha.

That only shows why snake isn't a good character to use in versus.

People play it for the realism, but then take it away to suit their argument.

This blows your ENTIRE argument out of the water, about snake being above this or that, because he isn't as strong within another universe anyways.

Rethink what you just said please.

Originally posted by TwisterGameX
Did you see how strong knuckles is in there, and when Sonic generates enough power with his speed, he could do all kinds of things, like the flash.

*sigh*

I know about sonic very well, and have been playing it for 2 decades.

But according to this, if he moves SO fast, why is he hit by silly things like jumping bears?

If you answer this, then do you think that game mechanics is indeed a factor that should be taken out, as well as PIS/CIS.

Sonic is Mach 1, around the speed of sound, Flash goes BEYOND lightspeed, there is no way you can compare sonic to the flash.

Flash has more abilities to boot.

Originally posted by TwisterGameX
Sonic cuts through robots with like the spikes on his back. In the manual on Sonic and knuckles bios, and abilities they say all kinds

I know what the game allows you to do, why can't he cut simple dirt then, or the walls on the level that are predesigned?

This should all be included and considered in debates.

Why don't powerful missile launchers go through the walls, but blow up entire areas?

Originally posted by TwisterGameX
of things and mostly knuckles strength but the game shows you what he is capable of, visual aid, instead of just reading it.

Not always though like you say, it shows what he DID, not whats reasonable within his abilities, for OR against him.

That is no different than using the "when" arguments, instead of the "why arguments", because we are not discussing someones history, we are debating a particular match.

Originally posted by TwisterGameX
So if Spiderman in the comics, started to flyaround, and shoot lasers from his eyes, you will go wtf, spiderman cant do that,

Of course I would if it was a one shot, because it wouldn't be logical, and would be a plot device.

No different than if cap went and killed off the xmen at the same time, it may have happened, but i wouldn't accept it.

What are you implying anyway, did you miss the SvFL discussion draco had yesterday?

Originally posted by TwisterGameX
but if he swings around you will be like he could do that, so how is it PIS/CIS, when from his power he could do it, and the comic is just showing you how. Visaul again.

You contradicted your own argument, you just said above if I saw it, I shouldn't believe it.

Now you are saying that since I saw it I SHOULD believe it?

No implication of logic or anything here...

Originally posted by TwisterGameX
Comics, have billions and alternate universes, where that doesnt even happen, and Onslaught was the mind crap

You are just talking now, what do you mean?

It seems like you are simply confirming my point, of why we should use what a character is factually given, and take out intangibles for this very reason

Originally posted by TwisterGameX
so... The game has few, and it doesn't do that, to milk money, if it did then, Solid Snake would of started to fly.

Games don't milk money, oh really?

You were okay trying to discuss comics, but games is my specialty.

E3 is nothing but HYPE most of the time, with the same ol thing being released over and over again.

Why are they making metal gear solid again, its a cash cow, people will buy it, JUST like zelda.

Originally posted by TwisterGameX
You had to say it like that ? Could we stop using Stupid clips ?
Come on, that was just..no

Continuing to use intangibles for your character only, and discarding all logic and reasoning, gives people a fanboy reputation.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Of course I would if it was a one shot, because it wouldn't be logical, and would be a plot device.

No different than if cap went and killed off the xmen at the same time, it may have happened, but i wouldn't accept it.

What are you implying anyway, did you miss the SvFL discussion draco had yesterday?

You contradicted your own argument, you just said above if I saw it, I shouldn't believe it.

Now you are saying that since I saw it I SHOULD believe it?

No implication of logic or anything here...

Spiderman beat silver surfer, while he had the carnage symbiote on him.

See what I mean, have you actually said how snake was winning?

You are telling me what he did in the past, it sounds like a rapper rapping about himself.

You are just talking now, what do you mean?

It seems like you are simply confirming my point, of why we should use what a character is factually given, and take out intangibles for this very reason

Games don't milk money, oh really?

You were okay trying to discuss comics, but games is my specialty.

E3 is nothing but HYPE most of the time, with the same ol thing being released over and over again.

Why are they making metal gear solid again, its a cash cow, people will buy it, JUST like zelda.

Continuing to use intangibles for your character only, and discarding all logic and reasoning, gives people a fanboy reputation.

Mgs games not every games so far.

As for Wolverine beating lobo, that was by peoples VOTES not regular cross over.

Realism in Snake games and people like it, is that in the game they are enhanced soldiers he fights, by the genetics, and what not, which could be real, and Snake being in experiments since he was born, and how he is not human, like the comic people.

So Spiderman can't beat, Rhino Green Goblin, and Venom then right. Logically

Originally posted by TwisterGameX
Oh yeah, and for as oh Cyber Ninja got beatenby Snake. Well for a person like you, I never thougfht I would hear that, since you don't like me saying that xxx beats xxx in Spidermans case., but then you go Snake = xxxx beat Cyber Ninja= xxx so Spiderman= xxx could beat Snake = xxxx

Originally posted by TwisterGameX
Mgs games not every games so far.

As for Wolverine beating lobo, that was by peoples VOTES not regular cross over.

Realism in Snake games and people like it, is that in the game they are enhanced soldiers he fights, by the genetics, and what not, which could be real, and Snake being in experiments since he was born, and how he is not human, like the comic people.

So Spiderman can't beat, Rhino Green Goblin, and Venom then right. Logically

Crossovers are still crap for the most part and not valid.

Superboy losing to spiderman, batman beating hulk, superman beating thor. popularity enseus.

Ok if snake is realistic, then why do have to keep bringing up things that are plot devices and are illogical.

Spiderman can beat rhino, and goblin, but he would lose to venom 8/10 unless beserk, also depends on which venom.

Why are you asking me this, are you accusing me of something?

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Crossovers are still crap for the most part and not valid.

Superboy losing to spiderman, batman beating hulk, superman beating thor. popularity enseus.

Ok if snake is realistic, then why do have to keep bringing up things that are plot devices and are illogical.

Spiderman can beat rhino, and goblin, but he would lose to venom 8/10 unless beserk, also depends on which venom.

Why are you asking me this, are you accusing me of something?

Didnt I just say those were votes ?

Snake is realistic,
If theres soliders that are genitically enhanced and Above peak, and stuff which could be real, but no ones knows about it. As explained in that story and it's timeline, on how they became that Strong and everything. I know in the game there is 30 minute cutscenes to show the written story on how Snake did everything that is written, but try to watch the 30 minute cutscenses that explain how everyone came to be that strong, not getting bitten by a spider but how the genitics and other was used, plus the nano machines for the soliders but Snake still beat them. No distraction, when all those gaurds had a gun to his head in MGS 1, but Snake disarmed them all, he didnt pull out a jet plabe out his ass, he used his hands.

Originally posted by TwisterGameX
Didnt I just say those were votes ?

Snake is realistic,
If theres soliders that are genitically enhanced and Above peak, and stuff which could be real, but no ones knows about it. As explained in that story and it's timeline, on how they became that Strong and everything. I know in the game there is 30 minute cutscenes to show the written story on how Snake did everything that is written, but try to watch the 30 minute cutscenses that explain how everyone came to be that strong, not getting bitten by a spider but how the genitics and other was used, plus the nano machines for the soliders but Snake still beat them. No distraction, when all those gaurds had a gun to his head in MGS 1, but Snake disarmed them all, he didnt pull out a jet plabe out his ass, he used his hands.

All of those weren't votes, and I failed to see your popoint.

God that game did have cutscenes, and nice feats, but all the feats aren't logical, and don't correlate with the stipulations of this matchup.

So why keep using them?