Originally posted by Orestesstill using this, spiderman stopped a train, how about that...
This is so easy.The cyber ninja guy effortlessly parried bullets no matter how fast you fired at him.
The ability to parry rapid gunfire with a sword is >>>>> Spidey's ability to dodge.
Yet Snake still won that encounter ... in HAND-TO-HAND.
I'm not quite sure what Spidey's game plan could possibly be here. 😉
As it was pointed out before, CN was holding back. Spiderman won't be.
If I remember the story of MGS, Ninja wasn't holding back on Snake. Snake used chaff grenades on him to **** up his shit and beat him that way.
Ninja was pretty strong though, he got stepped on by metal gear at the end of MGS and managed to hold out for awhile.
Originally posted by King KAMHe's enhanced to peak human, we are just pulling stuff we like
Snake being above peak human is stated in the game when liquid talks to him about their births, he tells snake(solid) that he has been genteitcally enhanced to be superior in phsycal feat then humanly possible.
Originally posted by Creshosk
You don't know anything about Spiderman do you?CN lacking any form of precog, pseudo precog or otherwise, actually does have to put effort into dodging. . . I noticed that CN was grazed by a bullet in the clip we were shown.
Spidey's ability to dodge is actually greater than CN's ability.
As it was pointed out before, CN was holding back. Spiderman won't be.
Disarm and web up sounds good to me.
This is such a meaningless response -- about all you actually did was toss off an insult. You offered no response to the fact that CN demonstrated an ability to consistently parry rapid gunfire -- something Spider-Man has never proven himself able to do. Granted, he CAN and DOES evade it by leaping around, but as Punisher proved very early in his own career, a clever and skilled gunman can still hit Spidey by studying him and being able to anticipate his moves, then tag him while he's in mid-air (Pun did this and could easily have killed Spidey). Therefore, Spidey isn't so much actually dodging bullets as making himself an incredibly difficult target by leaping around. That's very effective for him, yes, but it's not as effective as being able to simply stand there and parry small-arms bullets AFTER they're fired.
Please try to stick to the topic rather than babbling about not knowing a character. 😉
Originally posted by OrestesWait spiderman is dodging the bullets, there is a distinct difference between that and the gunman missing.
This is such a meaningless response -- about all you actually did was toss off an insult. You offered no response to the fact that CN demonstrated an ability to consistently parry rapid gunfire -- something Spider-Man has never proven himself able to do. Granted, he CAN and DOES evade it by leaping around, but as Punisher proved very early in his own career, a clever and skilled gunman can still hit Spidey by studying him and being able to anticipate his moves, then tag him while he's in mid-air (Pun did this and could easily have killed Spidey). Therefore, Spidey isn't so much actually dodging bullets as making himself an incredibly difficult target by leaping around. That's very effective for him, yes, but it's not as effective as being able to simply stand there and parry small-arms bullets AFTER they're fired.Please try to stick to the topic rather than babbling about not knowing a character. 😉
Spiderman wouldn't parry them if he could dodge them.
Originally posted by OrestesSpiderman can dodge bullets without thinking about it.
This is such a meaningless response -- about all you actually did was toss off an insult. You offered no response to the fact that CN demonstrated an ability to consistently parry rapid gunfire -- something Spider-Man has never proven himself able to do. Granted, he CAN and DOES evade it by leaping around, but as Punisher proved very early in his own career, a clever and skilled gunman can still hit Spidey by studying him and being able to anticipate his moves, then tag him while he's in mid-air (Pun did this and could easily have killed Spidey). Therefore, Spidey isn't so much actually dodging bullets as making himself an incredibly difficult target by leaping around. That's very effective for him, yes, but it's not as effective as being able to simply stand there and parry small-arms bullets AFTER they're fired.Please try to stick to the topic rather than babbling about not knowing a character. 😉
A gunman calculating spiderman's random movements is PIS. . . Because the spidersense would automatically take into account the "adjustments" made and automatically adjust for that.
Originally posted by Creshosk
Spiderman can dodge bullets without thinking about it.A gunman calculating spiderman's random movements is PIS. . . Because the spidersense would automatically take into account the "adjustments" made and automatically adjust for that.
...Man. This is actually kinda nice having Cresh on the same side for once. I'm not really used to it. I think we need to head back to Wolverine vs. Spiderman, Cresh. Ya know, so we can be at each others' throats again. 😛
And I agree completely, by the way.
(Not directed towards you, Cresh)
Besides, wasn't CN dodging bullets, too? Apparently he can't parry super-powerful machine gun fire from a Metal Gear, he has to dodge them. So, don't go off about how he can parry all sorts of fire when it's clear that he has to dodge at times as well.
And then, what's this? CN's moves could then be calculated as well! Let's think about this one now, shall we?
Originally posted by MetalmanxActually he can choose to parry or dodge. The only reason why Spiderman doesn't is he doesn't have anything to parry them with.
...Man. This is actually kinda nice having Cresh on the same side for once. I'm not really used to it. I think we need to head back to Wolverine vs. Spiderman, Cresh. Ya know, so we can be at each others' throats again. 😛And I agree completely, by the way.
(Not directed towards you, Cresh)
Besides, wasn't CN dodging bullets, too? Apparently he can't parry super-powerful machine gun fire from a Metal Gear, he has to dodge them. So, don't go off about how he can parry all sorts of fire when it's clear that he has to dodge at times as well.
Originally posted by MetalmanxAlot better than random movement, because CN isn't as random.
And then, what's this? CN's moves could then be calculated as well! Let's think about this one now, shall we?
Originally posted by Creshosk
Spiderman can dodge bullets without thinking about it.A gunman calculating spiderman's random movements is PIS. . . Because the spidersense would automatically take into account the "adjustments" made and automatically adjust for that.
Meh. No. Wrong. Spidey's "spider sense" isn't that precise normally. He's BEEN portrayed with it being that precise, sure, but normally, he's most certainly able to be tagged (and has been ... on many occasions). So it's just not as good as you're making it out to be.
Originally posted by Metalmanx
...Man. This is actually kinda nice having Cresh on the same side for once. I'm not really used to it. I think we need to head back to Wolverine vs. Spiderman, Cresh. Ya know, so we can be at each others' throats again. 😛And I agree completely, by the way.
(Not directed towards you, Cresh)
Besides, wasn't CN dodging bullets, too? Apparently he can't parry super-powerful machine gun fire from a Metal Gear, he has to dodge them. So, don't go off about how he can parry all sorts of fire when it's clear that he has to dodge at times as well.And then, what's this? CN's moves could then be calculated as well! Let's think about this one now, shall we?
Well yeah, in fact, if you re-read my post, you'll note that I was very careful to specify that CN can parry SMALL-ARMS fire. I never said or implied that he could parry a Metal Gear's gunfire, and in fact I would disagree with someone who said as much, given the fact that he never even attempted to do so.
The point behind all of that was to demonstrate that while Spider-Man may have proven his ability to move rapidly and erratically, he's still been shown to be vulnerable to exceedingly well-placed small-arms fire. By contrast, CN is not. Not even at point-blank range.
This means that, judging by the characters' respective feats, CN's overall defense is more consistent, and he's apparently able to react to a bullet even AFTER it's fired ... whereas Spidey must begin moving before.
As for those who claim that Spidey could deflect bullets if he had anything to deflect them with? BS. Prove it. Daredevil actually has one proven feat in that direction (although it was a single bullet, not rapid gunfire, and in fact he was SAVING SPIDER-MAN when he did it), but Spidey, to my knowledge, does not. If I'm wrong, then I challenge any of you to prove it.
Originally posted by Orestes
Meh. No. Wrong. Spidey's "spider sense" isn't that precise normally. He's BEEN portrayed with it being that precise, sure, but normally, he's most certainly able to be tagged (and has been ... on many occasions). So it's just not as good as you're making it out to be.
Originally posted by Oresteswasn't that what he was doing in that one clip?
Well yeah, in fact, if you re-read my post, you'll note that I was very careful to specify that CN can parry SMALL-ARMS fire. I never said or implied that he could parry a Metal Gear's gunfire, and in fact I would disagree with someone who said as much, given the fact that he never even attempted to do so.
Originally posted by OrestesNot being a primary character and haveing very few showings does this to a person.
The point behind all of that was to demonstrate that while Spider-Man may have proven his ability to move rapidly and erratically, he's still been shown to be vulnerable to exceedingly well-placed small-arms fire. By contrast, CN is not. Not even at point-blank range.[/]quote] So random erratic movement is easier to predict than trained movement?[QUOTE=5000726]Originally posted by Orestes
This means that, judging by the characters' respective feats, CN's overall defense is more consistent
Originally posted by OrestesDodging bullets is not dodging AFTER they are fired, it is actually dodging BEFORE they are fired. It's a matter of predicting the other person's aim, and then dodging the aim, thuis causeing them to miss.
and he's apparently able to react to a bullet even AFTER it's fired ... whereas Spidey must begin moving before.
Spiderman dodges automatically. CN has to put effort in to it.
Even implying that a person goes fast enough to dodge AFTER the bullet ifs fired is ludicrous.
Originally posted by Orestes
As for those who claim that Spidey could deflect bullets if he had anything to deflect them with? BS. Prove it.
It's pretty evident that if he reacts without thinking then if he had something to simply bring up into the way he would be able to.
Daredevil actually has one proven feat in that direction (although it was a single bullet, not rapid gunfire, and in fact he was SAVING SPIDER-MAN when he did it), but Spidey, to my knowledge, does not. If I'm wrong, then I challenge any of you to prove it. [/B][/QUOTE] See above.
Well no, that's not what he was doing in that one clip. He was dodging Metal Gear fire, which as I said, I don't believe he could have parried. Against Snake's pistol, however, he parried.
You seem confused. Please re-read my post.
Also, a single comic scan is meaningless. I could just as easily present Punisher hitting Spider-Man with his gun, but what would that prove? The point is that Spidey's CONSISTENT level of ability is not enough to avoid everything, which is why he has. In fact. Been tagged. Many times.
Originally posted by OrestesI'm serious, in the one scene we see him vibrate and there are several sparks flying off of him, and if you look closely you'll see his sword moving back and forth around in the sparks. He was indeed parrying the Rex bullets.
Well no, that's not what he was doing in that one clip. He was dodging Metal Gear fire, which as I said, I don't believe he could have parried. Against Snake's pistol, however, he parried.
Originally posted by Orestes[ I understood perfectly.
You seem confused. Please re-read my post.
Originally posted by OrestesWouldn't a single showing from MGS also be meaningless?
Also, a single comic scan is meaningless.
Originally posted by OrestesThat you use PIS in your arguments
I could just as easily present Punisher hitting Spider-Man with his gun, but what would that prove?
Originally posted by OrestesWhy do you suppose that is?
The point is that Spidey's CONSISTENT level of ability is not enough to avoid everything,
Originally posted by OrestesPIS, clearly.
which is why he has. In fact. Been tagged. Many times.
I'm serious, in the one scene we see him vibrate and there are several sparks flying off of him, and if you look closely you'll see his sword moving back and forth around in the sparks. He was indeed parrying the Rex bullets.
Well, I would guess that he probably found it too difficult and therefore impractical against larger bullets, then. That's just a guess, though. And in fact I missed that part, both when I played the game myself and when I reviewed the clip here. I'll have to watch it again.
Wouldn't a single showing from MGS also be meaningless?
Well I tell you what -- you get all of CN's other showings, and we'll compare them all and establish a trend. 😉
As for the rest of your argument, it seems to basically boil down to this: "I don't like a lot of what happens with Spider-Man in the comics. So where his actual feats (frequently) disagree with what I believe he can do, I'm right and Marvel is wrong."
And if that's your argument, then I just don't know what else to say to you. If you feel Marvel doesn't know how to present one of its top characters, perhaps you should write to them about it. As for me, I'm going by what the comics say. Forgive me, but I have to hold Marvel comics as a higher authority than you on what Spider-Man is able to do.
Originally posted by OrestesWrong, thats pis pure and simple.
Meh. No. Wrong. Spidey's "spider sense" isn't that precise normally. He's BEEN portrayed with it being that precise, sure, but normally, he's most certainly able to be tagged (and has been ... on many occasions). So it's just not as good as you're making it out to be.
He can detect the direction and evreything, its not the same here, this isn't exactly a comic book, see?
Originally posted by Orestes
Well yeah, in fact, if you re-read my post, you'll note that I was very careful to specify that CN can parry SMALL-ARMS fire. I never said or implied that he could parry a Metal Gear's gunfire, and in fact I would disagree with someone who said as much, given the fact that he never even attempted to do so.The point behind all of that was to demonstrate that while Spider-Man may have proven his ability to move rapidly and erratically, he's still been shown to be vulnerable to exceedingly well-placed small-arms fire. By contrast, CN is not. Not even at point-blank range.
This means that, judging by the characters' respective feats, CN's overall defense is more consistent, and he's apparently able to react to a bullet even AFTER it's fired ... whereas Spidey must begin moving before.
As for those who claim that Spidey could deflect bullets if he had anything to deflect them with? BS. Prove it. Daredevil actually has one proven feat in that direction (although it was a single bullet, not rapid gunfire, and in fact he was SAVING SPIDER-MAN when he did it), but Spidey, to my knowledge, does not. If I'm wrong, then I challenge any of you to prove it.
Clearly, Marvel would have to give Spiderman a sword in order for us to prove this, you're just being frustrating on purpose. You know very well that given Spiderman's abilities, if given a sword he'd be able to do the same thing that Cyber Ninja can. Probably even better seeing as he as a Spider sense that alerts him to the exact direction and location of the attack. That, coupled with his reflexes, speed, and strength, would easily allow Spidey to deflect any small-arm fire coming his way as well.
But, Marvel hasn't given him a sword.....yet.
Like Jin said, you keep referring to one clip, yet it's wrong for us to refer to this one comic scene for Spidey's support. Actually, for your own survival in this, I think it's best not to get us to scan as many supporting scenes as possible, because it would only greatly defeat your argument. Especially since you have maybe...what...3 or 4 video clips of Cyber Ninja? I mean, we could get a lot I'm sure. I don't think you want that. All that proof in one spot...
Another thing that goes along with the limited amount of evidence you have for CN. After many many comics, hundreds of them even, is when Punisher was able to tag Spidey with the tranquilizer dart. And you're going off about how if he was able to do it, then CN can.
As soon as CN has ANYWHERE NEAR as many appearances as Spidey does, he will get tagged many times as well.
But seeing as he won't, I suppose it's safe to assume that Punisher will never have to shoot CN. Cuz he'd find a way to hit him, too.
And then kill Snake.