Jesus Christ

Originally posted by Jury
I believe in God. I believe in Jesus. But I don't believe that God and Jesus made up One the same God. I don't even believe that Jesus is the only true God Himself. I don't believe as well that Jesus is also God aside from the Father who is also God.

The doctrine of the Trinity is encapsulated in Matthew 28:19, where Jesus instructs the apostles: "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit."

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
The doctrine of the Trinity is encapsulated in Matthew 28:19, where Jesus instructs the apostles: "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit."

The term "Trinity" did not exist until Tertullian coined it in the early third century. Although it is not found in the Bible, most Bible scholars agree that its meaning is clearly expressed.

What I mean is, did the verse refer to the Trinity when it say "in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit"? [that is, if the original verse really say as it is 🙂 ]

By simply saying "in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit", does it necessarily mean Trinity?

And what is Trinity, then, by the way? How was it defined?

Originally posted by Jury
What I mean is, did the verse refer to the Trinity when it say "in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit"? [that is, if the original verse really say as it is 🙂 ]

By simply saying "in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit", does it necessarily mean Trinity?

And what is Trinity, then, by the way? How was it defined?

Are you asking what the Trinity is or how the Early Church fathers came to the conclusion that a Trinity exists?

Rephrasing question: How did you relate the verse Matthew 28:19 to the doctrine of the Trinity?

If the verse was rendered correctly, does the phrase "in the name of the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit" necessarily mean Trinity?

Originally posted by Jury
Rephrasing question: How did you relate the verse Matthew 28:19 to the doctrine of the Trinity?

If the verse was rendered correctly, does the phrase "in the name of the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit" necessarily mean Trinity?

No, on its own it does not. However, when combined with other passages etc it does point to the Trinity.

So it does not. Thanks.

And nowhere in the Bible it does say that "the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit are one God" as how Trinity was defined. Is that correct? Or you can show us the verses as well.

OK. Here we go

Verses to suggest Jesus was God

"I and the Father are one" John 10:30

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God...The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth...No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known." John 1:1-18

"I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!" John 8:58

"Thomas said to him, 'My Lord and my God!" John 20:28

"Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death—even death on a cross!" Philippians 2:5–8

"For by him [Jesus] all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him." Colossians 1:16

"while we wait for the blessed hope—the glorious appearing of our great God and Saviour, Jesus Christ." Titus 2:13

"We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true—even in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life." John 5:20

Old Testament says: "I, even I, am the LORD, and apart from me there is no savior." So if Jesus of the New Testament is the Saviour as he said, then he must be God.

Oh, common verses, indeed.

I've read all of those verses and none says about Trinity and/or none proves that "the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit" are one God.

🙂

I'll take it one at a time

I and my Father are one
John 10:30

The verse is not claiming that Jesus and the Father are one God. There is no reason to take this verse to mean that Christ was saying that he and the Father make up "one God". The phrase was a common one, and even today if someone used it, people would know exactly what he meant - he and his father are very much alike.

When Paul wrote to the Corinthians about his ministry there, he said that he had planted the seed and Apollos had watered it. Then he said, "he who plants and he who waters are one" (1 Cor. 3:8 - KJV). In the Greek texts, the wording of Paul is the same as that in John 10:30, yet no one claims that Paul and Apollos make up "one being". Furthermore, the NIV translates 1 Corinthians 3:8 as "he who plants and he who waters have one purpose". Why translate the phrase as "are one" in one place, but as "have one purpose" in another place? In this case, translating the same phrase in two different ways obscures the clear meaning of Christ's statement in John 10:30: Christ always did the Father's will; he and God have "one purpose".

Christ uses the concept of "being one" in other places, and from them one can see that "one purpose" is what is meant. John 11:52 says Jesus was to die to make all God's children "one". In John 17:11, 21 and 22, Jesus prayed to God that his followers would be "one" as he and God were "one". We think it is obvious that Jesus was not praying that all his followers would become one being or "substance" just as he and his Father were one being or "substance".

The context of John 10:30 shows conclusively that Jesus was referring to the fact that he had the same purpose as God did. If you read the preceding verses, Jesus was speaking about his ability to keep the "sheep", the believers, who came to him. He said that no one could take them out of his hand and that no one could take them out of his Father's hand. Then he said that he and the Father were "one", i.e., had one purpose, which was to keep and protect the sheep.

🙂

Oh no...its some sort of mormon...

Mormon? That's all you can say? Mormons believe in Jesus as God as well.

Well god and I are one too. 😄

Or it could be one of mind.i.e. thought, not a person.

1 out of 8 verses quoted is down...
7 way more...

Let's try...

While we wait for the blessed hope—the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ.
Titus 2:13

Actually there are scholars debate the exact translation of this verse, and the two sides of that debate are seen in the various translations. Some scholars believe that "glory" is used in an adjectival sense, and that the verse should be translated as above in the NIV. Versions that follow suit are the KJV and the Amplified Version. Many other versions, such as the Revised Version, American Standard Version, NAS, Moffatt, RSV, NRSV, Douay, New American Bible, NEB, etc., translate the verse very differently. The NASB is a typical example. It reads,

"…looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus."

The difference between the translations is immediately apparent. In the NIV, etc., we await the "glorious appearing" of God, while in the NAS and other versions we await the "appearing of the glory" of God our Savior (this is a use of "Savior" where the word is applied in the context to God, not Christ), i.e., we are looking for the "glory" of God, which is stated clearly as being "Jesus Christ".

Of course, the glory will come at the appearing, but Scripture says clearly that both the glory of the Son and the glory of the Father will appear as stated in Luke 9:26.

God’s Word also teaches that when Christ comes, he will come with his Father's glory:

"For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory"
Matt. 16:27

Keeping in mind that what is revealed in other places in the Bible about a certain event often clarifies what is being portrayed in any given verse, it becomes apparent from other scriptures referring to Christ's coming that the Bible is not trying to portray God and Christ as one God. In this case, the glory of God that we are waiting for is Jesus Christ.

It has been stated that the grammar of Titus 2:13 forces the interpretation that Jesus is God because of the Granville Sharp Rule of grammar. That is not the case, however. The Granville Sharp rule has been successfully challenged, and an extensive critique of it occurs in Ephesians 5:5. The point is that when Scripture refers to "our Great God and Savior, Jesus Christ," it can mean two beings—both the "Great God," and the "Savior," Jesus Christ.

The context of the verse helps us to understand its meaning. The verse is talking about saying "no" to ungodliness while we wait for the appearing of Jesus Christ, who is the glory of God. Its purpose is not to expound the doctrine of the Trinity in any way, nor is there any reason to assume that Paul would be making a Trinitarian reference here. It makes perfect sense for Scripture to call Christ "the glory of God" and for the Bible to exhort us to say "no" to ungodliness in light of the coming of the Lord, which will e quickly followed by the Judgment (Matt. 25:31-33; Luke 21:36).

🙂 2 down ... 6 more.

While we wait for the blessed hope—the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ.
Titus 2:13

Would that cross reference with Malachi 4:2?

But for you who fear My name, the sun of righteousness will rise with healing in its wings; and you will go forth and skip about like calves from the stall.

"For the Sun of Man is going to come in his Father's glory"
Matt. 16:27

Originally posted by Deja~vu
Well god and I are one too. 😄

Or it could be one of mind.i.e. thought, not a person.

I am but a small voice
I am but a small dream
The fragrance of a flow'r
In the unpolluted air

I am but a small voice
I am but a small dream
To smile upon the sun
Be free to dance and sing
Be free to sing my song to ev`ryone

Chorus:
Come young citizens of the world
We are one, we are one
Come young citizens of the world
We are one, we are one

We have one hope
We have one dream
And with one voice
We sing...

^^ You found the truth.. 😱

Originally posted by Jury
Mormon? That's all you can say? Mormons believe in Jesus as God as well.

Are you Mormon?

Of course, not. I'm a monotheist Christian! 🙂