Originally posted by Bardock42
Well, or people with very different moral beliefs...or none at all.....
People who believe something like that is good, are idiots.. they should be punched in the face for being such assholes... Although thats more my opinion then fact, but still. I have to agree with Whirl on that, people that justify it suck...
Funny thing now is, we had a huge debate about nothing because we all agree, there was just a lot of misunderstandings going on 😛
Originally posted by Bardock42
Oh PVS I respect you and all but that is jsut total Bullshit......the way Germany deals with their past is unreasonably greater than any other countries history........we get Taught aboot it in School every year, it is not as taboo as you might think io t is.....you know the Family Guy joke with the german guy that doesn't want Brian to talk aboot the War is funny qand all, but it is rather untrue in germany.....we del with it, we talk aboot it, ...but there are people here, like me for example that think, sure remember is allright but we should be able to stop apologizing one day......
points you missed:
-i never insinuated that germany should apologise. i say that the world should stop demanding an apology. in doing that, this hyper-defensiveness which you have been making a prime example of can cease. i think that is the root cause of all this political awkwardness.
-a lesson in school means jack shit. a textbook 'matter of fact' lesson is not enough. im referring to the public acceptance that germany is just part of the club, with a dark shitty past just like the rest of us. not simply by acknowledging it, but by lightening up and not treating it as such a taboo topic in public.
-just an example of what i mean: i distinctly remember an entire nation being irrationally offended when a pro wrestler by the name of john bradshaw made a mocking nazi salute at a wrestling show in germany. it was simply to fit his 'heel' character as its common to get the crowd riled up and booing by taking jabs at them. but they made such a stink about it that he was fired from his job as a fox stock analyst. why?
basically the message was "YOU WILL NOT BRING THAT UP EVER!!!!!!"
If I would yell 9/11 ROCKED in the US with a lot of people around me there are going to be consequences too. Or Slavery rocked in an area with lots of blacks...
Things let that aren't liked, yeah it should change but its not going to be easy to accept something like that. Your first point is most important though, once that happens the rest will follow.
Originally posted by Fishy
If I would yell 9/11 ROCKED in the US with a lot of people around me there are going to be consequences too. Or Slavery rocked in an area with lots of blacks...
actually you'd be surprised at the extent of jabs taken.
he wasnt like "the holocaust rocked". it was more like "you bunch of nazis".
just like when they go to france, they'll make fun of them for being conquered by germany in record time, or britain for getting whooped by the u.s. twice.
its just for show and not meant as a "message". the only message he was giving was "everyone hate me. i'm a heel. this is my job"
-The apologizing was not in regard of your post but more of Whirlies thread
-We, at least where I live we can talk aboot it openly, with kmy friends, my parents, teachers.....I don't really think you have any clue how it actually is dealt with in germany but sure keep talking aboot stuff you don't know.....I do too...a lot 😛
-I am not aware of this occurence, and I really don't agree with it if it happened, but in fact we have laws here that don't allow us to use the Nazi Salute, use the Swastika or cheer "Heil Hitler" .....that'S just the way it is...and if someone does that in a broadcasted show in germany he is rather likely to get in trouble just like someone who steals or kills someone, besides what the people here may think aboot it.....
Like what would happen to a white Wrestler in that in a TV Shows screams at some black people in the Audience "******" ...... not to forget what happened to people in your country in the past who burned a flag.....there are laws in every country other countries might find strange, but just because something like that happens doesn't ean that Germans don't deal with their past.
Originally posted by Bardock42
Like what would happen to a white Wrestler in that in a TV Shows screams at some black people in the Audience "******" ...... not to forget what happened to people in your country in the past who burned a flag.....there are laws in every country other countries might find strange, but just because something like that happens doesn't ean that Germans don't deal with their past.
actually, during the first gulf war, a wresteler names sergent slaughter turned heel and played the part of a turncoat gone iraqi. (he was a gung ho "USA ROCKS!!!" wrestler before hand, and then it was "USA SUCKS!!! DOWN WITH AMERICA!!! etc)
there was no public outcry, everyone just had fun with it and understood that it was all just for show. they understood that seargent slaughter was just some guy playing the role of an evil character and that was that (with ecxeption to a handfull of dumbass rednecks who bombarded him with death threats)
Originally posted by PVS
actually, during the first gulf war, a wresteler names sergent slaughter turned heel and played the part of a turncoat gone iraqi. (he was a gung ho "USA ROCKS!!!" wrestler before hand.there was no public outcry, everyone just had fun with it and understood that it was all just for show. they understood that seargent slaughter was just some guy playing the role of an evil character and that was that (with ecxeption to a handfull of dumbass rednecks who bombarded him with death threats)
And you really don't see the differences between the two cases? ....really.....not?
Originally posted by Bardock42
And you really don't see the differences between the two cases? ....really.....not?
the fact that we were at war and our troops were overseas and we werent sure if they would ever come home? sure it turned out to be minimal u.s. casualties, but it was quite a touchy topic then, since it was happening at the moment.
if you ran out in the streets and carried on like that you would have probably been beaten by an angry mob.
the point: it was just a show. it was just some guy playing the role of "bad guy"
to bash him would be like bashing alec guinness for playing the role of hitler or edward norton for playing the roll of a nazi skinhead in american history x.
it was just a staged play ffs.
Well I can see your point and I understand it's a show.....but you have to see that it is first of all illegal and second a really, really touchy subject since many people might interpret it as being called nazis...and not talking aboot it is banned but calling a german nazi might just not be the best idea.......last generation at least....
but see bardock thats the problem.
its SHOULDNT be illegal.
you know why?
its much much easier to pick a nazi out of a crown when they do that salute.
in the U.S., the KKK are allowed to exist in public. and guess what? if a minority gets lynched the authorities know exactly where to investigate.
if you force any group into secrecy, they become far more dangerous me thinks.
Originally posted by PVS
but see bardock thats the problem.its SHOULDNT be illegal.
you know why?
its much much easier to pick a nazi out of a crown when they do that salute.
in the U.S., the KKK are allowed to exist in public. and guess what? if a minority gets lynched the authorities know exactly where to investigate.
if you force any group into secrecy, they become far more dangerous me thinks.
I totally agree with you, but saying that because it is illegal germans don't ever talk aboot it is a little flawed......
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
Okay, you gotta explain this "aboot" thing to me. Well, you don't "gotta"...but I'd appreciate it.
I am really not sure aboot that......I started it here on KMC and it is a homage to the Canadian way of talking....or something like that....maybe....but it kind of comes without thinking now so...it stays....
Originally posted by Bardock42
I am really not sure aboot that......I started it here on KMC and it is a homage to the Canadian way of talking....or something like that....maybe....but it kind of comes without thinking now so...it stays....
Oh, I'm not saying it needs to go...and while I assumed it was canadian in nature, I was thrown by the fact that you're German.
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
Oh, I'm not saying it needs to go...and while I assumed it was canadian in nature, I was thrown by the fact that you're German.
Eah, I am just telling everyone that it stays......and whoever said I was german? ....oh wait......I did......well......I lived in the US with three Canadians and others.....