Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Luke during his time of rage wasted Vader. Saying Vader wasn't trying is just an excuse. See, I can do that too.Maul was ambused by Sand People as he was leaving Tatootine. Thinking about this more, I remember that no one really goes into a fight at their peak, so I'm not going to count that as a advantage.
Still, Qui-gon was the second Jedi Master that Maul had killed.
To the guy who said Cin wasn't trying to kill Anakin, BS. Anakin had gone to the Darkside. It would be Cin's duty to do everything he could to defeat him. So many of you think of the Cin in the game. That one is uber, but the canon one seen in the movie isn't as good. The movie shows him fighting Anakin. The book also says Anakin beat him(doesn't say how badly.). Are you going to tell me that you are going to take a video game that rivals SS in going against the storyline, or a book that you don't like?
Your first can be debated.
Okay. So he was attacked and wounded by bloody Tusken Raiders, who, might I add, were slaughtered like animals by a 20 year-old Anakin. Doesn't bode well for him.
Fine. But that doesn't change the fact that Maul was, must I say it again?, matched blow for blow by Obi-Wan Kenobi as a Padawan.
Well, I have my doubts that Drallig would be eager to attack Anakin, the Hero With No Fear, the star of the Jedi Order. He would have been astounded and baffled beyond comprehension. But yes, after the realization of the truth, he would have fought hard.
How can you argue that the movie Cin isn't good? Jesus, you only saw a two second hologram consisting of as many swings. And the book Drallig is shown as fending off clones until Anakin comes in and chops him through the shoulder; he's murdered easily. The game Cin gives Anakin hell, the best fight he has in the game after Obi-Wan. However, the latter two absolutely cannot be considered in these kinds of threads because they contradict the movie like it's their job.
So, I'm not going to take any of these sources, because the only one that is acceptably canonical is vague beyond description, and the other two are, well. . . Lets' just say that I don't need to get into this again. All we have to go on is common sense and inferences. Cin Drallig was said to have abilities in the class of the Council members, and was the instructor of hundreds of Jedi in saber skills, including Obi-Wan Kenobi. Maul was defeated by a Padawan, or at least matched blow for blow, and was wounded by rag-garbed barbarians with pointed sticks. Cin Drallig would crush him.
Luke during his time of rage wasted Vader. Saying Vader wasn't trying is just an excuse. See, I can do that too.
Do what too? Piss me off? Yeah, and quite well at that. Always got something witty and nitpicky to say if you don't agree with me. But when you do agree with me, I could say Person A wins over Person B because of planetary alignment and you wouldn't argue to differ. If you're gonna try and come off as some seasoned debater, be neutral, don't be partial in your "use". And yes, Luke wasted Vader. The fight seems pretty contrived to more than a few people. Maul, in the meantime, did not mean to get put on his ass like that. If he did, he must be -really good-. So please, don't spout off unless you want to combat everything I say every single time, okay?
Maul was ambused by Sand People as he was leaving Tatootine. Thinking about this more, I remember that no one really goes into a fight at their peak, so I'm not going to count that as a advantage.
Where is the in-movie evidence that his leg was wounded? How is it that Maul got ambushed by Sand people, but Obi-Wan can ward them off without lifting a finger, and Anakin as of AOTC can kill a whole village of them? Is AOTC Anakin better than Maul?
Still, Qui-gon was the second Jedi Master that Maul had killed.
Okay.
To the guy who said Cin wasn't trying to kill Anakin, BS. Anakin had gone to the Darkside. It would be Cin's duty to do everything he could to defeat him. So many of you think of the Cin in the game. That one is uber, but the canon one seen in the movie isn't as good. The movie shows him fighting Anakin. The book also says Anakin beat him(doesn't say how badly.). Are you going to tell me that you are going to take a video game that rivals SS in going against the storyline, or a book that you don't like?
Who said Cin wasn't trying to kill Anakin? Not me. But it is a possibility when you consider that Cin Drallig was training younglings and possibly trying to save their lives. In particular, the two who are shown posing with him in NG's promo pics as Cin. But my choices have nothing to do with the video game. If anything, YOU cited the video game quite recently in the Risk thread when talking about Yoda. Practice what you preach, Glentract.
Originally posted by Deus Ex
[B]Luke during his time of rage wasted Vader. Saying Vader wasn't trying is just an excuse. See, I can do that too.Do what too? Piss me off? Yeah, and quite well at that. Always got something witty and nitpicky to say if you don't agree with me. But when you do agree with me, I could say Person A wins over Person B because of planetary alignment and you wouldn't argue to differ. If you're gonna try and come off as some seasoned debater, be neutral, don't be partial in your "use". And yes, Luke wasted Vader. The fight seems pretty contrived to more than a few people. Maul, in the meantime, did not mean to get put on his ass like that. If he did, he must be -really good-. So please, don't spout off unless you want to combat everything I say every single time, okay?
(I've said mutiple times that I'm a crap debater. At least I admit it[Don't get me wrong, you, Nai, Illustrious are all FAR better debaters than me. By saying at least I admit it, I'm not saying you are no good and not admiting it. Didn't want that to come across wrong. lol.] I not exactly sure what you mean by saying that if you say A>B I agree. PM me on that or something.)
Maul was ambused by Sand People as he was leaving Tatootine. Thinking about this more, I remember that no one really goes into a fight at their peak, so I'm not going to count that as a advantage.Where is the in-movie evidence that his leg was wounded? How is it that Maul got ambushed by Sand people, but Obi-Wan can ward them off without lifting a finger, and Anakin as of AOTC can kill a whole village of them? Is AOTC Anakin better than Maul?
(It's from a book. What in the movie disproves it? He was ambushed. Anakin kind of ambushed the Sand People when he chopped through the hut wall and instantly killed two of them. We also don't know how big the groups of Sand People were. I already said I wasn't going to count this as an advantage because Obi-wan and Qui-gon weren't at their peak when they entered the battle either.)
Still, Qui-gon was the second Jedi Master that Maul had killed.Okay.
To the guy who said Cin wasn't trying to kill Anakin, BS. Anakin had gone to the Darkside. It would be Cin's duty to do everything he could to defeat him. So many of you think of the Cin in the game. That one is uber, but the canon one seen in the movie isn't as good. The movie shows him fighting Anakin. The book also says Anakin beat him(doesn't say how badly.). Are you going to tell me that you are going to take a video game that rivals SS in going against the storyline, or a book that you don't like?Who said Cin wasn't trying to kill Anakin? Not me. But it is a possibility when you consider that Cin Drallig was training younglings and possibly trying to save their lives. In particular, the two who are shown posing with him in NG's promo pics as Cin. But my choices have nothing to do with the video game. If anything, YOU cited the video game quite recently in the Risk thread when talking about Yoda. Practice what you preach, Glentract.
(Okay, I sited the video game. A screw-up on my part. I'm not perfect. Woohoo. I never said you said Cin wasn't trying to Anakin. Wouldn't killing the guy who was trying to kill the Younglings be a good way to save them?)[/B]
That is one ugly post to reply to. You quoted the whole thing.
Alright, first off- you came off sounding entirely way too sure of yourself, and I didn't particularly appreciate the jab. If I'm operating under a faulty brain, I'm sure I would have found out by now. If you want to point out anything you think is faulty logic to me and I've said it, spare the trauma and mention it casually. Sarcasm and such will just antagonize me, and I'll reply in kind. So yeah, you want to debate, even if it's not the best debating in the land, I'm cool with that. But when you start jabbing, I'll jab back. And it really could be avoided.
Second, if his leg was wounded, he should have limped in the movie. Period. But he didn't limp; he was moving like a Capoeira master in some parts, flipping and twirling for no reason. If you're wounded, you don't flip like some magrick ningra in battle unless it's absolutely vital. Maul didn't have any leg problems at all. Even as a novel source, this seems to me to be some "excuse" created to explain why Maul is so good despite being in two pieces in Naboo somewhere.
And yes, a good way to defend the younglings would have been to kill Anakin. But of course everyone knew and trusted Anakin, and the clone troopers, whom they trusted, attacked in force. All in all, this was a disasterous, confusing moment for everyone in the temple, and it is likely that Cin was trying to defend the younglings from Anakin AND from the clone troopers, and was killed in the process. This does not mean that Cin Drallig sucks; this means the guy got pretty much shafted and wasn't in the OT, so his fate was sealed.
Originally posted by Deus Ex
That is one ugly post to reply to. You quoted the whole thing.And yes, a good way to defend the younglings would have been to kill Anakin. But of course everyone knew and trusted Anakin, and the clone troopers, whom they trusted, attacked in force. All in all, this was a disasterous, confusing moment for everyone in the temple, and it is likely that Cin was trying to defend the younglings from Anakin AND from the clone troopers, and was killed in the process. This does not mean that Cin Drallig sucks; this means the guy got pretty much shafted and wasn't in the OT, so his fate was sealed.
Whoops. Didn't mean to quote it all.
Everyone did trust Anakin for a while, but in ep3, the Council failed to trust him any longer. Cin seems to be influental enough to hear of this from the Council, or at least begin to distrust him on his own.
I think Cin IS really good. Top ten of his time, after(not in order) Yoda, Mace, Dooku, Sidious, Obi-wan, Anakin, and possibly Plo Koon. If you count people from 1 & 2, then Maul(obviously I would say so) and possibly Yaddle(I don't know a lot about her, but I've heard she was quite powerful. I also used to think Qui-gon was better, but then I read in one book at Qui-gon had a hard time against a Togorian Pirate, and that lowered my opinion on him a little(I read that book only a few days ago, so my opinion is of Qui-gon is likly to rise again; it's a shock effect type thing.)
Togorians aren't pirates, unless they're female. Male Togorians live savage, simple lives apart from their females. They have large lizardlike gliding animals that they hunt from atop of, while female Togorians live in large cities and are exceptional pilots and machinists.
If Qui-Gon fought a Togorian in any case, it would be a tough battle. Togorians are fast, large, savage and strong.
I think it was a male. I guess it's a case of common SW discrepancy.
I know Togorians are good. I've heard(when I say "I've heard" that means I don't presently have a source, or at least a semi-reputable one) that they were able to defend their world successfully from the Mandalorians and therefor were highly respected by the Mandalorians and many joined their ranks.
This was a huge Togorian though. It was twice as big as a man and four times as big. Still, I think it should have been little difficulty for a Jedi Master. It got a good hit with a vibro-axe on Qui-gon's solider that was several inches deep. It was only killed when it was sucked into space.
well to the person who said that we are forgetting the Anakin was the chosen one, first what does that have to do with this thread? Second, me and Janus and some other people long ago at the very start of this versus thread (yes I remember when it was made) completely disproved the theory of the chosen one beats all. For proof I ask you if TPM Anakin could beat Maul? Also, Anakin in AotC was beaten by Dooku, also in the clone wars TV sersis he was nearly beaten by Asajj and got a scar from her. Finally, in RotS, he lost to Obi-Wan, he is not invincible. All that being the chosen one means is that you can kill Sidious, nothing more. Anakin never defeated Sidious by skill anyway, all he did was betray an old man who trusted him and he still was killed. The prophecy never says that Anakin will waste all, it is not true so please do not say it.
There, now that I have said that, onto the thread. First, to whomever said that Cin would win because he was a legend and considered equal to many council members. Well, actually, Qui-Gon was the same way, he was a legend, considered one of the best duellists in the Order and he would have been on the council if he had not been so rebellious. I have more to say, but I have to go right now, anyway, I hope that this helps
Wooooooah...Glentract...you should better READ before using arguments.
a)
Qui-Gon was the first and only Jedi that was ever killed by Maul. Both Jedi (a Master and a Padawan) killed themselves to stop Maul. The master blew a speeder-bike up with his lightsaber and Maul was nearly killed and the Padawan also blew something up with her lightsaber and again Maul was nearly killed.
I won't argue that he could have killed them both but that doesn't really matter since we don't know how good they were with a lightsaber. Only thing I know is that the Padawan got defeated by pre-TPM Obi-Wan in serveral practice fights. So if the Padawan is weaker than the Padawan of Qui-Gon you MAY assume that the Master of the Padawan was also weaker than Qui-Gon.
b)
Where you got the idea from that Maul did fight with injured leg ? It might have been injured on Tatooine but may I remind you that the Jedi did fly from Tatooine to Coruscant, followed by the events there and then did fly back to Naboo before facing Maul. Having Bacta everywhere that can heal injuries within hours while people with real bad injuries will recover within days (see Luke in ESB) it would be very unusual that Maul will face Jedi without healing that injury before.
And if a Tusken can hurt Maul he's even weaker than I thought if you keep in mind that AotC Anakin was able to waste an entire camp of them on his own.
c)
Cin Drallig being killed by one blow from Anakin ? Nope. We see how the fight starts in the holovid recording (and this is Anakin vs Drallig) and we still hear that there is a lightsaber fight going on until you can see Anakin on his knees in front of Sidious. So...we can't really tell how Cin Drallig died and how long the fight did take. Anakin could have killed him in seconds or it could have taken two hours. Sidious could have toasted Drallig from behind and he could even have been shot by Clone Troopers. Even the book only tells us that he was killed by a lightsaber (so Anakin finally killed him) but we don't know the circumstances and we don't know how many time Anakin did need to do it.
Now Dooku himself thought of Cin Drallig in one league with Mace, Yoda and himself (when he thinks of people that would be able to defeat Grievous in a lightsaber fight) and that is a league Maul didn't even come close to. So Cin Drallig would win a fight against Maul - without a doubt.