Originally posted by ReverendMakashi
Why do you insist on being so hostile? So what I like Koon better, or I feel Drallig is an over hyped punk. . .
How is that hostile, Makashi? More importantly, why do you seem to have an attitude with everything I say? Why does everyone, actually? The only people who -don't- jump all over everything I say aren't even online right now.
Point is, if you say that Plo Koon wins becase he has a Star Wars.com profile, it's pretty poor reasoning. Revan doesn't have a profile but Bandon and Malak do. Would he lose to either of them? Wait... he beat both of them. Funny, that doesn't follow.
Cin wasn't alone against him though either. Although only two Padawans were mentioned, I don't think it is smart to assume that they were the only ones. You're right, it isn't the clearest photo in the world. There could easily have been ten other Jedi just out of frame. If we go by the game that is what makes most people think(besides a one liner from Dooku) that and Cin is so good, Cin was standing alone, as was Anakin.
If we do go by the Dooku quote(which I think is worse than the movie clip, just as short and not very comprehensive.), then we could also say that in JA, Luke was quoted as being as good as Exar Kun. He obviously wasn't, seeing as Kun wasted him two weeks later. Cin sounds better than Anakin in the quote, but Anakin defeated him.
Originally posted by Deus Ex
How is that hostile, Makashi? More importantly, why do you seem to have an attitude with everything I say? Why does everyone, actually? The only people who -don't- jump all over everything I say aren't even online right now.Point is, if you say that Plo Koon wins becase he has a Star Wars.com profile, it's pretty poor reasoning. Revan doesn't have a profile but Bandon and Malak do. Would he lose to either of them? Wait... he beat both of them. Funny, that doesn't follow.
I don't have an attitude to everything you say. I just feel that you have some type of raw seaving hate for me. The thing is that Revan was at least in a canonical game not some un-canon character overpowering game. . .
Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Janus, the reason that I personally am so critical of some of what you say; I don't think I jump over all of it; is because unless someone does, then lots of people(Avis for one) will almost always instantly consider it fact, even if there are reasonable arguments to be made against it.
That's correct. It is already annoying that people state some stuff like facts and it's even more annoying that people think there is always certainty to who would be winner in this forum.
Sci-fi is just left to our own interpretation most of the time. 🙁
First off, stop ragging on Janus. Makashi, you're being ridiculously sensitive. He's making a point, and a valid one. You can't base reasoning off of opinion and expect to be taken seriously. Glentract, thanks for keeping a cool, and the rest of you with no respect or intelligence, shove off.
Now, Dooku's word is all we have here, but it works. He states four people who would utterly destroy the General if he were to fight like he was at the time. There are none othe rthan these four mentioned. The Count says that he would pity Grievous should he fight a Council member with those attacks. Grievous was slacking, and Dooku reprimanded him. Common sense people.
Next, Anakin. The reason he was not on the list was because of Dooku's own personal feelings of denial. If you've read the book, he reveals in his thoughts that he actually fears and dreads the idea that Anakin may have become more powerful than the Sith, that he had become a warrior who would destroy them. Dooku is denying Anakin's skill and power, and this is made very clear throughout the book.
And now I would like to, er, debate, as you do.
-- What do you know about Plo Koon that makes him so great?
-- How do you know that he is such a superb duelist?
-- Why do you think he is all of a sudden an unbeatable warrior?
I could go on, but I think I've made my point.
Well, Im sure dooku himself did not know the entire council, because there were, of course, new people added, as well as jedi he had no affiliation with. Who knows if he knew Plo Koon or Kit Fisto.. or anyone else..
What do you know about Cin drallig that makes him a great duelist...saying dooku explained how CIn could beat GG doesnt mean anything... Anakin could say he was the strongest jedi, yet he lost to Obi Wan.
He has been around since even before TPM, and he had at least been in combat, as well as being the head general of many attacks and invasions. Cin drallig did nothing, but train younger deulists. Thats really all we know about him.
Plo Koon is not unbeatable, there are many who would slaughter him, but saying Cin is way better just because dooku says he would beat GG, does not automatically make him the better choice. Dooku said he became more powerful than even yoda, yet we all know this is not true. So you cant trust what dooku says most of the time...
IMO, Plo Koon would be a formitable opponent. If there was more info on CIn then i would consider supporting him..
Those are two completly different things.
Dooku thinks he has become more powerful then Yoda he is overconfident.
Dooku knows that Cin could take GG, its a fact.
Not everything Dooku says is right but he is right here, only four can defeat GG for sure. Obi, Mace, Yoda and Cin... The others can't, meaning Kin is a great fighter. No matter what you think.
Now of coures this is another one of those fun debates, quotes and logic say Kin wins. Evidence does not, what do you trust more? Your choice.
Well, Im sure dooku himself did not know the entire council, because there were, of course, new people added, as well as jedi he had no affiliation with. Who knows if he knew Plo Koon or Kit Fisto.. or anyone else..
He knew. For one thing, Dooku was a Jedi Master until within a year after the death of Qui-Gon Jinn. PLo Koon was on the council then. Also,
Dooku was keen on saber technique. He's easily one of the best in the Order. He noted those four for a reason. And he omitted the others... again, for a reason.
What do you know about Cin drallig that makes him a great duelist...saying dooku explained how CIn could beat GG doesnt mean anything... Anakin could say he was the strongest jedi, yet he lost to Obi Wan.
Well, for one, all of the evidence in favor of Plo Koon doesn't give us a clear measure of his ability. He hasn't squared off with any dangerous foes in melee, and the Order's greatest swordsman besides Yoda doesn't even consider him a challenge for Grievious, whom Oi-Wan pwned. Point is, it's easier to believe that Cin can win because he is an elder swordsman and trainer of many.
He has been around since even before TPM, and he had at least been in combat, as well as being the head general of many attacks and invasions. Cin drallig did nothing, but train younger deulists. Thats really all we know about him.
Thank you for admitting PLo Koon was around before TPM. Thus, Dooku would know of him. And considering the ridiculously low lifespan of Kel Dors, it's likely that Cin trained him.
Also, being a general doesn't mean he fought any lightsaber opponents. Virtually, there were none in TPM for him to fight.
Plo Koon is not unbeatable, there are many who would slaughter him, but saying Cin is way better just because dooku says he would beat GG, does not automatically make him the better choice. Dooku said he became more powerful than even yoda, yet we all know this is not true. So you cant trust what dooku says most of the time...
Cin may not be tremendously better. But I think overall he would be better. And Dooku in that case had little reason to lie. Considering that the author of the book (James Luceno) is one of the best EU writers of all time and wrote at least one Visual Dictionary, I would -hope- his works would be a decent source here.
IMO, Plo Koon would be a formitable opponent. If there was more info on CIn then i would consider supporting him..
Fair enough. I disagree, but I've ranted about this before.