Can a "good" Jedi, (any class) use Force lighting?

Furthermore, there's a difference between fighting and defending. The lightsaber, even more than Force lightning, is a tool only good for spreading death and destruction. What possible rationalization could support jedi wielding it?

The time spent gaining so much skill in its use could instead be spent gaining more knowledge of the Force itself -- its non-violent and/or defensive applications. Or even learning the use of stunning, non-lethal weaponry. But the lightsaber ... the lightsaber is the ultimate expression of uncompromising violence. It has no stun setting. It's like a disruptor for swordfighters. It has no place in the hands of people whose function is to bring peace.

Originally posted by Orestes
Furthermore, there's a difference between fighting and defending. The lightsaber, even more than Force lightning, is a tool only good for spreading death and destruction. What possible rationalization could support jedi wielding it?

The time spent gaining so much skill in its use could instead be spent gaining more knowledge of the Force itself -- its non-violent and/or defensive applications. Or even learning the use of stunning, non-lethal weaponry. But the lightsaber ... the lightsaber is the ultimate expression of uncompromising violence. It has no stun setting. It's like a disruptor for swordfighters. It has no place in the hands of people whose function is to bring peace.

Agreed. This is my point, but since I believe in a bit of Idealistic bullshit, I'll just sit back and leave it at this.

Idealistic bullshit. There is no way the Jedi can stand up against a threat like the Sith without weapons. A lightsaber is the perfect weapon.

"Not more powerful, the Dark side. Only faster." Wasn't it something like that that Yoda said? Curious that the best defense of the lightsaber puts it firmly in the "only faster" category.

The best defence period is not getting hit.

Its impossible..

Look if the Jedi were more powerful then the Sith, if the Jedi could block Sith attacks. If the Jedi were really gods then yes what you say could happen. But even then the casualty's were enormous. Fact is however that they need weapons to defend themselves and others.

In an Ideal world what you would want them to do would be true, but the Jedi don't live in that world. They need weapons. Everybody fighting for something needs weapons, especially when fighting Sith.

Originally posted by Deus Ex
I suppose you can look at it like that, yeah. Fighting when one has to is easily understandable. But paladins and white knights are supposed to uphold their ideals above all else. They're actually bound by their code, principles, and pride. They are virtually inflexible. Ideally, they would be pacifist. Since idealism is a dead line of thought, the next best thing would be what? Rigid code by which to live, right?

It would not be remotely ideal for Jedi to be pacifist. They couldn't defend the Republic if they were.

You are making a big mistake about the direction the Jedi come from.

I know exactly where they come from. They come from the macho stance that you can kill violence if you just hit back with enough violence. It's the reason the jedi vs. sith thing never ends -- a mirror reflection of our own real world, wherein people think that it's better to fight and fight and fight than try the harder ... less "fast" ... but more powerful ... solution of peace. The funny thing is, Yoda said it himself, but he didn't quite follow his own reasoning to its final conclusion.

Edit: And don't get me wrong -- I like plenty of violent fictional characters. They can be fun and interesting, no question. But their way can never ... EVER ... bring peace.

Originally posted by Orestes
I know exactly where they come from. They come from the macho stance that you can kill violence if you just hit back with enough violence. It's the reason the jedi vs. sith thing never ends -- a mirror reflection of our own real world, wherein people thinking that it's better to fight and fight and fight than try the harder ... less "fast" ... but more powerful ... solution of peace. The funny thing is, Yoda said it himself, but he didn't quite follow his own reasoning to its final conclusion.

Edit: And don't get me wrong -- I like plenty of violent fictional characters. They can be fun and interesting, no question. But their way can never ... EVER ... bring peace.

How could they use peace then? Explain.

Could they lay silent on the road while Sith tanks go over them? Well yeah they could but what would it do?

Could the most powerful avoid the attacks of the most powerful of Sith and trying to talk them into peace? No way, maybe a few sentences but then they are toast

Could they perhaps use diplomacy? I'm sure they could try, but unless they say you get the universe and we commit suicide I don't think they are going to agree on anything.

Fact is the Jedi would have been destroyed if they were paficist, there is no way they can keep peace in the way you want them too. People who tried that only succeeded for a small period of time until even they had to create an army of a police force or whatever. Peace is an illusion and a peaceful solution for a thousand years is hilarious. It will never happen.

Edit: Wrong it did bring peace, and how. For a thousand years no Sith challenged the Republic. Thats a peace that lasted for a thousand years. For a thousand years the Republic had no need for any real army. Because there weren't any real threats. Border conflicts and shit like that sure, but nothing really important and those things that happened well true peace can not be acquired as long as people are still alive.

That thousands of years of peace was the Sith taking a hands off approaching so they could concentrate on the motherlode of all revenge. It works.

Err, yes, Orestes, I am afraid that in Star Wars terms, they DO bring peace.

Meanwhile- after their greatest effort... the Sith are destroyed, but the Jedi endure. All the better for the Galaxy, and brought about by force of arms.

It's not macho- it's a stance they have taken as a result of enlightenment.

And it took a thousand years for the Republic to decay enough after the Sith's total defeat. They would have done it in ten years if they could. That thousand years was a testament to the success of the Jedi.

Originally posted by Deus Ex
That thousands of years of peace was the Sith taking a hands off approaching so they could concentrate on the motherlode of all revenge. It works.

It works, but it was still caused by the Jedi's use of violence. A violence that no Sith could survive... You may think Palpatine was bad but another 1000 years of war would have been worse. The Jedi's offensive ways saved the Galaxy a lot of suffering.

Ever since RotS I've regarded the Jedi belief system as flawed. It leaves open gaps in important situations and is often self-contradictory.

A Jedi is supposed to be emotionless. If that's the ideal for a Jedi, they lose the essence of what makes a sentient being. If the ideal Jedi is emotionless, 'droids would be the height of Jedi discipline.

The truth is, one cannot uphold a moral code without some sort of emotion. Emotion is what decides morality: you are pleased when you perform an act you deem "moral" and displeased or guilty when you perform an act you deem "immoral."

Even overlooking the flaws in the Code, the Jedi themselves do not strive to be emotionless. What about Obi-wan's call of "I loved you!" to Anakin? Even Yoda, the greatest of the Jedi Order, shows sadness and disappointment, such as Luke's failure in the tree on Dagobah.

As for the morality of certain Force abilities, that's just a product of flawed Jedi thinking. The Force is a tool. Its actual uses are determined by what it is; its practical uses are determined by the user.

No matter the user, the Force retains its double-form of Yin and Yang. Just as Yin complements Yang, the Light Side complements the Dark Side. Neither can exist without the other. There is not an absolute system of Good and Evil; the only true difference is in the span of abilities/attributes associated with each one.

So Force powers like Grip and Lightning are pushed into the Dark Side, because they use emotion. Apparently, Healing requires no empathy for the "patient" and is therefore a Light Side power.

But how do we know those who use the Dark Side aren't able to tap into the Light Side? In fact, have there been any purely Light powers in the movies, things we've seen the Jedi do that the Sith cannot? I sure can't remember any.

Therefore, like Palpitine said, the Dark Side is simply the other half of the Force, and a true master must know both sides. The Jedi are restricting themselves.

So in answer to the original question, yes, a "good" Jedi COULD use Lightning, but they aren't going to because of their beliefs.

Actually, the Sith's perchant for violence wiped them out at Ruusan, not the Jedi's amazing battle skills.

The Jedi are not meant to be emotionless- they are simply meant to exert control over their emotions.

Remember, the 'Code' you may have heard is a strange EU invention.

I am afraid GL does not agree with you one whit, GK- and simple Yin Yang balance is not a factor in Star Wars.

Originally posted by Deus Ex
Actually, the Sith's perchant for violence wiped them out at Ruusan, not the Jedi's amazing battle skills.

If the Jedi would not have answered with violence then there would have no battle of Ruusan just a battle of Coruscant which would basicaly mean one farmer standing up against all the Sith army's, while the Jedi sit by asking the Sith to stop. Fighting is sometimes necessary.

I agree, fighting is neccessary. But the exact opposite of the Sith would be a pacifist with no earthly concerns, since the Sith themselves are totally concerned with earthly gain.

In any case, the jedi are obviously not the exact polar opposite of the Sith, even if they oppose them.

Well, agreed- was there any reason they should have been the polar opposite?

It's more fitting to me personally. I can't really relate it any better than that. Fire directly opposes ice, light to dark, etc.

Jedi and Sith are more flip sides of the same coin than eternal opposites in some degrees.

Originally posted by Deus Ex
I agree, fighting is neccessary. But the exact opposite of the Sith would be a pacifist with no earthly concerns, since the Sith themselves are totally concerned with earthly gain.

In any case, the jedi are obviously not the exact polar opposite of the Sith, even if they oppose them.

The only thing that is polar is The Force, and this is how we differ in what to do with it, and which polarity to draw energy from..

I personally see them as a brilliant illustration of the flaw in the belief that violence can end violence for good. It never does. Sure, they win battles, but they never win the war because it CAN'T be won that way. Ghandi tried to show us this, King tried to show us this ... hell, we still haven't learned, have we? 😉

But there they are, the two opposing forces -- thesis and counter-thesis -- like Deus said, flip sides of the same coin. A very destructive coin.

And yes, there are ways to respond to violence without countering it with equal violence. I even gave examples. The jedi simply choose the faster way. The easier way. More like their sith counterparts than they care to admit, they are. 😉