Cyclops vs. Storm

Originally posted by stormfront13
yeah, i agree that iut wouldn't be a knife fight. but when she was 12, she killed a fully grown man that tried to rape her. she stole his own knife and killed him with it.

...You mean all this time that full-grown guy she killed...she did it with a knife?

Oh, man. If I was 12 and had a knife, I, too, could've killed a full-grown man that was twice my size and three times my strength.

Wow. All this time I thought she pulled some crazy moves on him. But she just stabbed him. Small women can kill very large men with knives. That's not all that astounding.

Now I'm even more convinced that Cyke could take her in hand to hand. No doubt about it.

Originally posted by stormfront13
scott has dodged storms bodyily discharged lightning, but not natural lightning. scott isn't fast enough to dodge natural lightning. his body, mind, and reflexes simply aren't fast enough to dodge natural lightning. he would need to be moving faster than 60,000 miles per second to even have a hope of dodging. his body just isn't fast enough.

2) A natural lightning would require clouds summoned by Storm and would thus not be her fastest attack, which she needs in this fight.

3) I agree with you, that Scott shouldn't be able to dodge a lightning, BUT Storm shouldn't be able to dodge his blast, which travels at the speed of light, either, and yet both did it.
So when you prohibit Scott from dodging Storm's attack, you have to prohibit Storm's dodging as well OR you accept BOTH their ability to dodge the other's blast!

Originally posted by stormfront13
yes, i realize that scott has absorbed lightning, but when she just randomly shoots it at him, and he is unprepared, and she is out to beat him, then he will get taken out. in the scenario you are talking about, she had to be careful with the energy she fed him, and cykle knew she was feeding him energy.

2) In the scenario i was talking about, Storm was gathering electricity for SEVERAL MINUTES and then released it within SECONDS into Scott...enough energy to ensure the lifesupport of a WHOLE PLANET, something Thor himself had to do before!!! Now you rate that below a randomly shot instant lightning???
What's there to regulate for Storm anyway...it's just a certain amount of electrons that pass from one body into another within a certain amount of time?!
The only parameter for her to control would have been the TIME within she "fed" Cyclops with this energy, BUT it didn't take hours or even days...NOOO, she used seconds to feed him with the energies that took her several minutes to gather!
HOW, i ask you, fits the word "careful" into this scenario???

Now we have a classic "high noon western duel" situation. Both characters can hit the other almost instantly, but one of the opponents is able to take the attack of the other without being incapacitated, if it's necessary. Who do you think has the better chance to win this fight?

In almost any other scenario i would give it to Storm, but in this one...

i

Originally posted by wannabe
1) There is no difference between a "bodily discharged" lightning and a natural lightning. Since you're using science to support your point, i will too: Electricity, no matter the source, travels ALWAYS at the same speed in a given medium, in this case air!

2) A natural lightning would require clouds summoned by Storm and would thus not be her fastest attack, which she needs in this fight.

3) I agree with you, that Scott shouldn't be able to dodge a lightning, BUT Storm shouldn't be able to dodge his blast, which travels at the speed of light, either, and yet both did it.
So when you prohibit Scott from dodging Storm's attack, you have to prohibit Storm's dodging as well OR you accept BOTH their ability to dodge the other's blast!

1) Why the hell should Scott be unprepared to take a lightning hit by Storm, when he is in a fight with Sorm, mistress of the elements??? Not much of a tactician he would be, would he?!

2) In the scenario i was talking about, Storm was gathering electricity for SEVERAL MINUTES and then released it within SECONDS into Scott...enough energy to ensure the lifesupport of a WHOLE PLANET, something Thor himself had to do before!!! Now you rate that below a randomly shot instant lightning???
What's there to regulate for Storm anyway...it's just a certain amount of electrons that pass from one body into another within a certain amount of time?!
The only parameter for her to control would have been the TIME within she "fed" Cyclops with this energy, BUT it didn't take hours or even days...NOOO, she used seconds to feed him with the energies that took her several minutes to gather!
HOW, i ask you, fits the word "careful" into this scenario???

Now we have a classic "high noon western duel" situation. Both characters can hit the other almost instantly, but one of the opponents is able to take the attack of the other without being incapacitated, if it's necessary. Who do you think has the better chance to win this fight?

In almost any other scenario i would give it to Storm, but in this one...

i

Great post.

If human form Emma Frost - who has no lightning absorption abilities - can take Storm's lightning and keep going I don't see why Cyke - whose shown an ability to absorb lightning - couldn't.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Great post.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
...You mean all this time that full-grown guy she killed...she did it with a knife?

Oh, man. If I was 12 and had a knife, I, too, could've killed a full-grown man that was twice my size and three times my strength.

Wow. All this time I thought she pulled some crazy moves on him. But she just stabbed him. Small women can kill very large men with knives. That's not all that astounding.

Now I'm even more convinced that Cyke could take her in hand to hand. No doubt about it.

she stole his own knife from him and killed him with it. you try to do that at the age of twelve, or even younger.

1) There is no difference between a "bodily discharged" lightning and a natural lightning. Since you're using science to support your point, i will too: Electricity, no matter the source, travels ALWAYS at the same speed in a given medium, in this case air!

i wasn't even trying to use science, but whatever. her own discharged electricity moves at a slower rate than natural ligthning, or at least it should or else no one would be able to dodge it. in the comics, it's always drawn at moving at a slower rate. most science doesn't apply to comics.

2) A natural lightning would require clouds summoned by Storm and would thus not be her fastest attack, which she needs in this fight.

actually, she has just summoned lightning out of clear sky instantley before. once again, most science doesn't apply in comics

3) I agree with you, that Scott shouldn't be able to dodge a lightning, BUT Storm shouldn't be able to dodge his blast, which travels at the speed of light, either, and yet both did it.
So when you prohibit Scott from dodging Storm's attack, you have to prohibit Storm's dodging as well OR you accept BOTH their ability to dodge the other's blast!

storm has already dodged scotts blasta before, that's my point. if she has dodged them easily before, what's to stop her from doing it again? do you have any proof that ot travels at the speed of light? that's bs, because then no one would be able to dodge his blasts, and many have before.

1) Why the hell should Scott be unprepared to take a lightning hit by Storm, when he is in a fight with Sorm, mistress of the elements??? Not much of a tactician he would be, would he?!

i don't know if prepared was the right term, but he couldn't dodge it was what i meant to say. his body and brain impulses just aren't fast enough to react.

2) In the scenario i was talking about, Storm was gathering electricity for SEVERAL MINUTES and then released it within SECONDS into Scott...enough energy to ensure the lifesupport of a WHOLE PLANET, something Thor himself had to do before!!! Now you rate that below a randomly shot instant lightning???

your clearly missing the point. he can't react fast enough to absorb it. it isn't always on. bishop has been caught off guard before, and cyke is no where near as good as bish when absorbing. and cyke has ben hurt by electrical attacks before, so there goes that point.

If human form Emma Frost - who has no lightning absorption abilities - can take Storm's lightning and keep going I don't see why Cyke - whose shown an ability to absorb lightning - couldn't.

that would have been a good point if storm had actually wanted to kill emma. storm just wanted to get emma off of her, so she toned down the power of the bolt. her, storm isn't gonna care what happens, so she's just gonna take one to take cyke out. look, the only outcomes are that it's a double K.O, or storm wins. there are no more alternatives.

Originally posted by stormfront13
i wasn't even trying to use science, but whatever. her own discharged electricity moves at a slower rate than natural ligthning, or at least it should or else no one would be able to dodge it. in the comics, it's always drawn at moving at a slower rate. most science doesn't apply to comics.

Originally posted by stormfront13
actually, she has just summoned lightning out of clear sky instantley before. once again, most science doesn't apply in comics

Originally posted by stormfront13
storm has already dodged scotts blasta before, that's my point. if she has dodged them easily before, what's to stop her from doing it again? do you have any proof that ot travels at the speed of light? that's bs, because then no one would be able to dodge his blasts, and many have before.

Originally posted by stormfront13
i don't know if prepared was the right term, but he couldn't dodge it was what i meant to say. his body and brain impulses just aren't fast enough to react.

Originally posted by stormfront13
your clearly missing the point. he can't react fast enough to absorb it. it isn't always on. bishop has been caught off guard before, and cyke is no where near as good as bish when absorbing. and cyke has ben hurt by electrical attacks before, so there goes that point.

Originally posted by wannabe
1) YOU came with lightning travelling at 60000 miles per second and and reaction times of Scots neural system...if that's not science?!
2) "most science does not apply to comics"...your words, and yet you use science against Cyclops, saying that he could not be able to dodge a lightning as fast as stated above etc.
3) I'm a fan of Storm as well as you are, but proclaiming that her "bodycharged" lightning is slower than her "sky borne" lightning is simply B*LLSH*T!
Your reasoning could be used for countless other heroes and their attacks and powers and is just an effect of authors trying to create drama and give us a fight that's not over after the first panel!!!
Btw...her lightning is "DRAWN at MOVING at a slower rate" in the comics????????????? Please do not humiliate yourself here, i always liked you! 🙁
Even then it's not faster or more dangerous than her other lightnings.
1) I already agreed with you that she dodged his blasts before. But Scott has dodged HER blasts as well!
2) In Ultimate X-Men Jean asked Scott, if he could write their names onto the moon (he couldn't, because the beam would dissipate in advance of reaching the moon)...would she have asked, if it would travel just at sonic or subsonic speed? Would have taken an awful lot of time till the beam reached the moon, who is 1 light second away from earth!
Even if Scott's Beam does not travel at the speed of light, do you REALLY think it is slower than the speed of sound, cause it had to be for making a difference for a human trying to dodge it.
3) No one should be able to dodge a lightning either, yet it happens in the comics.
60000m/s, light speed or sonic speed...makes no difference for people without superhuman reflexes.
I was referring to you saying that he could not absorb Storm's lightning, because he would not be prepared for a lightning in this fight. It was nothing about his reaction times, but you see...your using scientific reasoning again, which i like to do myself, but i usually do not say "most science doesn't apply to comics" in advance!
1) Scott does not need to concentrate to absorb sunlight, he does not need to concentrate to absorb electricity. Maybe he has to concentrate to take the pain of absorbing this energy, but that's it. His energy absorbing power aspect IS always on...why are you proclaiming things out of thin air, that weakens your position as a debater?!(just a hint for further discussions)
2) Scott is in pain when absorbing electricity, true, yet he managed to take enough of it to recharge the powersupply of a whole planet.

alright, i don't really feel like quoting all of this, so I'm just gonna do it all at once. I wasn't trying to make thsi debate wholey based on science, I was on;y partially using science, and the rest was based off comic facts, and common sence. the cyke dodging thing wasn't based purley on science, as much as it was common sence. going by comic facts, storms own discharged ligthning should move slower than natural lightning, or else, she would never miss her targets, and her targets wouldn't be able to dodge. scott hasn't dodged natural lightning, and from comic facts and commom sence, he wouldn't be able to. i don't think the peed of the blast counts seeing as storm has already easily dodged them before. sunlight and electricity are two different things. cykes powers are based off of absorbing sunlight, so naturally he wouldn't need to concentrate to absorb sunlight. you have no proof of his electricity absorbation is always on, and I have no proof it isn't, so going by the past, he would go down naturally. he has been hurt by plasma and electrical attacks before, so why not now? sebastion shaws and bishops absorbation is always on, and she has taken both of them down with ligthning before? cyke isn't even close to them in absorbing power, so he would naturally go down.

Originally posted by stormfront13
sebastion shaws and bishops absorbation is always on, and she has taken both of them down with ligthning before? cyke isn't even close to them in absorbing power, so he would naturally go down.

Sebastian Shaw absorbs only kinetic energy.

Bishop's absorbing is not always on. Deathbird knocked him out with energy gun from behind.

So is Cyclops now a premier energy absorber now?

Originally posted by stormfront13
alright, i don't really feel like quoting all of this, so I'm just gonna do it all at once. I wasn't trying to make thsi debate wholey based on science, I was on;y partially using science, and the rest was based off comic facts, and common sence. the cyke dodging thing wasn't based purley on science, as much as it was common sence. going by comic facts, storms own discharged ligthning should move slower than natural lightning, or else, she would never miss her targets, and her targets wouldn't be able to dodge. scott hasn't dodged natural lightning, and from comic facts and commom sence, he wouldn't be able to. i don't think the peed of the blast counts seeing as storm has already easily dodged them before. sunlight and electricity are two different things. cykes powers are based off of absorbing sunlight, so naturally he wouldn't need to concentrate to absorb sunlight. you have no proof of his electricity absorbation is always on, and I have no proof it isn't, so going by the past, he would go down naturally. he has been hurt by plasma and electrical attacks before, so why not now? sebastion shaws and bishops absorbation is always on, and she has taken both of them down with ligthning before? cyke isn't even close to them in absorbing power, so he would naturally go down.

2) That you even try to make a difference between the speed of body charged lightning and natural lightning is amazing.
That you try to reason it with common sense, because Scott never dodged a natural lightning (yeah, he became confronted with it in most of his past fights) and Storm ALWAYS strikes with it, but people have proven to be able to dodge her body charged lightning, is EVEN MORE amazing.
At the same time you proclaim, that she can produce natural lightning out of clear air as quick as the other one. Wouldn't your "common sense" dictate her to use only her natural lightning, because it's as quickly produced as the other one , but it's much faster and so never misses???

3) Yes, electricity is not Scott's primary energy source and causes him a lot of pain when he absorbs it, but he has impressively proven to be able to do it.
And whether he has to concentrate on it or not is irrelevant, because it would be rather foolish for a good tactician like him not to expect to be hit by one of Storm's "fast natural lightnings that he was never able to dodge in the past"...so he would concentrate on doing so in a clear duel, if it was necessary.
See, i can use common sense too!

Originally posted by Wynndar
So is Cyclops now a premier energy absorber now?

Btw, Stormfront...interesting that you say on this thread that Storm can take out Bishop with her lightning, while on the Bishop vs. Storm thread, when i said she could PERHAPS overload B, you said it's not going to happen and that she has to use some of her other feats to beat him.

Again:
I said that both have a devastating instant attack and Scott, in a classical "high noon western duell" situation like this, has an edge, because he has proven to be able to take lightning without being incapacitated.

Here is a scan for those who do not believe it.

Originally posted by wannabe
Here is a scan for those who do not believe it.

* cool post, hope his clears up everythin'...

* another thing, someone said on Cyke vs. Punisher thread that Cyke once blasted the moon, now here Cyke's blasts would dissipate before reaching the moon... i hope someone clears this up, thanks!

Originally posted by peejayd
* cool post, hope his clears up everythin'...

* another thing, someone said on Cyke vs. Punisher thread that Cyke once blasted the moon, now here Cyke's blasts would dissipate before reaching the moon... i hope someone clears this up, thanks!

2) The "dissipating in the atmosphere before reaching the moon" was stated by Scott himself in ULTIMATE X-Men #50.

Originally posted by wannabe
1) It's ok for me when you use science and common sense to make your point, i tend to do so myself.
What bothers me is, that you use scientific reasoning for explanation why Scott can't dodge a lightning, even though he already did, and at the same time say that it would be common sense that Storm can dodge Scott's blasts because she already did it, even though scientifically she shouldn't be able to do so either.
Why is the speed of the lightning good as an explanation for Scott's inability to dodge, EVEN THOUGH he did it in the past, whereas the speed of his blast does not count as an explanation for Storm's inability to dodge, BECAUSE Storm did it in the past???
That's complete bias, which i can understand, cause Scott sucks, but in a good debate it's only lame.

as i have already said, it's not much as science as it is common sence to explain why cyke couldn't dodge natural lightning. go look at old isues of x-men featuring storm shooting lightning out of her hands. it literally looks slower than when she summons natural lightning. and going by my version of common sence, and your version of science, no one would ever be able to dodge storms electricity, because they wouldn't be able to react fast enough. when the x-men fought spider-man in secret wars, she was only a few feet away from spidey, and she shot electricity from her hands. spidey dodged, even though they were so close. now if her electricity moves at the speed of natural lightning(60,000 miles per second) speed, he would have never been able to dodge from that close a distance. really, there are tons of examles of why storms own produced electricity and natural ligthning have different speeds in comics. yes, in the real world, they would be the same speed, but also in the real world, a person couldn't control the weather. I'm not saying that it's definite storm would dodge, but it's a possibility. that is why I think that either storm wins, or it's a doublt K.O.

Yes, electricity is not Scott's primary energy source and causes him a lot of pain when he absorbs it, but he has impressively proven to be able to do it. And whether he has to concentrate on it or not is irrelevant, because it would be rather foolish for a good tactician like him not to expect to be hit by one of Storm's "fast natural lightnings that he was never able to dodge in the past"...so he would concentrate on doing so in a clear duel, if it was necessary.

he had to prepare himself to absor the electricity. it is releveant that he has to concentrate because he will be hit before he can prepare himself to absorb the electricity. yeah, he's gonna expect to be hit by electricity, but he isn't fast enough to shoot an optic blast, then concentrate on absorbing electricity before the lightning comes.

Btw, Stormfront...interesting that you say on this thread that Storm can take out Bishop with her lightning, while on the Bishop vs. Storm thread, when i said she could PERHAPS overload B, you said it's not going to happen and that she has to use some of her other feats to beat him

the only reason i said that was because that was during the time period when everyone wa giving me shit about always saying storm wins, so i figured that if i debated against her for once, it might stop, but for the record, she could defeat him with lightning.

oh and darkcrawler, shaw absorbs electricity as well as kinetic energy

Only thing is, Storm overloaded Shaw. He already had a buttload of energy, and she just put him over the top.

That won't really be the case here. Since Cyclops will have already killed her before a lightning bolt can strike him.

And even if it does hit him, he can either very painfully absorb the attack, or he just can just hope to withstand the attack and survive.

Either way, Storm dies no matter what. He's not going to miss her in this scenario. He literally just looks at her, and she's dead.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Only thing is, Storm overloaded Shaw. He already had a buttload of energy, and she just put him over the top.

That won't really be the case here. Since Cyclops will have already killed her before a lightning bolt can strike him.

And even if it does hit him, he can either very painfully absorb the attack, or he just can just hope to withstand the attack and survive.

Either way, Storm dies no matter what. He's not going to miss her in this scenario. He literally just looks at her, and she's dead.

yeah, excatley, storm overloaded shaw, and that was my point. the comic states that her one bolt almost killed him due to the fact there was so much energy. her attack is faster, and she has less steps in order to attack. cyke isn't that fast. like i have already said, he doesn't have time to concentrate on absorbing the attack and shoot his optic blast. she has a good chance at surviving. in the past all he had to do was look at her, and she dodged his blast.

Originally posted by stormfront13
yeah, excatley, storm overloaded shaw, and that was my point. the comic states that her one bolt almost killed him due to the fact there was so much energy. her attack is faster, and she has less steps in order to attack. cyke isn't that fast. like i have already said, he doesn't have time to concentrate on absorbing the attack and shoot his optic blast. she has a good chance at surviving. in the past all he had to do was look at her, and she dodged his blast.

That's just it. She has zero chance of surviving a killing blast. It would pierce as if it were a thick spear continously impaling her. He's not going to miss.

And honestly, Storm's lightning has been shown to miss even more than Cyke's blasts. So I wouldn't try that.

He really doesn't need to concentrate though. Just look at her. His visor opens from a mere thought. And from what I can tell about it, it travels at near-light speeds. She's not going to dodge it in time. It's going to hit her square and kill her.

Cyclops has a FAR better chance of surviving her lightning than she does suriving his optic blast.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
That's just it. She has zero chance of surviving a killing blast. It would pierce as if it were a thick spear continously impaling her. He's not going to miss.

And honestly, Storm's lightning has been shown to miss even more than Cyke's blasts. So I wouldn't try that.

He really doesn't need to concentrate though. Just look at her. His visor opens from a mere thought. And from what I can tell about it, it travels at near-light speeds. She's not going to dodge it in time. It's going to hit her square and kill her.

Cyclops has a FAR better chance of surviving her lightning than she does suriving his optic blast.

only if it hits her. she has dodged worse than cykes blast and come out alive. you keep saying he's not going to miss, but he does all of the time. no, storms own created electricity has missed before, and to my knowlege her naturally summoned lightning has never missed. yeah, all storm needs to do is look at her also. how could it possibly travel at light speeds when he misses all thge time? unless everyone in marvel all of a sudden has enhanced reflexes and reaction time, then his optic blasts don't travel al light speeds, storms liughtning does however. no, if storm wants the llightning to take cyke out, then it will. he has human durability, and hs body couldn;t stand it.