ROTS Anakin VS ROTS Kenobi IF Kenobi didn't have higher ground

Originally posted by kamikazi989
Originally posted by Deus Ex
[B]Originally posted by kamikazi989
[B]How do you know Obi was backing away and Anakin wasn't pushing him back?

Because he started backpedalling the instant he started parrying. It's a defensive technique. Go study swordsmanship.

He started backpedalling right away because Anakin's attack was agressive.... man I just said that didn't I? He was backing up because he didn't want to get slice and diced like a Mandolorian salad.

Anakin, like I said, was constantly kicking and punching him forcing him to move back.

Anakin was aggressive. Anakin also didn't gain the advantage really at any one point in the fight. Obi-Wan matched him, outmaneuvered him, and in the end pwned him. Period.

Neither one of them really had the advantage. The only thing we have to work with is how it was obious Anakin was PUSHING not being lead by Obi. Obi-Wan matched him in force powers ONLY that is why Anakin hit him more times tool. And outmanuevered? I hate reiterating myself, but what did I just say? Who was supressing the whole time and who got hit?? In the end Anakin made a mistake, for obvious reasons, and got his ass handed to him because of that one mistake. That's why I did this whole scenario, what if Obi did not have the higher ground.

In the movie you can tell in Obi's eyes he was scared constantly retreating.

WTF? Now Obi-wan was scared? Please. You have no proof of this. Stop already.

Scared was an over statement. Obi was definitly suprised and overwhelmed from him. Anakin, on the other hand, was stupid but confident, he showed nothing but agressiveness.

Either Anakin has awesome offense or Obi doesn't have as strong of a defense as you may think, there was plenty of times when Anakin got hits off him.

And Obi-Wan nearly killed Anakin many times. What's your point? Do you -need- Anakin to be the better fighter or something? NG says that Anakin is a better swordsman by one level (out of the ten point system, Annie's a nine, Obi an eight. Keep in mind NG hates Obi-Wan). But even NG says that Anakin never mastered the mental aspect of fighting while Obi-Wan did. Hence, ANakin might be very powerful, but he didn't have proper control. Period.

And Obi nearly killed Anakin many times..... look at it this way... Anakin nearly killed Obi MANY more times. It was only a matter of time. I don't need for him to be a better fighter at all, it's just funny that you would overlook the obvious clue's. Im tempted to call you a Obi fan boy, what else could explain it? And is NG rating Anakin when he was Sith or not? Anakin, as a Sith was more powerful but also more stupid. Anakin didn't have control over his emotions, thats it.

And what makes you think Obi is defense oriented?

uh, the fact that he mastered form III, which is a defensive form.

What the hell is mastered form III?? Is this a fanboy made thing? Unless Lucas himself or someone who made the Star Wars Universe made up that guide, it's BS.

Didn't he offensively kill Darth Maul?

Yes, before when he practiced Form IV, which he stopped using after TPM when he saw his mentor get tooled.

Point made.

Didn't he chase Grevious down until he was cornered and finally killed him from supression?

Obi-wan defeated Grievious in saber combat by being defensive, not offensive. And the rest of the fight wasn't saber to saber, so why bother with it?

Initially he waited for Grevious to attack, the final fight Obi attacked. Offensive.

Regardless, there may be a time when there is no higher ground... then what? Obi has experience, yes.... but that's the only thing that kept him from going down faster.

I didn't think any Anakin fanboys existed. Obi-Wan trained Anakin. He knew him inside and out. He defeated him in combat. He was smart enough and resourceful enough to defeat or hold hsi own with far better opponents than Anakin Skywalker. Why are you so persistent on this?

I will admit I probably favor Anakin more, but that's not something that would alter what happened. Obi didn't teach Anakin everything he knew, Anakin also learned things on his own and practiced his swordsmanship with Yoda. You also forget, Anakin knows everything Obi knows, if not more. Obi has taught him everything he knows. I'm only persistent because I want to know why you won't admit the obvious? It's funny though, you say Obi has beaten far better opponents, remind me..... what happened with Dooku? Think man, think. What you say may seem to make sense at first, but think about before you write some of the things your writing.

Any other Jedi of Obi's age would have went down quick.

Proof of this? [/B]

A Jedi becomes more powerful in age, but that's not all that helps it. It's how strong they are initially with the force as well. Their are Jedi's out there that have power they earned from age and some experience, but Obi, for his age, is also powerful, and Anakin, for his age, is extremely powerful. [/B]

I think typing is the problem here, I thought I made many points clear but I guess not, you still question them but the answer is right there. In all honesty, right now putting up a defense doesn't even feel worth it because I think the same shit would be questioned again. But if I do, you will say "omgz0rz he doesn't know what to say so he leaves!!1!1one!"....hmmm what to do....

oh well I don't give a shit... I was just curious what people had to say about the fight, im not going to argue anymore.

Originally posted by kamikazi989
I think typing is the problem here, I thought I made many points clear but I guess not, you still question them but the answer is right there. In all honesty, right now putting up a defense doesn't even feel worth it because I think the same shit would be questioned again. But if I do, you will say "omgz0rz he doesn't know what to say so he leaves!!1!1one!"....hmmm what to do....

oh well I don't give a shit... I was just curious what people had to say about the fight, im not going to argue anymore.

Hmm, come back when you can admit the mastery of EU. Oh and:

Originally posted by kamikazi989
I think typing is the problem here, I thought I made many points clear but I guess not, you still question them but the answer is right there. In all honesty, right now putting up a defense doesn't even feel worth it because I think the same shit would be questioned again. But if I do, you will say "omgz0rz he doesn't know what to say so he leaves!!1!1one!"....hmmm what to do....

oh well I don't give a shit... I was just curious what people had to say about the fight, im not going to argue anymore.

No, the real problem here is you're arguing that the impression you've gotten from the fight (after admitting you have bias for Anakin) is that Anakin would have won in any and all other situations and he is better and Obi-Wan is a lucky chump, and then you're calling this "obvious", as though it were the absolute truth. Then you go on to argue semantic points, but you have nothing to formulate your argument on- you don't utilize EU source and you can't make a solid case for a what-if based one what we ALL saw in the movie. You even went so far as to say that Obi-Wan taught Anakin everything Obi knew, and Anakin knows everything Obi-Wan can do, etc. and even learned from other sources and Yoda (!) but Obi-Wan must be in the absolute dark about Anakin, hence why he was crapping his pants on Mustafar. That is basically the impression I got of your latter half of your argument.

You're doing everything you can to pull strings to make Anakin look badass. Well, no need. Anakin is pretty badass. He probably would have been amazingly über. But by ROTS, he wasn't ready yet. He lost. He would more likely than not lose in another scenario. And your argument needs work.

About, anakin and obi wan knowing each others moves, doesnt that require a force bond of some sort? Yet people have said that when you turn to the dark side you cloud that sight, so wouldent obi wan and anakin not be able to fight exactly the same, or even predict each others moves?

Me as master debasor chooses that Anakin will break through Kenobi's defences after a while.

Originally posted by Admiral Akbar
About, anakin and obi wan knowing each others moves, doesnt that require a force bond of some sort? Yet people have said that when you turn to the dark side you cloud that sight, so wouldent obi wan and anakin not be able to fight exactly the same, or even predict each others moves?

No..

Why would it? They still always fought the same they can still read each other maybe not as well as before but even if the bond is broken the knowledge of how the other moves still exists.

Master debasor?

uhh.. huh...

Originally posted by Admiral Akbar
Master debasor?

uhh.. huh...

Uhuh! So you agree? Yeeehaaa!! 👆

Originally posted by Fishy
No..

Why would it? They still always fought the same they can still read each other maybe not as well as before but even if the bond is broken the knowledge of how the other moves still exists.

Yes, but you think they are stupid enough to do moves the other person would know. At any moment obi wan or anakin could pull off a move unexpectedly.

The dark side breaks Force bonds, but it's possible it dissolved when theywere separated and anakin made a choice to wear black and kill hapless children. In any case, such distances shouldn't disrupt sensations in the Force. The real question is, how did Obi-wan not feel Anakin's turn? Or, if he did, perhaps he didn't show it?

Good question. I dont think they had that kind of bond where they new how the other pesron was feeling, or maybe anakin was completely shuting him out when he felt depressed or unhappy.

Originally posted by Admiral Akbar
Yes, but you think they are stupid enough to do moves the other person would know. At any moment obi wan or anakin could pull off a move unexpectedly.

Hard to do, when you are used to fighting a certain way breaking that habit is hard. Besides they will know the others tricks, it may not be a set sequence of moves but they know what the other is doing when they see them move. So the other can react to that. Unless they create an entirely new attack its just not going to work like that. And its hard to do that, and even more so in a fight. Especially when you realise both of them have learned most of the moves of the style already and those are the greatest moves they can do. So doing something will else will just leave them open for an attack even it is a surprise movement.

Originally posted by Admiral Akbar
Good question. I dont think they had that kind of bond where they new how the other pesron was feeling, or maybe anakin was completely shuting him out when he felt depressed or unhappy.

Well, it might be that Obi-wan was distracted with battle too. Yoda, while meditating, was able to sense Anakin's anger and pain from across the galaxy. But I suppose when Anakin went evil, Obi-Wan was fighting Grievious, helping in the war effort, and then being shot at by his troops. I suppose by the time a feeling had the chance to catch up to him, it was too late.

So perhaps I answered my own question.

Originally posted by Deus Ex
Well, it might be that Obi-wan was distracted with battle too. Yoda, while meditating, was able to sense Anakin's anger and pain from across the galaxy. But I suppose when Anakin went evil, Obi-Wan was fighting Grievious, helping in the war effort, and then being shot at by his troops. I suppose by the time a feeling had the chance to catch up to him, it was too late.

So perhaps I answered my own question.

Well yeah, he may have thought Anakin for dead, and i'm pretty sure he would not want to believe it. He didn't even want to believe it when he was on Mustufar and saw Anakin do what he did. Only at the end did he admit to it. And even then he had a damn hard time with it.

which is probably why he tells Luke that "Vader betrayed and murdered his father." Easier way of dealing with having to strike down someone you considered a brother.

Damn, this forum's slowing down. Not a single post in almost an hour.

I was just about to say the same thing. I am so bored here at work.

lol... I have been posting responses from school all day.. almost at least.

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