Nightcrawler will win this. He's not some untrained teleporter like he used to be. He knows what the hell he's doing.
There are so many ways Kurt can win.
He can:
1. Take away the shield (I dare someone to say he can't) and then pummel Cap
2. Just plan pummel Cap where his shield isn't
3. The whole teleporting limbs thing
4. Teleport Cap into a vat of acid or something, I dunno
Kurt has too many options.
Originally posted by Piedmon
What's Kurt going to do, knock him out with that famous right hook? He's nowhere near peak human strength level, and while he might be able to keep up with Cap in agility, he doesn't have the endurance or muscle power to win in a h2h fight.
But he could grab him with his tail, which is strong enough to throw an grown man in the air.
Do you guys remember that Captain America has no spider-sense or any sense of premonition? He cannot guess where Nightcrawler will pop up, THEREFORE, Nightcrawler will teleport, wait a second, pop up next to him, and teleport him somewhere that he doesn't want to be, ie, several stories up, directly in front of a giant fan, hanging over the grand canyon with only an umbrella, or any other funny situation.
Nightcrawler easily wins.
Originally posted by Metalmanx
Nightcrawler will win this. He's not some untrained teleporter like he used to be. He knows what the hell he's doing.There are so many ways Kurt can win.
He can:
1. Take away the shield (I dare someone to say he can't) and then pummel Cap
Of course he can't. That shield is an edged weapon wielded by a master. What you're saying is that an unarmed man can defeat an armed man by just taking his weapon away..... if Nightcrawler reaches for it, he's going to have to place himself right in front of Cap, and he's going to get his skull bashed the **** in.
2. Just plan pummel Cap where his shield isn't
This is especially absurd. Kurt's got a better chance of breaking his hand on Cap's armor than hurting him. If he tries to grip Cap with his tail, than he just made the fatal mistake of CONNECTING HIMSELF to Cap, for however brief a moment. A moment is all Cap needs to break Nightcrawler's skull like cheap china.
3. The whole teleporting limbs thing
Splendiferous bullshit. 616 Nightcrawler's never been able to do that to organic opponents, only to machines. We KNOW the AoA versions of the X-Men were actually better with their powers than the "mainstream," versions, because they'd had to fight their entire lives.
If an AU version of a character, who is KNOWN to be better at using his powers, preforms a feat that we have NEVER seen from the mainstream version (in this case, teleporting away organic body parts), then all Aristotlean logic used as the basis of rational thought for the last 2,000 years STRONGLY INDICATES the "mainstream" version can't.
4. Teleport Cap into a vat of acid or something, I dunno
This is on a neutral battlefield. There are no vats of lava or giant whirlblades. Nightcrawler can only teleport to a place he can see, anyway, or else he risks teleporting his foot inside a table or something.
Kurt has too many options.
Kurt's got nothing.
Originally posted by PiedmonNightcrawler is running towards Cap? He's there and gone with the shield faster than you can say BAMF.
Of course he can't. That shield is an edged weapon wielded by a master. What you're saying is that an unarmed man can defeat an armed man by just taking his weapon away..... if Nightcrawler reaches for it, he's going to have to place himself right in front of Cap, and he's going to get his skull bashed the **** in.
Originally posted by PiedmonRead above and replace "shield" with "armour". Captain America is now shieldless and armourless.
This is especially absurd. Kurt's got a better chance of breaking his hand on Cap's armor than hurting him. If he tries to grip Cap with his tail, than he just made the fatal mistake of CONNECTING HIMSELF to Cap, for however brief a moment. A moment is all Cap needs to break Nightcrawler's skull like cheap china.
Originally posted by PiedmonWhich AoA characters were so much stronger than their 616 counterparts? You speculate that AoA Nightcrawler is more powerful than 616 because he chooses to limit the amount of additional mass he takes with him in a port? Nightcrawler always chooses what additional mass he takes with him. He regularly does so. The difference between AoA and 616 is that AoA had no qualms about killing. Unless CIS is on, teleporting parts of things and people is a viable option.
Splendiferous bullshit. 616 Nightcrawler's never been able to do that to organic opponents, only to machines. We KNOW the AoA versions of the X-Men were actually better with their powers than the "mainstream," versions, because they'd had to fight their entire lives.If an AU version of a character, who is KNOWN to be better at using his powers, preforms a feat that we have NEVER seen from the mainstream version (in this case, teleporting away organic body parts), then all Aristotlean logic used as the basis of rational thought for the last 2,000 years STRONGLY INDICATES the "mainstream" version can't.
...What the hell makes him unable to teleport limbs off? It's just as easy as teleporting himself or someone else. He chooses what mass he takes with it. He can easily take off Cap's right arm, then his left, and then his head.
Easily.
And the shield and armor thing...well...Xmarks already took care of that now, didn't he?
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Nightcrawler is running towards Cap? He's there and gone with the shield faster than you can say BAMF.
Cap's not just some bruiser. All of his physical attributes--strength, speed, stamina, agility--have been upgraded to HUMAN MAX.
Nightcrawler's speed and agility do not come from Mutant Power. They come from his training in the Bavarian circus. His acrobatics, coordination, agility--it's the product of sheer hard work, as has been noted in the pages of Excalibur issues that I own.
Let's take a look at what Marvel Directory has to say:
Other abilities: Nightcrawler is a superb athlete and an Olympic-class acrobat. He can do a standing high jump of about 8 feet. He is skilled at hand-to-hand combat and is a master at fencing, which he can even perform with his tail.
Hey, can someone remind me what it says in just about every single issue of Captain America, ever? Oh yeah.... SUPERIOR TO ANY OLYMPIC ATHLETE WHO EVER PREFORMED. Sans teleportation, Nightcrawler is by no means faster than Cap. Teleportation is the only way he can keep up. If he tries to remain in one place long enough to grab the shield, he's going to get knocked and rocked before he can react.
Read above and replace "shield" with "armour". Captain America is now shieldless and armourless.
OK, now you're just being silly. Do you really think Nightcrawler can put his hands, feet, or tail on Captain America's chest or back too fast for Cap to reach out and touch him in return? Even if you put Nightcrawler at MAX HUMAN agility, which I doubt he is, that just makes their speeds comparable. Again, if Nightcrawler tries to just grab any part of Cap, Steve will reach around and slap him upside the head so hard he gets brain trauma.
Which AoA characters were so much stronger than their 616 counterparts?
Iceman was practically a metamorph, without any 2ndary mutation. Dazzler was making hard light holograms so convincing, she was a walking danger room. Gambit killed Colossus with one card. Magneto RIPPED APOCALYPSE APART. The AoA universe was topsy-turvy PL-wise compared to 616, you can't use one to support an argument for the other!
You speculate that AoA Nightcrawler is more powerful than 616 because he chooses to limit the amount of additional mass he takes with him in a port? Nightcrawler always chooses what additional mass he takes with him. He regularly does so. The difference between AoA and 616 is that AoA had no qualms about killing. Unless CIS is on, teleporting parts of things and people is a viable option.
It's speculation the way Evolution and Gravity are theories. The fact that AoA Nightcrawler can choose to limit that amount shows he has greater CONTROL over his powers.
As for killing.... do you think Nightcrawler wasn't trying to kill Azazel? Or Belasco? There have been several times throughout the X-continuity when he was enraged enough to kill, or felt lethal force was necessary, and he NEVER DID IT.