Captain America vs Nightcrawler

Originally posted by Piedmon
Cap's not just some bruiser. All of his physical attributes--strength, speed, stamina, agility--have been upgraded to HUMAN MAX.
Nightcrawler's speed and agility do not come from Mutant Power. They come from his training in the Bavarian circus. His acrobatics, coordination, agility--it's the product of sheer hard work, as has been noted in the pages of Excalibur issues that I own.

Originally posted by Piedmon
Hey, can someone remind me what it says in just about every single issue of Captain America, ever? Oh yeah.... SUPERIOR TO ANY OLYMPIC ATHLETE WHO EVER PREFORMED. Sans teleportation, Nightcrawler is by no means faster than Cap. Teleportation is the only way he can keep up. If he tries to remain in one place long enough to grab the shield, he's going to get knocked and rocked before he can react.

Originally posted by Piedmon
OK, now you're just being silly. Do you really think Nightcrawler can put his hands, feet, or tail on Captain America's chest or back too fast for Cap to reach out and touch him in return? Even if you put Nightcrawler at MAX HUMAN agility, which I doubt he is, that just makes their speeds comparable. Again, if Nightcrawler tries to just grab any part of Cap, Steve will reach around and slap him upside the head so hard he gets brain trauma.

Originally posted by Piedmon
Iceman was practically a metamorph, without any 2ndary mutation. Dazzler was making hard light holograms so convincing, she was a walking danger room. Gambit killed Colossus with one card. Magneto RIPPED APOCALYPSE APART. The AoA universe was topsy-turvy PL-wise compared to 616, you can't use one to support an argument for the other!

Originally posted by Piedmon
It's speculation the way Evolution and Gravity are theories. The fact that AoA Nightcrawler can choose to limit that amount shows he has greater CONTROL over his powers.

Originally posted by Piedmon
As for killing.... do you think Nightcrawler wasn't trying to kill Azazel? Or Belasco? There have been several times throughout the X-continuity when he was enraged enough to kill, or felt lethal force was necessary, and he NEVER DID IT.

thou night crawler can be hit well teleporting. wolverine played tag with night crawler many tiems and show that now if night crawler ever atatcked him he coudl deffently get him rather easly. but thing is wolverien did get night crawler the first tiem but took a little while so captain first time would take a while for him to if he even could get night crawler and also will captain suurvive that long. I say yes

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
It's enhanced beyond that of an olympic athlete due to his mutant anatomy. Nightcrawler's agility honed to it's peak is higher than that possible for an normal human.

I have a site and issues to back up my statement. The burden of proof is on you.

Nightcrawler can appear and disappear in milliseconds. Captain America isn't a precog.

It takes longer than milliseconds for him to reach out his arm, though. If Nightcrawler just wants to noncommitally dance around Cap, he can probably do that all day. It's when he tries to move in for the strike that Cap (who is a master of Judo, a defensive style, btw) would take him out.

Magneto was less powerful in AoA.

Bull hockey. 616 Magneto sucks 616 Apoc's blue metal cock.

Because he never limits what he teleports with him? Oh wait he has in fact he does it all the time. If he stands on a table he doesn't have to teleport the table with him. If someone holds him he can teleport himself and his clothing without teleporting the person. Parts of things?

An inert slab of wood and living tissue aren't the same.

He teleported part of Nimrod.

Nimrod is a robot. He's not held together by a living will. He was put together from seperate components. A human being is one package, all the organs grew together from the original zygote. In the world of comic pseudoscience, that would be more than reason enough to declare humans more "cohesive," than robots. It would take much more control over his powers to disassemble a human than an unliving robot.

Last I recall killing is anathema to NC.

He wouldn't just do it for revenge, but at the same time he's not Vash the Stampede. I think Kurt would kill an enemy if he felt it the only way to save his friends, or the world, or both.

kurt helped wolverine kill a whole bunch of demonds befor

Did he grab their heads and teleport away?

Well, did he?

no he teleported wolverine to them and stuff he actuly never killed one

Originally posted by Piedmon
I have a site and issues to back up my statement. The burden of proof is on you.

Originally posted by Piedmon
It takes longer than milliseconds for him to reach out his arm, though. If Nightcrawler just wants to noncommitally dance around Cap, he can probably do that all day. It's when he tries to move in for the strike that Cap (who is a master of Judo, a defensive style, btw) would take him out.

Originally posted by Piedmon
Bull hockey. 616 Magneto sucks 616 Apoc's blue metal cock.

Originally posted by Piedmon
An inert slab of wood and living tissue aren't the same.
Nimrod is a robot. He's not held together by a living will. He was put together from seperate components. A human being is one package, all the organs grew together from the original zygote. In the world of comic pseudoscience, that would be more than reason enough to declare humans more "cohesive," than robots. It would take much more control over his powers to disassemble a human than an unliving robot.

Originally posted by Piedmon
He wouldn't just do it for revenge, but at the same time he's not Vash the Stampede. I think Kurt would kill an enemy if he felt it the only way to save his friends, or the world, or both.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
He has a spine that can contort beyond the ranges of normal humans. His agility is well known.

Seriously. Give me something beyond your own word.

It takes milliseconds. He saved a woman from a guillotine in "less than half a second" with "time to spare".

Think that guillotine moves faster than the bullets Cap dodged moving his way through Normandy?

AoA is more powerful than 616 Magneto. AoA was never reduced to an infant state and expended a great deal of power stopping one of Apocalypse's early assaults.

Reguardless, my point was this: AoA was an ALTERNATE UNIVERSE. These versions of the characters had markedly different experiences and were effectively different people with the same basic power (and codename.) You can't use something in one universe as evidence for another....

Captain America is held together by weak force and strong force. Not "will". Besides cells die and are replaced regularly whereas, whereas a robot maintains the same composition. If anything a human being is less cohesive.

Don't count willpower out. It's carried Cap through a lot of tougher shit than some bavarian guy who can't play the piano.

You "think" Kurt would. As part of his character he doesn't kill and he wouldn't just maim people left and right.

No, he was going at Azazel with a damn sword. He was fighting to kill the bastard. Nightcrawler is one of the more gentle X-Men by demeanor, but there have been times he fought with intention to kill. And he's never used this UNSTOPPABLE MONSTER TECHNIQUE. Only fans remember the original AoA anyway, these days. I guarantee no writer on X-Men right now, or any who are likely to be hired in the near future, would have Nightcrawler do this.

Originally posted by Piedmon
Seriously. Give me something beyond your own word.

Originally posted by Piedmon
Think that guillotine moves faster than the bullets Cap dodged moving his way through Normandy?

Originally posted by Piedmon
Reguardless, my point was this: AoA was an ALTERNATE UNIVERSE. These versions of the characters had markedly different experiences and were effectively different people with the same basic power (and codename.) You can't use something in one universe as evidence for another....

Originally posted by Piedmon
Don't count willpower out. It's carried Cap through a lot of tougher shit than some bavarian guy who can't play the piano.

Originally posted by Piedmon
No, he was going at Azazel with a damn sword. He was fighting to kill the bastard. Nightcrawler is one of the more gentle X-Men by demeanor, but there have been times he fought with intention to kill. And he's never used this UNSTOPPABLE MONSTER TECHNIQUE. Only fans remember the original AoA anyway, these days. I guarantee no writer on X-Men right now, or any who are likely to be hired in the near future, would have Nightcrawler do this.

Seriously. Give me something beyond your own word.

Well, in one X-Men comics, where they all had losed their powers, Kurt was going behind old recording of his Danger Room practice and wasn't able to pull off the same feats without his powers.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
He teleported part of Nimrod.

hmmm... didnt rogue teleport part of nimrod??? even then she had her own durability/strength added w/ colossus durability and strength. even then it hurt her. by this logic, night crawler isnt any where near as durable as them individually, let alone together... it could kill night crawler...

Originally posted by KillAll
hmmm... didnt rogue teleport part of nimrod??? even then she had her own durability/strength added w/ colossus durability and strength. even then it hurt her. by this logic, night crawler isnt any where near as durable as them individually, let alone together... it could kill night crawler...

REALLY.

Wow guys, way to be comprehensive....

I read that years ago. Oversight. Still his powers.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Well, in one X-Men comics, where they all had losed their powers, Kurt was going behind old recording of his Danger Room practice and wasn't able to pull off the same feats without his powers.

OK, I can buy that his agility increased (as it was an old issue of Excalibur, circa 1991.) All I was asking for was proof.

Doesn't change the outcome now that this other piece of information has come to light....

Well, good that Cap isn't as durable as Nimrod is. Or Kurt doesn't have to teleport as big piece of him.

Which mean's that he won't be as exhausted then if he would try to teleport Nimrod.

No, but neither is Nighcrawler as durable as Rogue + Colossus. And Cap can certainly take more raw punishment than Kurt.

Nightcrawler wins. He danced around X-23, who had peak human stats when she was a friggin KID. He was just chatting her up while she was swinging razor sharp adamantium claws at him. The shield flies fast, but no way does it move faster than gunfire, and Nightcrawler can dodge gunfire at point blank range. Oh, and he's taken blows with Captain Britain and kept fighting, so even if Cap gets in a hit Nightcrawler isn't just going to crumple.

Originally posted by Piedmon
HUMAN MAX.

Human max<Steel,

Nightcrawler teleported Nimrod's arms off. . .

Captain America just isn't fast enough to deal with Nightcrawler. . .

Originally posted by Creshosk
Human max<Steel,

Nightcrawler teleported Nimrod's arms off. . .

Captain America just isn't fast enough to deal with Nightcrawler. . .

So ****ing sick of that.....

It was done once by an alternate universe version....

It was done to a damn ROBOT by ROGUE who had other powers to make her extra durable.....

That is the biggest piece of crap since Wolverine shitting nuclear fire and Spiderman slapping down Firelord.

Captain Britain DID break Nightcrawler's leg. If Cap connects to Kurt's limbs, they'll break. If it's his head, that breaks too.

Originally posted by Khellendros
Nightcrawler wins. He danced around X-23, who had peak human stats when she was a friggin KID. He was just chatting her up while she was swinging razor sharp adamantium claws at him. The shield flies fast, but no way does it move faster than gunfire, and Nightcrawler can dodge gunfire at point blank range. Oh, and he's taken blows with Captain Britain and kept fighting, so even if Cap gets in a hit Nightcrawler isn't just going to crumple.

X-23 is just a brawler with speed and strength. She has training, yes, but that's no substitute for real experience. The number of fights she's wheathered are a drop in the bucket to Cap or Wolvie. I hope you're not suggesting she's some kind of credible threat.