How do you propose they prove it?
And I've loved that DigitalDreamDoor for years... such an awesome sight. Also I was reminded, Ian Gillian is an amazing singer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KnTAdfdcWI
Such a good vocal performance... actually just a great live performance in general.
Not necessarily better singers, range isn't always indicitive of quality singing. I know a lot of people with great ranges. Some people can sing very high (most of these people can't go that low though). I once did a recording of a reworded "My Immortal" for a wedding with a girl with a 4 octave range. Lots of people in choirs are technically brilliant singers, but that doesn't mean they have the edge to make them great singers.
No one said they're better. Having a higher range doesn't necessarily equate to being better.
Edit: Alpha, DigitalDreamDoor has Perry ranked the best live rock singer - not the best in the studio or "greatest". You have to go to their forums to see it.
And since when does Perry "not measure up" in technical skill?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34vF2llvnpE
Check out the range on his guy. He's high and at about a minute he goes deep. The studio recording is better at that part but you can see. He's absolutely fantastic in all ranges. It's country, but I think you'll all live through it.
Fair point, I hadn't seen that list. It's still opinion.
Originally posted by Nellinator
Not necessarily better singers, range isn't always indicitive of quality singing. I know a lot of people with great ranges. Some people can sing very high (most of these people can't go that low though). I once did a recording of a reworded "My Immortal" for a wedding with a girl with a 4 octave range. Lots of people in choirs are technically brilliant singers, but that doesn't mean they have the edge to make them great singers.
It's not exactly a realistic claim for two people on a messageboard either, which just so happens to be in a vocal debate. I believe they are doing it to lend them credibility, and Vanice has already got it wrong when he said Mercury couldn't do tenor.
Until they can prove it, I'll assume they are lying, the burden of proof is on them.
-AC
Originally posted by Nellinator
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34vF2llvnpE
Check out the range on his guy. He's high and at about a minute he goes deep. The studio recording is better at that part but you can see. He's absolutely fantastic in all ranges. It's country, but I think you'll all live through it.
He can actually sing when going very deep. The studio recording of that song really shows it off better. I can't find anything on his vocal range, so I'm unsure what it actually is...
http://youtube.com/watch?v=LFbjtmubBFQ
Wow, this guy has a six octave range apparently.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I said four octaves is not average or easy as he claims it is, I think he a liar and he cannot prove otherwise, so his claims are empty. Don't talk it if you can't walk it.That's NOT all the proof you need when you are using that claim in a debate with others. You make a claim, you prove it, that's how debates work.
Where did I say any of that, you mug? I said I don't believe Vanice has a four octave range just because he says so, if he can prove to me beyond all deniability that he does, I'll accept it, but he can't, he won't and therefore I don't believe him. That "I don't have to prove it." doesn't fly, because if he's making claims, he is obligated to back them up.
He dropped the high notes live BECAUSE of his vocal nodules, the fact is, he COULD reach them and that's why he has been recorded as doing so, he just didn't use it as often because he had medical issues that you ASSUME are his own fault. You're an idiot.
http://www.digitaldreamdoor.com/pages/best_vocalists.html
Also:
"Freddie Mercury possessed a remarkably light voice, capable of producing not only very high sounds but low sounds as well. If we were to classify him according to the classic standards he would be a light tenor or a lyric tenor. He had a most enviable vocal extension, with an outstanding range of three octaves and a major sixth, including his falsetto singing (F1 - D5).
Since falsetto is not a part of a singer's real range, his real full-voiced range was three octaves (F1 - F4).
But Freddie was actually a baritone. His lowest range, (below C2), it's not a tenor tessitura. He was a light baritone, who was actually singing in tenor's range. His passagio zone was, in fact, more similar to tenor's than a baritone's.
He usually kept his voice between G2 and G3, but his head voice could go up to Bb3 easily, like in 'Somebody to Love', where the fact that he does not make a great effort to get to that tone is highly noticeable. In various songs you can hear him reaching C4 with his head voice, but there it is evident, both by the timbre and the vibrato of his voice, that he is shouting, in a way, forcing his voice. You can download an audio segment aprox. 10 secs long, where Freddie sings in his usual range. This segment belongs to the song 'Sail Away Sweet Sister' which we have chosen because in it Freddie´s voice flows most naturally, with a very sweet and comfortable tone. The link is range.mp3
Further ahead in his career, Freddie used to keep his voice between E2 and F#3 as a comfortable range (a major third below his previous range), even though it was getting a bit harder for him to reach that note comfortably. We can notice that a certain tone is not comfortable enough for a singer when his/her voice becomes harsh, acquires much more volume and has much vibrato, these being the typical characteristics of a chest or head register taken too high. Smoking habits could have probably affected his voice, causing it to be a little deeper. (As we know, age has considerable influence on the tone of voice).
Freddie used to perform his passaggio to head voice around D3 / F#3, and to falsetto aprox. between F3 / G3, even though those notes are included in the normal and comfortable range of his head voice. In 'Exercises in Free Love' he goes down with his falsetto up to C3, which note I have found out to be his lowest in falsetto. In a descending scale he goes down from A3 to C3, but when he gets to D3 he makes a sudden change to his chest voice ( although I say "sudden", it is not so noticeable; untrained ears cannot detect it) and he ends up the phrase going down to C3, and resorting back to the falsetto, but in this zone the sound is very weak. Next, I provide you with the audio file so that you can notice the passage mentioned above: C3_exercisesinfreelove.mp3. This file needs 78 Kb, rated in 44.100 hz and in 128 kbps. It is aprox. 5 seconds long.
When Freddie spoke, he kept his voice between B1 and G2, baring in mind the particular inflections of each accent (in his case, the British accent), and the timbre and phonetic variations of each vowel. The note he kept his speaking voice in most of the time was E2.".
http://f-mercury.com.ar/eng_characteristics.htm
Maybe you should shut up and start talking sense.
If you can't prove that, don't claim it. Until you can, you're a liar. You can't just sit there saying "I'm better than Freddie Mercury." and expect to be taken seriously. You're implying you're a more skilled vocalist than Kate Bush, Freddie Mercury, Jeff Buckley, Thom Yorke etc. You probably aren't even a singer.
You cannot prove, or at least HAVE not proven, anything you've claimed, so unless you plan to, stop making those claims. "I know I can." isn't enough when you're using them in a debate.
-AC
How should we prove it to you then? Post a video on youtube? I can talk to Vanice about then, then you'll shut up, mkay?
And just because I cannot send you a big page of facts about myself doesn't mean I cannot prove it. You want me to state exactly which school I go to, where I have gone, quotes from my teachers and records of our singing to believe me?
You don't seem to know much about singing. You make a four octave range seem like a sick range, but it's not. It's very good, but for a good singer it is not very unusual. Tell me, have you had any professional singing traning? Have you been through music schools your whole life? Well guess ****ing what, I HAVE! I know several people that has a four octave range AND ABOVE, don't ****ing talk like Freddie and a few celebrities are the only ones. Where do you think singers come from, just born with the voice and then go sing?
And I can explain through here how it is possible for both me and Vanice to have such a range, and several others.
Practicing your whole life is actually very good for you if you didn't know. As you said, Freddie barley had any ****ing traning, so why would it be possible for someone on KMC to have an equal to larger range of his? NEVER HAVE I SAID I WAS A BETTER SINGER, range does not equal good singer, but I do have a larger range than Mercury, not only can I take most of his full voice tones easily, I can also go down to as low tunes as him, and keep my voice from cracking and getting sore by regular and professional traning. There are a hell of alot of singers that have a higher range than Mercury, he wasn't known for his range alone you know.....
And what the hell do you think we sing all day, twinkle twinkle little star? This is a PROFESSIONAL SINGING SCHOOL! We perform live concerts as well as study on how to exactly evolve into even greater singers and musicians, we have sung Queen songs among others.
And I don't ****ing care if Freddie had vocal problems, doesn't make him any better, doesn't make his range better, the ONLY thing it does is showing that he had a bad technique.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69Nkur0XjG4
Hear that guy, he performs an A4 in full voice live. That is 6 notes above Freddie's highest he has performed in full voice. And the comments below are not even THAT impressed, they say it is very, very possible for singers, and I KNOW IT IS! Freddie did not have an incredible full voice range, neither was his falsetto any special, not at all that high, it actually never reached above this guys A4. So stop talking, now.
Originally posted by kamikz
How should we prove it to you then? Post a video on youtube? I can talk to Vanice about then, then you'll shut up, mkay?
And just because I cannot send you a big page of facts about myself doesn't mean I cannot prove it. You want me to state exactly which school I go to, where I have gone, quotes from my teachers and records of our singing to believe me?
Anyone can type anything on the internet, so if you think I'm going to give you credibility or credit in this debate just because you are saying things, then you are quite clearly mistaken and an idiot.
Here; I'm Steve Perry's cousin. When we had dinner once, he told me Freddie Mercury was the best ever. Now, I don't know how I can prove that...but I know it happened, and that's all that matters.
Yes, ridiculous isn't it?
Originally posted by kamikz
You don't seem to know much about singing. You make a four octave range seem like a sick range, but it's not. It's very good, but for a good singer it is not very unusual. Tell me, have you had any professional singing traning? Have you been through music schools your whole life? Well guess ****ing what, I HAVE! I know several people that has a four octave range AND ABOVE, don't ****ing talk like Freddie and a few celebrities are the only ones. Where do you think singers come from, just born with the voice and then go sing?
Let's put things in perspective. If any Sonny Singalong can have a four octave range, why on Earth do musicologists, musicians and critics alike all revere it, or people with it? Why is it worthy of being highlighted? Why, when someone has one, does the reviewer or critic always highlight it as an accolade? If anybody in some shitty school could do it, it would mean absolutely nothing, but it doesn't.
YOU are the one who evidently knows nothing about singing, and now you're getting scared because you thought I'd roll over and accept your claims. You haven't proven all this music school bs, you haven't proven that you know all these people. Am I saying four octave ranges are impossible for anyone except those artists? No. I'm saying it's a great range and I don't believe you possess it, because I believe you're full of bs.
Where do I think singers come from? What do you mean? Do you believe they all get talent from singing school? Freddie Mercury is factual proof that this isn't the case. Look at Amy Lee from Evanescence, shit band, shit singer, classically trained, music schooled, but she'll never be as good as PJ Harvey, for all her shitty pop-operatic vocals.
This thread isn't about technique, it's about favourites.
Originally posted by kamikz
And I can explain through here how it is possible for both me and Vanice to have such a range, and several others. Practicing your whole life is actually very good for you if you didn't know. As you said, Freddie barley had any ****ing traning, so why would it be possible for someone on KMC to have an equal to larger range of his? NEVER HAVE I SAID I WAS A BETTER SINGER, range does not equal good singer, but I do have a larger range than Mercury, not only can I take most of his full voice tones easily, I can also go down to as low tunes as him, and keep my voice from cracking and getting sore by regular and professional traning. There are a hell of alot of singers that have a higher range than Mercury, he wasn't known for his range alone you know.....
I didn't say it's impossible for someone on KMC to have the range, I said I don't believe you do have it, because it's not exactly common or it wouldn't be revered as a great skill. I'll say it one more time, prove beyond any deniability that you have a four octave range, make it clear to be a fact, and I will concede.
Until you can back these claims up, stop making them.
Originally posted by kamikz
And what the hell do you think we sing all day, twinkle twinkle little star? This is a PROFESSIONAL SINGING SCHOOL! We perform live concerts as well as study on how to exactly evolve into even greater singers and musicians, we have sung Queen songs among others.
Who are you trying to convince or impress? If it's me, it's not working. Prove it or lose it.
Originally posted by kamikz
And I don't ****ing care if Freddie had vocal problems, doesn't make him any better, doesn't make his range better, the ONLY thing it does is showing that he had a bad technique.
He didn't have bad technique, he had remarkable technique for a man with a medical condition that caused him to sing at a level that wasn't his full potential.
Originally posted by kamikz
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69Nkur0XjG4Hear that guy, he performs an A4 in full voice live. That is 6 notes above Freddie's highest he has performed in full voice. And the comments below are not even THAT impressed, they say it is very, very possible for singers, and I KNOW IT IS! Freddie did not have an incredible full voice range, neither was his falsetto any special, not at all that high, it actually never reached above this guys A4. So stop talking, now.
You're using YouTube comments as back up? I've watched videos of Steve Vai where people have said he has bad technique, you're running on empty, dude.
Why are you showing me people who were technically better than Freddie? I've never acted like the man was the technical best ever, I'm saying I don't believe you are equal to him as far as technique goes, and you're here shitting yourself because I didn't just accept your claim.
Prove it or shut up.
-AC
There is no "best voice ever". All great singers have great voice, each have their ups and downs.
To me Michael jackson and diane ros (i think) have the best voice, and that includes the singers from the 70 and 80's.
The singers nowadays suck except for a number of great singers, They suck cuz they have to enhance their voice in the studio, and when they sing live, it sounds like a car alarm, like ashlee simpson for example
MJ sounds good when he sings in the studio because it is extremely hard to sing and dance at the same, yes their are many other singers who can do that too. And it depends weather michaels tired or not, his concert sometimes is a few days
Thats my opinion so dont bother argueing
The "best voice" derives from our opinions, theres no fact really
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Anyone can type anything on the internet, so if you think I'm going to give you credibility or credit in this debate just because you are saying things, then you are quite clearly mistaken and an idiot.Here; I'm Steve Perry's cousin. When we had dinner once, he told me Freddie Mercury was the best ever. Now, I don't know how I can prove that...but I know it happened, and that's all that matters.
Yes, ridiculous isn't it?
Let's put things in perspective. If any Sonny Singalong can have a four octave range, why on Earth do musicologists, musicians and critics alike all revere it, or people with it? Why is it worthy of being highlighted? Why, when someone has one, does the reviewer or critic always highlight it as an accolade? If anybody in some shitty school could do it, it would mean absolutely nothing, but it doesn't.
YOU are the one who evidently knows nothing about singing, and now you're getting scared because you thought I'd roll over and accept your claims. You haven't proven all this music school bs, you haven't proven that you know all these people. Am I saying four octave ranges are impossible for anyone except those artists? No. I'm saying it's a great range and I don't believe you possess it, because I believe you're full of bs.
Where do I think singers come from? What do you mean? Do you believe they all get talent from singing school? Freddie Mercury is factual proof that this isn't the case. Look at Amy Lee from Evanescence, shit band, shit singer, classically trained, music schooled, but she'll never be as good as PJ Harvey, for all her shitty pop-operatic vocals.
This thread isn't about technique, it's about favourites.
I didn't say it's impossible for someone on KMC to have the range, I said I don't believe you do have it, because it's not exactly common or it wouldn't be revered as a great skill. I'll say it one more time, prove beyond any deniability that you have a four octave range, make it clear to be a fact, and I will concede.
Until you can back these claims up, stop making them.
Who are you trying to convince or impress? If it's me, it's not working. Prove it or lose it.
He didn't have bad technique, he had remarkable technique for a man with a medical condition that caused him to sing at a level that wasn't his full potential.
You're using YouTube comments as back up? I've watched videos of Steve Vai where people have said he has bad technique, you're running on empty, dude.
Why are you showing me people who were technically better than Freddie? I've never acted like the man was the technical best ever, I'm saying I don't believe you are equal to him as far as technique goes, and you're here shitting yourself because I didn't just accept your claim.
Prove it or shut up.
-AC
You think I made up all of that, wasted my time doing all that just to prove a point? WTF, I WOULD NEVER HAVE ARGUED UNLESS I COULDN'T DO IT MYSELF DAMMIT!
I talked to Vanice, and we will post a video on youtube where we take the tunes of a 4 octave range, so we'll send it when we're done, then you can stfu.
Oh, and if you did not know, 2½ octave range is MINIMUM to be a singer. You think it is hard for a professional to reach twice that of the minimum singer? It's not, actually, we talked to five people who PROVED they had a four octave range.
When has a four octave range been described as godlike or anything? Once again, Freddie did barley have any traning, so you think he was just born with a voice 255 times better than all others? WRONG!
Freddie is not known for his range, he is known for his songs, singing and very, VERY good stage performance.
Again, we'll make the youtube video.
Impress? You've got to be kidding me. You sit here and ask for proof, and I try my best until we can post the video. Stop ****ing bitching, you're the one requesting that I prove it, and you just seem to ignore anything that you cannot hear....
Uh... Getting a sore throat and not being able to sing your highest cause it ****s up your voice IS bad technique. Why the hell do you think other singers can do it? Because they are just born with that kind of thing, or that they have better technique? I can sing with Freddie's technique, and it ****s up the throat, same with Steven Tyler.
Maybe you should actually know something about singing before spewing out all this shit. All you got is some internet sources, while I got real life experience.
Obviously they have heard higher....
Well bo-****ing-ho, you're not claiming Freddie has the best technique, yet someonehow he is automatically better than me because I'm just some guy? Abscence of proof is not proof of abscence. You said your ****ing self that he didn't have any traning, HOW CAN YOU DEVELOP A PROPER TECHNIQUE ABOUT SINGING WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE TRANING? .......... Thought so....
And that youtube video is coming up, so stop arguing until then.
Btw, you're quite a ****ing hypocrite when saying that you do not think it is impossible for someone on KMC to have a better technique then Freddie, yet you think I don't. If anything, I have proven myself MORE than "someone on KMC".
See this guy. He has a four octave range WITHOUT falsetto (you said Freddy had 3 without), and he states himself in the comments that he is not even a good singer.
Originally posted by kamikz
You think I made up all of that, wasted my time doing all that just to prove a point? WTF, I WOULD NEVER HAVE ARGUED UNLESS I COULDN'T DO IT MYSELF DAMMIT!
Prove it or drop it. You're using it as power in this debate, and it doesn't count unless you can prove it, because anybody can say anything.
Originally posted by kamikz
I talked to Vanice, and we will post a video on youtube where we take the tunes of a 4 octave range, so we'll send it when we're done, then you can stfu.
Make sure you include some way of verifying that it's you for sure, and a way of proving that you're hitting the right notes, because believe me, I will know, and so will the people who watch it with me.
If I am not 100% convinced that it's you, I am not going to accept it. You need to prove beyond deniability.
Originally posted by kamikz
Oh, and if you did not know, 2½ octave range is MINIMUM to be a singer. You think it is hard for a professional to reach twice that of the minimum singer? It's not, actually, we talked to five people who PROVED they had a four octave range.
You keep saying "We did...", but I'm not seeing any proof. You can't just say things without backing them up, it doesn't work that way. Do I think you'd lie? Yes, I think you're a bullshitter.
Originally posted by kamikz
When has a four octave range been described as godlike or anything? Once again, Freddie did barley have any traning, so you think he was just born with a voice 255 times better than all others? WRONG!
Freddie is not known for his range, he is known for his songs, singing and very, VERY good stage performance.
It's not seen as godlike, it's seen as a great range, hence why people highlight it when they review singers. They highlight Buckley's octave range, Carey's, Bush's, Yorke's etc.
I prefer Freddie Mercury's voice over a LOT of singers, but I KNOW he isn't technically the best, just technically very good. The point is, if you claim to be better than him TECHNICALLY, you better prove it.
Originally posted by kamikz
Again, we'll make the youtube video.
Make sure you prove it's you, prove you can hit the notes and everything else. I'll know if you're lying.
Originally posted by kamikz
Impress? You've got to be kidding me. You sit here and ask for proof, and I try my best until we can post the video. Stop ****ing bitching, you're the one requesting that I prove it, and you just seem to ignore anything that you cannot hear....
Then shut up until you post the video, simple as. Stop saying how many four-octave ranged singers you know without proving ANYTHING.
I'm requesting you prove it because you claimed it. Did you expect me to just believe you had a better technical ability than Freddie Mercury? Equal to Jeff Buckley? I don't, I think you're a liar.
Originally posted by kamikz
Uh... Getting a sore throat and not being able to sing your highest cause it ****s up your voice IS bad technique.
That happened because he had a medical condition that wasn't his fault.
Originally posted by kamikz
Why the hell do you think other singers can do it? Because they are just born with that kind of thing, or that they have better technique? I can sing with Freddie's technique, and it ****s up the throat, same with Steven Tyler.
Hahaha, again with the "I can..." bs.
I'm not saying Freddie's TECHNIQUE was the best or is the best, I'm saying I don't believe you are better than him in that area. I don't even have proof that you're even a singer.
Originally posted by kamikz
Maybe you should actually know something about singing before spewing out all this shit. All you got is some internet sources, while I got real life experience.
So far, all I see is someone posting on the net. As far as I know, you could be lying through your teeth to me, I haven't had proof, and no, I have more than internet sources, which is precisely why you better be genuine with the video, cos I'll be watching it with people.
Originally posted by kamikz
Obviously they have heard higher....
Heard higher? Higher what? Vocals? Than who? Steve Vai? Steve Vai the guitarist? The guy I was talking about?
Funny.
Originally posted by kamikz
Well bo-****ing-ho, you're not claiming Freddie has the best technique, yet someonehow he is automatically better than me because I'm just some guy?
He's automatically better because we factually know what he can do. You are just making claims to ME on the net. Mercury has proven himself, you haven't, and you wouldn't have had to if you didn't try to use it against me in this debate. You make claims, you back them up, those are the rules.
Originally posted by kamikz
Abscence of proof is not proof of abscence. You said your ****ing self that he didn't have any traning, HOW CAN YOU DEVELOP A PROPER TECHNIQUE ABOUT SINGING WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE TRANING? .......... Thought so....
The same way you develop any technique, you fool. Eddie Van Halen is self-taught. He has better technique than most guitarists.
Originally posted by kamikz
And that youtube video is coming up, so stop arguing until then.
Stop claiming it until then.
Originally posted by kamikz
Btw, you're quite a ****ing hypocrite when saying that you do not think it is impossible for someone on KMC to have a better technique then Freddie, yet you think I don't. If anything, I have proven myself MORE than "someone on KMC".
I think you don't because you haven't proven it. I could be wrong, I don't believe I am, though.
You haven't proven anything. You've made a lot of claims, nothing is proven at all.
Seeing as this while post was about me vs you and your claims, and nothing to do with topic, how about you and I both leave it here, and you can reply to me and continue this debate when you have the video and proof. Ok? Because all we're going to achieve is "I DO HAVE A FOUR OCTAVE RANGE!", "I don't believe you.".
-AC
I'll post the video, and that's it, just wait for it mkay. And Vanice lives a bit apart so I'll talk to him and see when I can get it done. And of course I will prove it's me, I'll say "This is for Alpha Centaury", and say my account name and all, same will Vanice. We will have a piano, so it is nothing to argue if we hit the notes or not.
And using a guitarr is nothing like singing, you actually just have to play that, most of the singing actually hurt your vocals more than strenghten them. But as I said, you won't believe me until the video, so I'll hold for this until then.
And I also think Freddie is one of the best singers I've ever heard, easily. He's amazing, but that is for his voice alone, and his carisma, this does not have nearly anything about range or technique to do. Freddie's technique sounds wonderful, but it kills your throat, that's why he cannot continue on and on like Steve Perry, who can go on for hours when using a constantly higher voice.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=G--6r6lCwbQ
C#8... amazing for a guy with a fairly deep speaking voice.