How many?

Started by Raven Guardia12 pages

Originally posted by Spelljammer
Yes, American deaths are all that matter. They are the enemy. Atleast we know whom to hate, you hate Americans and wish ill on your own people. Just shutup for once in your life kharmahdog, nobody wants to hear your hallow, liberal garbage..

Echuu, there's no point in arguing with a liberal. They don't understand ceartain human functions, they're just cold-blooded machines made from metal, wires, and carbs.. 😛

at least liberals dont suffer from the delusion that everyone is out to get us and has weapons of mass destruction. Ever read the bush doctrine?? its very pathetic, Bush is tyring to police the world. He is very arrogant.

BTW: Just because the Iraqies are our enimies doesnt mean they are all 'evil' or 'bad' or terroriest. There are innocent people over there.

Originally posted by Raven Guardia
at least liberals dont suffer from the delusion that everyone is out to get BTW: Just because the Iraqies are our enimies doesnt mean they are all 'evil' or 'bad' or terroriest. There are innocent people over there.

No kidding.... 🙄

Originally posted by debbiejo
No kidding.... 🙄

😬

Originally posted by Spelljammer
You're one of those neo-socialist "anyone but Bush!" independants who aren't REALLY independant, you just don't want to get the vicous attacks from Republicans..

Once again, blowing smoke because you can't say anything relevant.

Originally posted by Spelljammer
Where as SpellJammer is a [b]real independant and thinks for himself. [/B]

I find that suprising, because you rally around the "evil liberal" banner like Bill O'rielly disciple.

Once again you don't intelligently respond to an arguemenst or debate. You dodge and run, dodge and run.

Originally posted by KharmaDog

I find that suprising, because you rally around the "evil liberal" banner like Bill O'rielly disciple.

Bill O' Reilly said himself he's an independant. That's where SpellJammer decided he wanted to be one too.

After that, he got several others to become inependants as well.

His jock friends Jason/Jerremy.
His dad who prior to this never bothered to register and vote.

And even his little cousin Amber, who's been brain-washed by the liberal masses, is slowly starting to act like her big cousin whom she idolizes. Surely SpellJammer has to take stabs at Bush so her little impressionable mind becomes entertained, but through policy and crimilizing the left, he's offering Amber something more to life then anarchy and carbs..

For crying out loud, stop saying 'liberal' for EVERYTHING. You'd blame liberals for there being no air in space if you could.

Just stop it, it's not funny, it's not cute.

-AC

Spelljammer needs to understand that a Republican Apprentice of Bill O'Rielly is not independent only because he calls himself that...he's still a ***** ass conservative republican.....real independents are independent and do not quote Bill O'Rielly, The Patriot Act or George W. Bush as if it were the New Testament Reloaded.....

Originally posted by Spelljammer
Bill O' Reilly said himself he's an independant. That's where SpellJammer decided he wanted to be one too.

After that, he got several others to become inependants as well.

His jock friends Jason/Jerremy.
His dad who prior to this never bothered to register and vote.

And even his little cousin Amber, who's been brain-washed by the liberal masses, is slowly starting to act like her big cousin whom she idolizes. Surely SpellJammer has to take stabs at Bush so her little impressionable mind becomes entertained, but through policy and crimilizing the left, he's offering Amber something more to life then anarchy and carbs..

WTF are you talking about?

Spelljammer, you claim to be independent, yet you lap up everything the conservative right says.

Most independents don't completely disparage one political view and blame it for everything, because most independents tend to agree with certain views of both parties.

Learn something about politics, or please just shut the **** up.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
For crying out loud, stop saying 'liberal' for EVERYTHING. You'd blame liberals for there being no air in space if you could.

Just stop it, it's not funny, it's not cute.

-AC

yeah, its starting to upset me too. Liberal is just a view like conservative or independent. Liberals are not the cause for your problems and liberals certainly are not the cause for all the problems in the world.

Let's also not overlook the fact that, not to be rude, Spelljammer is quite lacking in the intelligence dept.

Even if liberals were the cause, he's using it out of context, anywhere he can.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Let's also not overlook the fact that, not to be rude, Spelljammer is quite lacking in the intelligence dept.

Even if liberals were the cause, he's using it out of context, anywhere he can.

-AC

That's because in Florida he's a genious, and hasn't been to school since second grade.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
That's because in Florida he's a genious, and hasn't been to school since second grade.

"sense second grade".......you make him look more stupid than he is.....

Originally posted by Bardock42
"[B]sense second grade".......you make him look more stupid than he is..... [/B]

LOL...that's right.

Originally posted by Bardock42
"[B]sense second grade".......you make him look more stupid than he is..... [/B]

Well SJ can be kinda ..amusing...and I think he's been doing some studing from his mom... 🙄 Wicca and all....And I've read much about that.... 😕

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Originally posted by KharmaDog
One Sargent?

Not once have I said that wars ARE fought overnight, so stop saying that. We haven't seen the full results of invading a country to influence the area around it yet because that in not a justifiable cause for war. The results that we have seen so far have not been promising as have been the results of other times in history when the U.S. has used military action to dictate the politics of another country.

Please point out these similarities.

Tactics and technology have also changed since these conflicts. Apparently you are only counting (or valuing) American deaths. Is that all that matters?

Read some stats on deaths and casualties of both Iraqi civilians and american military men. Saying that those deaths pale in comparison before we see the results of the war is very ignorant.

Far more were killed by the bombings from Allied forces planes and most have been women and children. If you are truly curious, look it up, I did a quick search and there is plenty of information.

As terrible as life under Saddam's rule was, more Iraqis have died directly due to the military actions of George Bush Sr. and Jr. then ever by Saddam Hussein. As for rape and torture, apparently they are not too safe from that anymore as american military soldiers are also participating in that.

Yes because the liberal media supports the terrorists, that must be it. As for the whole discussion on the liberal media, that has been done to death and proven a fallacy, search KMC forums for further info on that.

If your truly interested, keep searching.

One Sergeant and the soldiers under his command and working with him. Like I said, there were other documentaries I saw but I don't have a brilliant memory.

You may not have said it but you seem to be expecting it from your posting.

Similarities; think of Japan as Afghanistan and Germany as Iraq. I may be stretching a tad but it makes some sense.

I think the amount of deaths is on par with what has happened so far in the Middle East.(New governments in Iraq, Afghanistan; changes in Egypt, Lebanon, and Syria) Also; tactics have changed drastically only in the last hundred years. Yet, much tactics used today is covered in The Art of War.

I highly doubt more civilians have been killed by the allies than terrorists. Why aren't you posting that info with your reply?

How is what I said ignorant? Read my post again.....I said the deaths in the war on terror and in Iraq pale in comparison to the deaths in KOREA, WWII, and VIETNAM. I said the WHINING is pathetic because we have not seen the full results.

First off; are you saying that the first gulf war was a sham too?
And second; where is your proof?!! You keep saying that all these civilians have died from the allies instead of the terrorists yet you fail to give any sort of reliable resource to back you up.

No, you THINK it has been proven a fallacy. You still haven't given any credible excuse to the Dan Rather incident and the media's inability to report anything positive that has happened in this war.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Let's also not overlook the fact that, not to be rude, Spelljammer is quite lacking in the intelligence dept.

Even if liberals were the cause, he's using it out of context, anywhere he can.

-AC

yeah, SJ if you read this. I am not trying to be mean but it is a bit overboard 😬

Originally posted by Spelljammer
Bill O' Reilly said himself he's an independant. That's where SpellJammer decided he wanted to be one too.

This category is Most Ironic Post.

And the nominees are...

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Originally posted by Echuu
You may not have said it but you seem to be expecting it from your posting.

Please leave the mind reading to the amazing Kreskin.

Originally posted by Echuu
Similarities; think of Japan as Afghanistan and Germany as Iraq. I may be stretching a tad but it makes some sense.

How are they at all similar?

Originally posted by Echuu
I think the amount of deaths is on par with what has happened so far in the Middle East.(New governments in Iraq, Afghanistan; changes in Egypt, Lebanon, and Syria) Also; tactics have changed drastically only in the last hundred years. Yet, much tactics used today is covered in The Art of War.

Tactics have changed drastically in the last thirty years, and you thinking that the amount of deaths are acceptable is far from validation that they are acceptable.

Originally posted by Echuu
I highly doubt more civilians have been killed by the allies than terrorists. Why aren't you posting that info with your reply?

Do you honestly believe that the thousands of bombs that the U.S. has dropped on Iraqi cities since the early nineties have only killed terrorists? Of course there were no terrorists in Iraq before you invaded, you do know that don't you?

The Herald (Scotland) May 23, 2003

Civilian deaths in Iraq could be as high as 10,000 Final body count could be biggest since Vietnam war, writes IAN BRUCE

American guns, bombs and missiles killed more civilians in the recent war in Iraq than in any conflict since Vietnam, according to preliminary assessments carried out by the UN, international aid agencies and independent study groups.

Despite US boasts this was the fastest, most clinical campaign in military history, a first snapshot of "collateral damage" indicates that between 5000 and 10,000 Iraqi non-combatants died in the course of the hi-tech blitzkrieg.

Organisations such as the Red Cross, the Muslim Red Crescent, Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, and the UN are all still carrying out surveys and are reluctant to commit themselves to a final figure.

All agree, however, the toll will exceed the 3500 civilians killed in the 1991 Gulf war and the 1800 to 2000 innocent Afghans known to have perished during the 2001 invasion to oust the Taliban and wipe out al Qaeda's training camps. US government figures for Vietnam claimed that 300,000 died in the south and 65,000 in the north of that divided country.

Haidar Taie, who runs the Red Crescent's tracing department in Baghdad, said: "We just don't know for certain. But thousands are dead, thousands more injured or missing. It will take time to reach a definitive count. It was certainly a disaster for civilians caught in the fighting."

A spokesman for the Red Cross said: "We are piecing things together slowly. Hospitals and doctors were overwhelmed by the numbers arriving for treatment, so records are patchy. The indicators from those records which were kept is a high civilian bodycount and many, many more injured."

The independent US-based Campaign for Innocent Victims in Conflict (Civic) has sent out 150 volunteers to interview victims' families and record injuries and damage to property. The group is also cross-checking stories with grave sites.

Marla Ruzicka, Civic co-ordinator, said: "Our people have already found more than 1000 graves in the town of Nasariyah in the south, where fedayeen resistance meant days of heavy street fighting and air strikes, and at least another 1000 fresh graves in the Baghdad area."

The Red Crescent says there are many more civilian graves between Nasariyah and Najaf along the Euphrates River. Pro-Saddam militia made a number of stands and ambushes in built-up areas to slow the US advance on the capital and tanks, bombers and artillery were all used to dislodge them from populated areas.

Professor Mark Herold of New Hampshire University, who is also a spokesman for Iraqbodycount, a website dedicated to revealing the civilian cost of the war, says the running tally is "in excess of 5000 and still climbing".

The site draws on media and witness accounts for its figures. Reporters for news agencies based in Baghdad during the invasion are fairly consistent in claiming between 2300 and 2600 civilian victims of the US-led air attacks on the city.

There are no official figures for Iraqi military deaths, estimated at anywhere between 4000 and 7000.

A Pentagon source said: "It was inevitable there would be regrettable civilian losses. Our forces made every effort to minimise innocent casualties, often to the point of putting their own lives at risk.

"We have no hard facts and figures for such losses. Any non-governmental tally will include a lot of guesswork."

Originally posted by Echuu
you THINK it has been proven a fallacy. You still haven't given any credible excuse to the Dan Rather incident and the media's inability to report anything positive that has happened in this war.

Becausethere is nothing positive about this war.

This war was originally declared to obtain Saddam's wepons of mass destruction, of which there were none and the reaason turned out to be a fabrication. Then it was about freeing the Iraqi people, as noble as that is, there are many countries in the world waiting to be freed, I doubt that's going to happpen. Finally Bush made this war about 9/11 and terrorism, of course there has been no link to either, but people buy it anyhow.

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Originally posted by KharmaDog
Please leave the mind reading to the amazing Kreskin.

How are they at all similar?

Tactics have changed drastically in the last thirty years, and you thinking that the amount of deaths are acceptable is far from validation that they are acceptable.

Do you honestly believe that the thousands of bombs that the U.S. has dropped on Iraqi cities since the early nineties have only killed terrorists? Of course there were no terrorists in Iraq before you invaded, you do know that don't you?

Becausethere is nothing positive about this war.

This war was originally declared to obtain Saddam's wepons of mass destruction, of which there were none and the reaason turned out to be a fabrication. Then it was about freeing the Iraqi people, as noble as that is, there are many countries in the world waiting to be freed, I doubt that's going to happpen. Finally Bush made this war about 9/11 and terrorism, of course there has been no link to either, but people buy it anyhow.

Okay I will.

Think about it. I want you to consider for yourself first.

Just because tactics have changed doesn't give you a right to excuse the low amount of casualties and say they are 'high.' You also realize those 'early ninties' were Clinton right?

I never said that...I believe terrorists have killed more civilians than U.S. troops.

We are just going to have to agree to disagree. I don't wanna seem like I'm backing out but this just isn't getting anywhere. If you want PM me.

Interesting info on the casualties by the way.