Originally posted by Cinemaddiction
Considering the competition for the 1977 Oscars, it's probably the lesser of all the evils;- All the President's Men
- Bound for Glory
- Network
- Taxi Driver
- Rocky
Not really, beating out Taxi Driver is quite a feet, considering the overwheling awesomeness of that movie.
Originally posted by BackFire
Not really, beating out Taxi Driver is quite a feet, considering the overwheling awesomeness of that movie.
Not that Oscars matter, but "Rocky" winning was pure luck. John Avildsen has done NOTHING since then, aside from "The Karate Kid", where he more or less rehashed the same storyline as Rocky Balboa's, and made it a karate flick. Of the competition, I guess "Rocky" deserved to win. Scorsese hadn't made a name for himself yet, anyway.
Personally, I think both Scorsese, and "Taxi Driver" are incredibly overrated. It's just slow, dated, and the most memorable part of the movie is the end.
It being nothing but luck is no more then a baseless opinion. Perhaps it won because it was a good film? Also, your claim that most people like 4 best seems unfounded. Take a look at IMDB, the first one has a significantly higher score then 4, and that score is based off of the votes of regular folk.
I find Taxi Driver incredibly intriguing, important and enduring, even by todays standards. The climax is just that, the climax of an incredibly deep story about the alienation of a mans mind, and his slow journy into justifiable madness, it was relevent to society then, and it's relevent to society now. The subjsect matter is so global and consistant that the film will never truley be dated because it will always be relevent to society and to the history and world of cinema. But, it's not a film for everyone.
Rocky is the coolest, I've seen those movies more times than any other movie....exept for reservoir dogs.
they should have stopped at 4. IMO. drago was pure badass. The rocky series is an amazing series, my dad says everytime he went to the movies to see it, the audience stood up and started cheering, I don't care about you, but I am actually hoping for rocky 6, I finally want to stand up and cheer.
Originally posted by BackFire
It being nothing but luck is no more then a baseless opinion. Perhaps it won because it was a good film? Also, your claim that most people like 4 best seems unfounded. Take a look at IMDB, the first one has a significantly higher score then 4, and that score is based off of the votes of regular folk.I find Taxi Driver incredibly intriguing, important and enduring, even by todays standards. The climax is just that, the climax of an incredibly deep story about the alienation of a mans mind, and his slow journy into justifiable madness, it was relevent to society then, and it's relevent to society now. The subjsect matter is so global and consistant that the film will never truley be dated because it will always be relevent to society and to the history and world of cinema. But, it's not a film for everyone.
I never said "Rocky" was a bad movie. If we're talking Oscars, and the movies competition, it was lucky to have won against "Taxi Driver" in 1976. The Vietnam War had just ended, Scorsese had just released "Mean Streets", and Avildsen had never directed any other major motion picture. Stallone didn't even win for Best Actor, and while it won "Best Director", it's only other win was for EDITING?
IMDB is not something ANYONE should use to base ANYTHING on. If that's the case, you're arguement is unfair, because 26,000 people voted on "Rocky", whereas 12,500 voted on "Rocky 4"! There's no comparison! 4 had the best training scenes, the best villain, the death of Apollo Creed, and it was the most politcally charged movie of the decade! It was a cinematic allegory to the end of the Cold War, the little old USA taking down the Ruskie. I'm not the only one to hold that opinion either. I'm not stupid enough to make such a bold proclamation without it being evidenced.
As for "Taxi Driver", I'll agree it's important, but just because it's important doesn't necessarily mean that other films, before and after it, shared the same message and were more effective. There are other ways of getting across some psychos mental deterioration and disapproval of society and the government other than self-alienation and taking the law into his own hands. It's a dated movie, and I just don't think as many people can relate to it today as they can with something like "American Psycho".
I just think it's overrated, as are most Scorsese films. It's all politics in that film industry, Academy Awards, especially. But if Scorsese, after what, 30 years, has YET to win an Oscar, and is revered as the greatest living director today, then my opinion has GOT to be shared by someone of some relivance. Either he's not all he's cracked up to be, or he did something to piss a lot of people off.
Why is IMDB not something to base the popularity of a movie on? You said that Rocky 4 is most peoples favorite, IMDB, which has ratings based on peoples feelings towards a movie, suggests otherwise.
24,000 vs 12,000, it doesn't really matter, you think if rocky 4 got another 12,000 votes that it would raise it's rating to that of the original? Doubtful.
Rocky 4 maybe a fine movie, too be honest I don't remember much about it. My objection was to the claim of Rocky 4 being the most popular and the favorite in the series, which I've seen no evidence for.
Not winning the oscar doesn't mean a thing. Kubrick, who is considered by a significant amount to be one of the very best directors ever, never got an oscar either. Doesn't change his undeniable importance to cinema.
I really don't see how American Psycho can be related to by anyone, really. People can relate to travis bickle because, at one point or another, we've all felt isolated, alone and disgusted with the world around us. The film was a study in what could happen if those feelings, that everyone feels at some point or another, stayed with us consistantly. Also Travis Bickle was at one point a semi normal person, in teh beginning of the movie, he seems normal, and his psychosis slowly changes into what allows him to take justice into his own hands. It's a brilliant study, and it's relevance will never die. American Psycho, while being an awesome movie, really can't be identified with because the lead character is, from beginning to end, a blatant psycho, and nothing more. There is no slow journey into madness, at the start of the movie, we're already deep into the bowls of insanity.
Originally posted by WindDancer
I think Rocky VI should have a four man elimination battle. The main event should be:Rocky
Clubber Lang
Drago
Tommy GunAll 4 men fighting each other and the winner gets the title belt.....err...maybe not...that would be a rip off the WWE.
exactly, that's why you need to add thinder-lips.
Originally posted by BackFire
Why is IMDB not something to base the popularity of a movie on? You said that Rocky 4 is most peoples favorite, IMDB, which has ratings based on peoples feelings towards a movie, suggests otherwise.24,000 vs 12,000, it doesn't really matter, you think if rocky 4 got another 12,000 votes that it would raise it's rating to that of the original? Doubtful.
Rocky 4 maybe a fine movie, too be honest I don't remember much about it. My objection was to the claim of Rocky 4 being the most popular and the favorite in the series, which I've seen no evidence for.
Not winning the oscar doesn't mean a thing. Kubrick, who is considered by a significant amount to be one of the very best directors ever, never got an oscar either. Doesn't change his undeniable importance to cinema.
I really don't see how American Psycho can be related to by anyone, really. People can relate to travis bickle because, at one point or another, we've all felt isolated, alone and disgusted with the world around us. The film was a study in what could happen if those feelings, that everyone feels at some point or another, stayed with us consistantly. Also Travis Bickle was at one point a semi normal person, in teh beginning of the movie, he seems normal, and his psychosis slowly changes into what allows him to take justice into his own hands. It's a brilliant study, and it's relevance will never die. American Psycho, while being an awesome movie, really can't be identified with because the lead character is, from beginning to end, a blatant psycho, and nothing more. There is no slow journey into madness, at the start of the movie, we're already deep into the bowls of insanity.
I'm just saying that IMDB is like any other site that hosts fans opinions. Weither it's as important as KMC is irrelevant, because we're all the same, and opinions are equally as valuable. The thing is, Rocky 4 was voted on by half as many people, and not everyone that has even seen either movie bothers voting. It's not representitive of any collective. I've just seen overwhelmingly positive opinions of 4, given the 80's were such an important time for politcally driven movies, and "Rocky 4" actually had an intense story. The others were merely for entertainment and didn't have much to "say".
The whole Oscar deal is beyond our control. In that, I was trying to get across that yeah, Scorsese's important, as is Kubrick, but the best movie at the time may win, i.e. "Rocky", and it may come down to a popularity contest. Given the competition, I think "Rocky" was the best of a seemingly bland selection.
As for the personal relevance of "American Psycho", it's that there are probably more people with closeted fascinations that war vets angry with their surroundings nowadays. That's why so many of todays serial killers are unassuming. Nobody can tell, and we'd never suspect a rich, young guy. I just think that translates better TODAY, and will carry over more than "Taxi Driver", which while powerful, is still cemented in a 70's movement.
As for the personal relevance of "American Psycho", it's that there are probably more people with closeted fascinations that war vets angry with their surroundings nowadays. That's why so many of todays serial killers are unassuming. Nobody can tell, and we'd never suspect a rich, young guy. I just think that translates better TODAY, and will carry over more than "Taxi Driver", which while powerful, is still cemented in a 70's movement.
Well, the war vet thing is more or less irrelevent to the feelings people may have, I still think, now more then ever, people feel isolated, and often alone, and are disgusted with the events that take place around them and at times wish they could do something about them. You don't have to be a war vet to feel this way, nor relate to Travis Bickle.
Also, that's an interesting viewpoint on American Psycho, though when I say relate, I was personally referring to the character themselves and what they're feeling, rather then the theme of the film. While people are undoubtably fascinated with serial killers and such, I found that it was hard to really identifiy with Bates (or whatever his name was) in American Psycho. Simply because from the start, he was blatantly insane and showed no real signs of humanity at all through out the movie, where as Travis Bickle did, and was a much more realistic portrait of what could happen if someone lets their isolationand disgust take over.
Again, IMDB was referenced because it shows the popularity of movies. Nothing more.
Originally posted by Cringe
I'm really sorry for saying Rocky 4 was bad.I loved it and actually do think it was the best in the series.I dont know what came over me 😐
Well, now you'll need to just ex-communicate yourself from the rest of the MDF. You've brought shame and dishonor to the "Rocky" brethren.
I've seen them all and only Rocky IV stands out to me. I can't remember 1,2 or 3 very well because nothing stands out in them movies. Cinemaaddiction is right when he says there is better emotionally-charged content in Rocky IV.
Rocky V was bad but its a plausible storyline and for that I still watch it but the idea of a sixth is just silly.
Stallone! you are not a boxer or a Vietnam vet. GET OVER IT!