Originally posted by carver9
He's much faster than Grundy. Don't think that's a good example.I agree, Superman is much faster but like Ive stated before, Superman speed or Hulk invulnerability will not be the deciding factor for this fight.
I think it does mean something, a LOT imo because Hulk isn't like any other brick Superman has faced. Thinking back on it, has this version of Superman fought a high end brick yet? Off topic but Wraith reminds me of Doomsday during the end of Superman unchained #3.
I agree, it does count but reading books is different than fighting an opponent that is moving and trying to knock his chin to the left.
facepalm
Dammit Carter.
Originally posted by carver9
If I post scans of this Hulk talking, do you concede? I can tell you haven't been keeping up with the issues.
Originally posted by carver9
Its Savage.Lol...people have posted scans of Surfer flying past Galaxies but you admitted Spiderman is faster than him. Just stop ABHI. The argument I'm making, you do it all of the time...the only difference is, you use it against Surfer and Thor.
He isn't. This is a dumb, mute hulk. Savage was a child like hulk who wasn't mute.
Because travel speed=/=combat speed. If surfer had tracked a teleportation beam across the solar system and searched the whole earth to find in one minute, I would say he is faster than hulk too.
Originally posted by h1a8Reading those book does not equate to combat speed. Those books were not moving at high speed, superman did not have to catch those books or overcome any speed to read them. Those books were not moving at all. When shockwaves came at superman at light speed, he could not avoid them nor perceive them. Fighting and reading are not the same. not even close.
As long as the feat is applicable to combat.
For example, Surfer searching the world in a matter of seconds is applicable. But Surfer traveling faster than light in space is not. This is because space is large and there is more than seconds to react to an incoming star or planet in which to avoid.We use a good deal of common sense here Carv. If Superman can turn pages that fast along with process information (reactions) that damn quick then there is no logical reason to assume he can't apply that level (or near that level) of speed and reactions in battle.
If Quicksilver did all those things you named then yes it is applicable to combat. Reading EVERY medical book is far more than a single puzzle and basic traveling. Superman has traveled more than billions of times further in possibly a quicker amount of time than Quicksilver. Hell I can put together 10 puzzles before I can read an entire medical book.
Originally posted by JBL
Reading those book does not equate to combat speed. Those books were not moving at high speed, superman did not have to catch those books or overcome any speed to read them. Those books were not moving at all. When shockwaves came at superman at light speed, he could not avoid them nor perceive them. Fighting and reading are not the same. not even close.
You still have to get to the book and flip pages and this still doesn't include the mental processing power to read and understand at Superspeed. Can you turn a page in book faster than throwing a punch?
Now read the entire page and its not a picture book, its a medical book. Read the entire page with comprehension. Can you still punch faster than that? If Superman can get to and read every medical book in a matter of minutes how many punches can he throw instead?
Originally posted by JBL
Reading those book does not equate to combat speed. Those books were not moving at high speed, superman did not have to catch those books or overcome any speed to read them. Those books were not moving at all. When shockwaves came at superman at light speed, he could not avoid them nor perceive them. Fighting and reading are not the same. not even close.
Originally posted by abhilegend
I know why he wasn't speaking. Anarchronists were messing with his personality and that's why he was different every time he became hulk. You're in delusion if you think you're the only one who's reading the scans.He isn't. This is a dumb, mute hulk. Savage was a child like hulk who wasn't mute.
Because travel speed=/=combat speed. If surfer had tracked a teleportation beam across the solar system and searched the whole earth to find in one minute, I would say he is faster than hulk too.
But he is talking, that's what you are missing. That's why I asked...if I post a scan of him talking, especially saying "HULK SMASH", will you concede? I downloaded an issue today with him saying this...Indestructible Hulk #9 (or 10, can't remember off hand).
Show me the scan where he searched the world. Again, travel speed isn't combat speed. If you are giving this to one person, then you need to share the wealth.
Originally posted by DiesldudeThat shows that he can read fast. Wonder Women is faster than superman in combat speed and reaction but she cannot read as fast as superman.
You still have to get to the book and flip pages and this still doesn't include the mental processing power to read and understand at Superspeed. Can you turn a page in book faster than throwing a punch?Now read the entire page and its not a picture book, its a medical book. Read the entire page with comprehension. Can you still punch faster than that? If Superman can get to and read every medical book in a matter of minutes how many punches can he throw instead?
I think one of the main problems I have with the whole "reading fast" is the fact that it is a rather unquantifiable "feat". I mean, we don't even know how many books he read, was there a mention about how big the library was? How'd he even KNOW that he read "every medical text ever written"? Was he silly enough to waste time and go ahead to read detailed papers about genetic disorders, psychology, dental, STDs and cancers and other unrelated medical fields while Lane lay dying on the operating table just so he can CLAIM to have read every medical text ever written? Or for that matter, what powers did he use in conjunction with each other in order to achieve what he did other than speed. Fast fingers, special vision powers plus eidetic super-memory would probably be the safest bet. But exactly HOW FAST was he here? Again, unquantifiable and not really sure how it'd apply to a combat situation as we haven't seen him implement these combination of abilities at this level in combat.
We KNOW Superman is fast, I don't think anyone here contends with that fact.
Quantifying the "feat" is the problem here and the fact that these abilities have to be shown in combat at the level they've been demonstrated in order for them to be valid evidence kinda puts a damper on the whole line of logic.
Originally posted by ares834
I'm not sure why it wouldn't apply to combat but whatever.
It isn't a combat ft. Blitzing through something that isn't fighting back isn't a showing of combat.
Hulk blitzing a group of men that was moving/blitzing through a city at super speed so fast that no one could see them is a combat ft.
Originally posted by carver9
It isn't a combat ft. Blitzing through something that isn't fighting back isn't a showing of combat.Hulk blitzing a group of men that was moving/blitzing through a city at super speed so fast that no one could see them is a combat ft.
The thing is Superman didn't merely move around really fast, he processed a shit ton of information as well.
Now you're right that it's not a combat feat but it should be applicable to combat.
Originally posted by ares834
The thing is Superman didn't merely move around really fast, he processed a shit ton of information as well.Now you're right that it's not a combat feat but it should be applicable to combat.
I don't think Superman is slow at all and yes, that is a super speed showing but should it apply as a combat showing against an opponent that is trying to knock you out? No. Give me a book and I could read through it at a fair pace but when it comes to me tagging Bruce Lee, it ain't happening. Its not a combat showing. Don't get what's so difficult about providing a combat showing for Superman. The guy has been out longer than Hulks indestructible title but you all can't provide a single showing of combat minus him reading some books. WTF.
Originally posted by ares834
The thing is Superman didn't merely move around really fast, he processed a shit ton of information as well.Now you're right that it's not a combat feat but it should be applicable to combat.
It should. But does it? Has Superman ever been written using such speeds/abilties before? Aren't abilities supposed to be demonstrated in-combat before we start applying them to combat threads?
Let's take Surfer for example. The guy has shown: phasing, shrinking and black hole creation within bodies out-of-combat. While ALL these abilities individually or in combination can be quite devastating in a fight, it has been determined via consensus here that they can't be used in fights because he's never really used them in combat.
And how exactly would we be able to even quantify that "feat"? What means do we have as a way of measuring what was happening here? As what I said above, too many variables are absent to make any kind of conclusive determination.
