Originally posted by Fishy
Okay with let me just explain why I think the Rakatan will win because this is going in circles- We know that the Ratakan have a billion force users that use the Dark Side of the force and know what the force is. It would be logical for them to actually use force techniques.
Especially when you consider that the elders recognised the techniques Revan and Malak used as the use of the force. They would probably not do that unless they had a good understanding of it. And that is after god knows how many years of war and losing information and not seeing the force being used. I mean seriously the Rakatan would have to have a great understanding of the force, and by all logic be able to use the force quite well.
They recognized Revan and Malak’s techniques? Knews to me, but not that impressive. Jedi Padawans saw and understood force techniques far beyond their level. That doesn’t mean they knew how to use the techniques.
Originally posted by Fishy
If the Rakatan understand the force which they do. Then they would have been trained in the use of the force for a very long time. And they would train their children with the force because they were all force sensitive, at least at the height of their Empire. After that the plague started appearing they started losing their connection to the force and they lost the power to control the Star Forge.
I’m not sure I understand you here. They have been training for a long time? What? They haven’t shown extended life times. And once again, we don’tknow that they were all force sensitive. You’re also making the fallacy that the height of their force users power and the height of the rest of their military happened at the same time. Doesn’t seem like this with other military groups and I don’t see any evidence supporting this theory.
Originally posted by Fishy
On the Star Forge, we know that people more powerful then DS Bastila (In Kotor II), who when much weaker took out a Dark Jedi defending Revan, were not powerful enough to control the piece of shit.Again, I don’t understand what you are saying. It seems you are saying that the Dark Jedi defending Revan was more powerful than DS KOTOR 2 Bastila. Can you show that just strength in the force was all that was required to control it? It seems likely that Revan and Malak learned something that the Rakata knew when they found it, but kept it to themselves. Keeping power to themselves makes sense because they were Sith after all.
[QUOTE=5193186]Originally posted by Fishy
[B]So its very likely that the Ratakan know force techniques and were quite powerful to control the power of the Star Forge (More powerful then Kotor II DS Bastila at least).
It may be that one or two of them were. There is no evidence supporting every single Rakata being able to control Star Forge. And does being able to control the Star Forge mean that someone is good in everything else too? Mace is a better dueler than Sidious, but are his force power superior? No, they are not. Why should the Rakata being more powerful than DS Bastila because they can control something she can’t. Is Anakin Solo more powerful than NJO Luke because Anakin could control Centerpoint Station, but Luke couldn’t? No. Logical Fallacy.
Originally posted by Fishy
Now the most powerful Rakatan would have been more powerful then Bastila and would know force techniques.
No we don’t, see above.
Originally posted by Fishy
Now of course it is possible that the guy was just a bit more powerful then Bastila and all the rest was a lot lower then that, but that just sounds so incredibly stupid. You do not create a warrior race who's only purpose is to fight and enslave without training your warriors. Just think about the Mandelorians, these guys were the greatest around because of their training. The Rakatan are a warrior race, and a warrior race is trained from early on. The Rakatan would by all logic control the force quite well and be quite experienced with it.
Actually, the Mandalorians don’t help your case. Komari Vosa killed 20 Mandalorians by herself, but Jango killed her by himself. That’s a big difference from the most powerful Mandalorian to 20 regular ones. The Rakata would control the force well if they understood it well. They wouldn’t have been able to rule what they did if they used the Darkside to the extent you speak of. Blinded by their power, they would have had the flaw of the Sith, the need for war. They would have been at war with themselves more than others, thus losing against outside enemies.
Originally posted by Fishy
So seriously, you can argue this but its very likely that the Rakatan had a lot of powerful force users. And quite a few more powerful then Bastila seeing as they survived for many years and had several leaders that controlled the Star Forge.
You’re now trying to say that this one guy lived then would be alive at the peak of someone else who controled the Forge. Then I could say that the GE had every super weapon ever, or that they had all the Jedi of all time becaus ethey were the Republic once and those Jedi would come help them. See, that argument is a dumb one.
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Originally posted by Fishy
The Empire for that matter has the technology and numbers for this war. But against force users a fight is going to stay hard... No matter what, the Rakatan would just have to start playing like the Rebellion. Keeping the unknown world as base.
The Rakata are a warrior race. They wouldn’t hide from the Empire, they would try to defeat the Empire in a straight fight.
Originally posted by Fishy
The Star Forge could only be destroyed by one weapon and that weapon can be taken out by one single noob force user, the Rakatan are very likely more powerful then that they could take out the Death Star. The other Death Star just orbits above Endor doing absolutely nothing and only becoming dangerous when attacked.
Have you decided to abandon logic for this thread? First, prove the Rakata have proton torpedoes. Then, show that the Death Star is the only thing that can defeat it. The SSD can destroy it alone. There are 14 SSD. The Eclipse could take it out in a single shot from it’s superlaser. Then prove that the second Death Star could only orbit over Endor. Next, show that the Rakata’s inferior starfighers are going to stand a chance against the 7,000+ Tie Fighters the DS2 has.
Originally posted by Fishy
Now of course Thrawn is a military genius, and unfortunately I never read any of his books, but is he able to fight a guerrilla war. Its a completely different war then anything he has probably ever fought although I have to admit i'm not sure about that. Even if he is he's still going to face force users, and that is he is going to be put in command of anything important. Afterall he wasn't in command in any of the most important battles the Empire fought (Yavin, Endor). So why would he be here?
He is used to all forms of combat and is able to learn other species tatics at an incredible pace. Thrawn planned his campaign ten years into the future. When recovered by one of the Moff’s, some of the plans were able still usable, even after ten years, showing that he has intelligence capable that works better than possibly even Revan’s battle precognition. The reason he wasn’t in command at those battles was because he didn’t exist yet(lol). Seriously though, he was mapping the Unknown Regions. He was also an alien, which Palpatine had a public policy of hate towards.
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Originally posted by Fishy
Now on the technological thing.You say the Sith did it, this is of course possible but unlikely. If Revan would have put the design for his robes in the Star Forge then why would he have put a lightside version design in the Star Forge? It makes no sense he isn't on the light side. And if he did which is just really really really strange and not something that a smart person let alone stand Revan would do. And why if he did put the designs in the Star Forge was he the only one that used it.
Which perhaps shows that Revan was on the Darkside in the canon version. If you don’t like that explanation, Kreia talks about how Revan perhaps didn’t follow the Darkside at all. If true, then this still makes sense. You do know it is the Sith Way to keep power to themselves. He wouldn’t give them out to everyone, he was winning the War without his troops having them.
Originally posted by Fishy
It would only be logical if the Star Forge analysed the clothes Revan wore the first time and would then use the force to recreate it when Revan asked for it. This seems to be the only logical explanation there is.
See above. That isn’t logical.
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Originally posted by Fishy
And then you have the obvious ramming option. Create a droid, create a ship let the droid fly the ship and bam there you have it. No more SSD. I mean this could very well be done. Especially if the Rakatan manage to steal an Star Destroyer and use that technology instead of their own. SD's have hyperspace travel without the force. Probably slower then that of the Rakatan with the force, or maybe just as fast because of new technology, fact remains its going to do a lot of damage.
You haven't shown that the Rakata could build an ISD. Good god Fishy, what happened to your intelligence! Now your claiming that the Rakata with the Force could move faster than the hyperdrives that they switched over to.
Originally posted by Fishy
This isn't going to be a normal war. This is going to be completely different in all regards. The Empire will win if all they have is suddenly dropped into one system and the two will have to face each other. But thats not going to happen.
How is the Rakata going to win if that doesn't happen? Are you talking gorilla war? Thrawn would waste them. A long drawn out war? The GE has over 2000 thousand times the resources. The actual number could be closer to 102,000 times the resources.
Alright, it's side note time.
Firstly, concerning hyperdrives.
The Rakata chose to use hyperdrives before they lost their force connection. Why do I say this? Because they must have needed a lot of time to create it. You don't just pull a technology that would forever change the galaxy out off you butt, it takes time to make, a long time. Near the end of the Infinite Empire, the Rakata were in no condition to be inventing anything. It makes sense that they chose this because they were better than hyperdrives.
Next, we know that the hyperdirves they invented weren't very fast, but they still chose them over their own Force powered method of travel. How I can see that they were slow is because they were quoted in KOTOR as what brought hyperdrives to the rest of the galaxy. They weren't really fast and then slowed down in KOTOR and 600 years before the rise fo the GE. They must have always been slow. This also makes sense because the Infinite Empire spanned only 500 planets. Frequent long distance travel must have been far more difficult to keep them so limited.
I'm tired of typing. I'll put more later.
Originally posted by Darth_GlentractThe Rakata are a warrior race. They wouldn’t hide from the Empire, they would try to defeat the Empire in a straight fight.
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Wow, thanks for attacking a tiny piece of it. Fishy even said a straight brawl would result in Rakata genocide. I tried to sound like I agree by talking about how the GE ships are several times more powerful. The Rakata would try a straight fight at least once before they learned Imperial might though.